Should I bulk?
Replies
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errollmaclean wrote: »errollmaclean wrote: »No!!!!! Keep your body fat where it is. Lower your fat intake and increase your protein. It's called main gaining and not fat gaining. Don't be fooled by the bulking myth because gains are lost during the cutting phase. Just build muscle slowly because bulking will fool you with increases water and glycogen stores.
Dietary fat intake has no relation to body fat. Dietary fat is essential for hormone production and regulation and vitamin absorption.
Also, bulking is used for a reason and not a myth. It's a way to optimize muscle gains so that when you cut, if done properly, you lose as little as that muscle as possible.
Bulking is the mentality of the 80s and 90s. Now days people gain muscle the healthy way by proper dieting and training hard. Fat has a lot of calories and should be kept at a minimal intake that's why it's important to get them from healthy sources. People bulk because it's an excuse to eat more and fool themselves and call it muscle. It leads to high blood pressure, disordinate eating, back problems, knee issues, cardio performance decreased, and at best you will have the same gains after cutting. It's just a bad form of yo yo dieting and it's not worth it. Lean gains not fat gains.
I'd recommend reading the stickied posts at the top of each forum section. These posts will give you a grasp of the basics so that you're not pointing people in the wrong direction.
Again, bulking and cutting, isn't what you think it is. It's not reckless abandon and then starving yourself. It's controlled calorie surplus to allow for maximized muscle gains, followed by a controlled calorie deficit to lose bodyfat while maintaining as much muscle mass as possible. If done correctly you can gain muscle faster than with a recomposition (main-gaining isn't a thing). That's why it exists, because it's faster than recomp. There's also a huge difference in muscle gains between someone who's natural and someone who's on gear/steroids.
The body can't just make muscle from nothing, it takes calories. Either from fat stores or extra calories.
No. Bulking and cutting is for drug users. It's not for people who want to stay healthy. You don't need to go on yo-yo diets to get muscular and lean. It's not healthy for the body or mind. Just eat healthy and maintain a healthy weight. A normal adult male can really only put on 5-10 lbs of muscle a year at most if he is really dedicated. For women it's more like 5 lbs at most. It makes no sense to be eating 200-400 calories additionally a day to gain muscle. That's overkill and most these bros out there call for way more than that. Based on the 5-10 lb/year, if you do the math, the additional calories you would need to eat daily would be like 10-20 calories more. It makes no sense what all these bros keep pushing on their website, other than they are repeating what some roidhead said.
http://www.stormbodyfitness.com/why-bulking-just-doesnt-work/
https://propanefitness.com/optimalproteinmyth/0 -
tictoerest wrote: »errollmaclean wrote: »errollmaclean wrote: »No!!!!! Keep your body fat where it is. Lower your fat intake and increase your protein. It's called main gaining and not fat gaining. Don't be fooled by the bulking myth because gains are lost during the cutting phase. Just build muscle slowly because bulking will fool you with increases water and glycogen stores.
Dietary fat intake has no relation to body fat. Dietary fat is essential for hormone production and regulation and vitamin absorption.
Also, bulking is used for a reason and not a myth. It's a way to optimize muscle gains so that when you cut, if done properly, you lose as little as that muscle as possible.
Bulking is the mentality of the 80s and 90s. Now days people gain muscle the healthy way by proper dieting and training hard. Fat has a lot of calories and should be kept at a minimal intake that's why it's important to get them from healthy sources. People bulk because it's an excuse to eat more and fool themselves and call it muscle. It leads to high blood pressure, disordinate eating, back problems, knee issues, cardio performance decreased, and at best you will have the same gains after cutting. It's just a bad form of yo yo dieting and it's not worth it. Lean gains not fat gains.
I'd recommend reading the stickied posts at the top of each forum section. These posts will give you a grasp of the basics so that you're not pointing people in the wrong direction.
Again, bulking and cutting, isn't what you think it is. It's not reckless abandon and then starving yourself. It's controlled calorie surplus to allow for maximized muscle gains, followed by a controlled calorie deficit to lose bodyfat while maintaining as much muscle mass as possible. If done correctly you can gain muscle faster than with a recomposition (main-gaining isn't a thing). That's why it exists, because it's faster than recomp. There's also a huge difference in muscle gains between someone who's natural and someone who's on gear/steroids.
The body can't just make muscle from nothing, it takes calories. Either from fat stores or extra calories.
No. Bulking and cutting is for drug users. It's not for people who want to stay healthy. You don't need to go on yo-yo diets to get muscular and lean. It's not healthy for the body or mind. Just eat healthy and maintain a healthy weight. A normal adult male can really only put on 5-10 lbs of muscle a year at most if he is really dedicated. For women it's more like 5 lbs at most. It makes no sense to be eating 200-400 calories additionally a day to gain muscle. That's overkill and most these bros out there call for way more than that. Based on the 5-10 lb/year, if you do the math, the additional calories you would need to eat daily would be like 10-20 calories more. It makes no sense what all these bros keep pushing on their website, other than they are repeating what some roidhead said.
http://www.stormbodyfitness.com/why-bulking-just-doesnt-work/
https://propanefitness.com/optimalproteinmyth/
That is terrible advice given the OPs goