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"Unrealistic" body goals
Replies
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For some people, a flat belly is unrealistic because the belly is the last place they lose fat and to get the flatness they want they would have to drop to underweight body levels. Some women are already lean but have a small amount of natural belly pooch due to the uterus, and no amount or dieting will get rid of it, unless they want to become underweight. Most people can probably get a relatively flat stomach if they achieve a healthy weight.10
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For some people, a flat belly is unrealistic because the belly is the last place they lose fat and to get the flatness they want they would have to drop to underweight body levels. Some women are already lean but have a small amount of natural belly pooch due to the uterus, and no amount or dieting will get rid of it, unless they want to become underweight. Most people can probably get a relatively flat stomach if they achieve a healthy weight.
i lost 20 lbs 3 years ago and am 5'7 and 131 lbs. i'm post menopausal, had three abdominal surgeries, two kids and there's no way i'm going to lose that pooch. probably had i lost the weight when i was younger maybe i would have. skin at my age *58* doesn't bounce back like someone in their 30's or even forties. but i'm ok with that.7 -
For some people, a flat belly is unrealistic because the belly is the last place they lose fat and to get the flatness they want they would have to drop to underweight body levels. Some women are already lean but have a small amount of natural belly pooch due to the uterus, and no amount or dieting will get rid of it, unless they want to become underweight. Most people can probably get a relatively flat stomach if they achieve a healthy weight.
And if you're carrying around the equivalent of a five-month fetus in fibroids, it's unrealistic to think you're going to have a flat belly, either.
But it's good to have a man explain to us that it's wrong to say that it's unrealistic. /s18 -
lynn_glenmont wrote: »For some people, a flat belly is unrealistic because the belly is the last place they lose fat and to get the flatness they want they would have to drop to underweight body levels. Some women are already lean but have a small amount of natural belly pooch due to the uterus, and no amount or dieting will get rid of it, unless they want to become underweight. Most people can probably get a relatively flat stomach if they achieve a healthy weight.
And if you're carrying around the equivalent of a five-month fetus in fibroids, it's unrealistic to think you're going to have a flat belly, either.
But it's good to have a man explain to us that it's wrong to say that it's unrealistic. /s
To tell someone that they have no idea of their size, medical history, anything that its unrealistic is, in my opinion, projecting a defeatist attitude. If that's mansplaining, sorry not sorry.12 -
@IronIsMyTherapy Absolutely....mindset is a critical component of lifestyle. (Tell me I can't do something...I'll work even harder and prove you wrong. But encouragement is a plus.) Congratulations on the transformation.6
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@IronIsMyTherapy Absolutely....mindset is a critical component of lifestyle. (Tell me I can't do something...I'll work even harder and prove you wrong. But encouragement is a plus.) Congratulations on the transformation.
Well, that's illogical. If you work harder when someone tells you you can't do something, how can encouragement be a plus?4 -
Just gonna weigh in here and say that being overweight/obese most of my life, even after reaching a healthy weight, a totally flat stomach without surgery is kind of unrealistic (for me) because the loose skin always interferes I'm okay with that, though.
Granted, people often confuse "hard to achieve and maintain" with "unrealistic". Examples: Unrealistic is the teeny photoshopped waists. Unrealistic because photoshop. Hard to achieve and maintain (though not totally impossible) - flat tummy.6 -
I wish people would use "ambitious" rather than "unrealistic".
Saying that's an ambitious goal and you are going to have to work long and hard and may not ever get there is often accurate but shouldn't stop people from striving to be their best even if their best falls short of that ambitious goal.
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lynn_glenmont wrote: »@IronIsMyTherapy Absolutely....mindset is a critical component of lifestyle. (Tell me I can't do something...I'll work even harder and prove you wrong. But encouragement is a plus.) Congratulations on the transformation.
Well, that's illogical. If you work harder when someone tells you you can't do something, how can encouragement be a plus?
Read it again and you will understand - "try EVEN harder" for emphasis.
When I suffered severe knee injuries a surgeon telling me I had to accept being disabled was a huge motivator to try EVEN harder. It didn't make me try as I was already trying harder than most people would.
When another surgeon with higher ambitions for his patients congratulated me on the progress I had made far and above the norm that was an encouragement to continue and a definite plus.15 -
I train calisthenics. The possibility of me ever being able to hold a full planche or front lever is unrealistic (probably veering into impossible) due to my body weight distribution and leverages. It doesn't stop me from training for it. But if someone told me it was possible for everyone, I would have probably given up training long ago thinking there was something wrong with me. It's the psychology of it. I do like @sijomial's reference to a goal being very ambitious and you may not ever get there though. I think it conveys a similar message, but may not be as off-putting to some people.
I started a thread here where women could share what normal BMI non-photoshopped, non-posed female stomachs looked like along with personal information like % Body fat, age, # years exercising, what types of exercise they do, any medical conditions, # pregnancies, etc. so that women could see a wide range of realistic expectations. There are flat tummies and sagging tummies and everything in between.8 -
SuzySunshine99 wrote: »I agree that no one should be discouraged from their goals, as long as they are safe and healthy.
But, there is a difference between "unrealistic" and "impossible".
Using yourself as an example, you said it took you over a decade to reach your goal. You proved that it was not impossible! But, many people (I would guess a majority), don't have the patience or dedication to stick with it for so long. People get frustrated after a while, and may end up settling for something less than their ultimate goal.
I think that, for trainers and other people in the fitness business, it's important to be honest with their clients. Saying something like, "That's a great goal, but it's going to be a long process and a lot of hard work to get there. Are you up for it?"
^^^This...2 -
IronIsMyTherapy wrote: »SuzySunshine99 wrote: »IronIsMyTherapy wrote: »SuzySunshine99 wrote: »I agree that no one should be discouraged from their goals, as long as they are safe and healthy.
But, there is a difference between "unrealistic" and "impossible".
Using yourself as an example, you said it took you over a decade to reach your goal. You proved that it was not impossible! But, many people (I would guess a majority), don't have the patience or dedication to stick with it for so long. People get frustrated after a while, and may end up settling for something less than their ultimate goal.
I think that, for trainers and other people in the fitness business, it's important to be honest with their clients. Saying something like, "That's a great goal, but it's going to be a long process and a lot of hard work to get there. Are you up for it?"
That's kind of my point; they're projecting their own limitations or lack of commitment onto someone else, after that person has already identified their goal. They act as if it's almost humanly impossible when hundreds of thousands, if not millions, of people have already proved it possible. Maybe its insecurity?
It also depends on who is making the "unrealistic" comment. If it's the person's trainer, then the trainer is also trying to cover their own butt and tamp down expectations.
Ahh, I could see that. But that's a trainer that should get fired.
I think the place for realism in training is to be clear about how much effort and time is projected to reach a certain goal, not to tamp down expectations that are deemed unrealistic (unless the trainer literally does feel the result cannot be attained without surgery).
I'd expect a trainer to say "This type of goal from your starting point typically requires [x] months/years and the following consistent effort." Then I can decide whether or not I REALLY want that six pack or whatever.
If you're telling a trainer you want a six pack in three months, that's not realistic. But most trainers should be able to help most clients understand how to reach a goal given the required time and effort. Whether or not clients then want to actually DO that should be up to them.
Note: Obviously if the goal is based on photoshopped pictures or surgical alteration, that's not realistic. No trainer is going to be able to tell me how to look like a Kardashian just through diet and exercise.5 -
lynn_glenmont wrote: »@IronIsMyTherapy Absolutely....mindset is a critical component of lifestyle. (Tell me I can't do something...I'll work even harder and prove you wrong. But encouragement is a plus.) Congratulations on the transformation.
Well, that's illogical. If you work harder when someone tells you you can't do something, how can encouragement be a plus?
Read it again and you will understand - "try EVEN harder" for emphasis.
When I suffered severe knee injuries a surgeon telling me I had to accept being disabled was a huge motivator to try EVEN harder. It didn't make me try as I was already trying harder than most people would.
When another surgeon with higher ambitions for his patients congratulated me on the progress I had made far and above the norm that was an encouragement to continue and a definite plus.
But you are saying that encouragement is inferior to discouragement as a motivator. Thus it is only a plus compared to someone not talking to you at all.0 -
IronIsMyTherapy wrote: »In the last few days I've seen a girl in her 20s be told that wanting a flat belly is unrealistic and a guy be told that sub 10% bf was largely genetics.
When I started my journey, I was obese and from Day 1 I had a "unrealistic" goal physique. It took me over a decade but I achieved that goal and so have hundreds of thousands of other people so why call it unrealistic? It's only so if you believe it.
Instead of discouraging someone looking to achieve something remarkable, why not just say "go for it!"?
Thoughts?
Do you know what the background of the relationship between each trainer and these clients were? Was this an intro session, or had they been working together for months? Is it possible the trainer had become familiar with these clients' strengths and lifestyles and was starting to see that these goals "were" unrealistic for them?
I agree perhaps saying a goal is a long term goal that will require hard work, patience, and dedication and still might not be possible is a better choice of words than "unrealistic". But I'll add that we see lots of people (especially women) come here feeling like worthless failures because they can't get a flat belly or a big butt or a specific BF% and they have no idea that depending on your genetics these can be extreme and possibly "unrealistic" goals. There are a decent % of women who would need to become underweight to have the flat bellies they see in Insta posts. And maybe if someone had told them that 10 years ago they'd be happier and healthier today. Lots of folks live their entire lives feeling like crap about themselves because they are trying to live up to unrealistic expectations.
I know I'm being a bit pedantic, but hey, it's the Debate forum I don't necessarily disagree with you, just not sure it's as cut and dry as it sounds.10 -
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IronIsMyTherapy wrote: »In the last few days I've seen a girl in her 20s be told that wanting a flat belly is unrealistic and a guy be told that sub 10% bf was largely genetics.
When I started my journey, I was obese and from Day 1 I had a "unrealistic" goal physique. It took me over a decade but I achieved that goal and so have hundreds of thousands of other people so why call it unrealistic? It's only so if you believe it.
Instead of discouraging someone looking to achieve something remarkable, why not just say "go for it!"?
Thoughts?
Do you know what the background of the relationship between each trainer and these clients were? Was this an intro session, or had they been working together for months? Is it possible the trainer had become familiar with these clients' strengths and lifestyles and was starting to see that these goals "were" unrealistic for them?
I agree perhaps saying a goal is a long term goal that will require hard work, patience, and dedication and still might not be possible is a better choice of words than "unrealistic". But I'll add that we see lots of people (especially women) come here feeling like worthless failures because they can't get a flat belly or a big butt or a specific BF% and they have no idea that depending on your genetics these can be extreme and possibly "unrealistic" goals. There are a decent % of women who would need to become underweight to have the flat bellies they see in Insta posts. And maybe if someone had told them that 10 years ago they'd be happier and healthier today. Lots of folks live their entire lives feeling like crap about themselves because they are trying to live up to unrealistic expectations.
I know I'm being a bit pedantic, but hey, it's the Debate forum I don't necessarily disagree with you, just not sure it's as cut and dry as it sounds.
It wasn't a trainer and client, it was random people on MFP replying to others that had made posts. The context was there to plainly see and it made me mad! Some guy whose profile picture looked in good shape said something like "I want a sub 10% beach body" and a guy replied that it would be virtually impossible without the right genetics. Sure, it will take work but that's just BS.4 -
SuzySunshine99 wrote: »I agree that no one should be discouraged from their goals, as long as they are safe and healthy. But, there is a difference between "unrealistic" and "impossible".I wish people would use "ambitious" rather than "unrealistic".
Saying that's an ambitious goal and you are going to have to work long and hard and may not ever get there is often accurate but shouldn't stop people from striving to be their best even if their best falls short of that ambitious goal.
I have to agree with @sijomial here.
"Unrealistic" is actually quite close to "impossible." In fact, "impossible" is the first synonym listed in my thesaurus for "unrealistic."
Using "unrealistic" is saying that the goal is literally not a real one for that person--that it is imaginary, illusory, completely beyond their abilities. At least, if you are going to tell someone their goal is an impossible dream you should explain, in a very detailed and specific manner, why you think that is. And if the reason is you don't think they have it in them, then maybe keep your mouth shut.
I've accomplished quite a few things my parents/peers told me were "unrealistic." Thank god I don't listen to most people.
THANK YOU! My point is who are we to impose that on someone else's physique goals, even if we feel they really are aiming high?? There are many people that have accomplished extraordinary transformations and that person might be next! If the heaviest person on here said "I want visible abs" I'd be stoked to help them work towards that! Even if they fail to realize that goal, I guarantee they'll have formed great habits, resilience, mental toughness and improved their physique. Again, I think people have no right to dampen someone else's goals by what THEY perceive to be that person's reality. Its pathetic.8 -
lynn_glenmont wrote: »lynn_glenmont wrote: »@IronIsMyTherapy Absolutely....mindset is a critical component of lifestyle. (Tell me I can't do something...I'll work even harder and prove you wrong. But encouragement is a plus.) Congratulations on the transformation.
Well, that's illogical. If you work harder when someone tells you you can't do something, how can encouragement be a plus?
Read it again and you will understand - "try EVEN harder" for emphasis.
When I suffered severe knee injuries a surgeon telling me I had to accept being disabled was a huge motivator to try EVEN harder. It didn't make me try as I was already trying harder than most people would.
When another surgeon with higher ambitions for his patients congratulated me on the progress I had made far and above the norm that was an encouragement to continue and a definite plus.
But you are saying that encouragement is inferior to discouragement as a motivator. Thus it is only a plus compared to someone not talking to you at all.
"But you are saying that encouragement is inferior to discouragement as a motivator."
Nope didn't say that at all, where did I rank the two experiences?
It certainly can be though. the kind of encouragement in the form of mindless platitudes spouted by trainers/coaches etc. (think Peleton adverts...) do absolutely nothing for me, just noise.
I also did not project that what works for me (and @4Phoenix ) on to everyone. Motivation is personal.
I said my surgeon telling me to accept disability was a great motivator to me - those words burned for years and were a part of my drive to exceed everyone's expectations. Everyone's apart from my own.
If you don't respond the same way to someone trying to crush your ambition that's fine by me, I fully understand many people wouldn't have reacted the same way as me.
"Thus it is only a plus compared to someone not talking to you at all."
Nonsensical statement. Nothing I wrote suggests that at all.
If you can't understand something ask for clarification but I think you are just doing the written version of listening to respond.
I'll expand just in case you want to understand....
The encouragement from the second surgeon was great, gave me feedback on what I had achieved, gave me guidance on mitigating the risk of further injury and a suggestion which allowed me to take my recovery to the next level. That is the kind of support and encouragement that works for me - guidance how to achieve something as opposed to telling someone not to even aim high.
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Context is really important.
If someone is saying "I've been strength training and eating clean for 3 months now, and I don't look any different", then "your expectations are unrealistic" is pretty sensible advice.
We literally have young women posting photos of IG influencers who are clearly photoshopped into a bubble butt, tiny waist look, then posting photos of themselves as lovely but with an actual human womanly build, and asking how they can look like the influencer. It's reasonable to tell them their goal is unrealistic, though some glute gains and waist narrowing are possible.
There are cases where a particular OP has a bit of a history here, of posting about challenging goals, then popping up later with the same or a different goal but no sign of putting in the work, or even understanding what the work is (despite more patient guidance in earlier iterations that laid it out pretty clearly). (People will lose patience with that OP, or - worse - carry that impatience into other threads.)
But, yeah, sometimes we throw cold water on someone's goals, maybe for no good reason. I'm sure I've done it myself.
Adding, after reading more: The genetics/10% body fat one, I agree with you, kind of. I also understand that this is an open forum, and that some replies will be from people who burned themselves out in some way, and ended up bitter or resentful, and who can reply with negativity (and that cold-water bath) thinking that they're saving an OP from similar disappointment. It's not great, but it's human. That's one reason I think it's worthwhile, in some cases, to pile on and repeat good advice, to amplify it, and make it clearer that the negativity is a minority report.
But we're all human, and we'll disagree, for reasons good and bad, about what actually constitutes good advice (or the reverse).
It's good that you're challenging us here to think clearly about these things, and assess our reflexes, IMO.10 -
IronIsMyTherapy wrote: »IronIsMyTherapy wrote: »In the last few days I've seen a girl in her 20s be told that wanting a flat belly is unrealistic and a guy be told that sub 10% bf was largely genetics.
When I started my journey, I was obese and from Day 1 I had a "unrealistic" goal physique. It took me over a decade but I achieved that goal and so have hundreds of thousands of other people so why call it unrealistic? It's only so if you believe it.
Instead of discouraging someone looking to achieve something remarkable, why not just say "go for it!"?
Thoughts?
Do you know what the background of the relationship between each trainer and these clients were? Was this an intro session, or had they been working together for months? Is it possible the trainer had become familiar with these clients' strengths and lifestyles and was starting to see that these goals "were" unrealistic for them?
I agree perhaps saying a goal is a long term goal that will require hard work, patience, and dedication and still might not be possible is a better choice of words than "unrealistic". But I'll add that we see lots of people (especially women) come here feeling like worthless failures because they can't get a flat belly or a big butt or a specific BF% and they have no idea that depending on your genetics these can be extreme and possibly "unrealistic" goals. There are a decent % of women who would need to become underweight to have the flat bellies they see in Insta posts. And maybe if someone had told them that 10 years ago they'd be happier and healthier today. Lots of folks live their entire lives feeling like crap about themselves because they are trying to live up to unrealistic expectations.
I know I'm being a bit pedantic, but hey, it's the Debate forum I don't necessarily disagree with you, just not sure it's as cut and dry as it sounds.
It wasn't a trainer and client, it was random people on MFP replying to others that had made posts. The context was there to plainly see and it made me mad! Some guy whose profile picture looked in good shape said something like "I want a sub 10% beach body" and a guy replied that it would be virtually impossible without the right genetics. Sure, it will take work but that's just BS.
Oh, I guess I was getting further discussion in the thread confused with your OP.
Anyway, it's quite possible you saw people giving bad advice, it happens all the time, and not everyone is able to separate what's true for them with what's true for others. I would think best practice would be for you to give your own response to the OP with your experience so they could hear another side. That's the great thing about crowdsourcing in a public forum like this, you can get different points of view of how to solve your problem or reach your goal.
The other thing to remember is that some posters have a history here of asking the same questions over and over again with varying detail and some answers that might seem flippant or blunt are simply experienced posters who have seen that person's history and perceptions. Still you can always chime in with what you think is a more inspiring or useful point of view.8
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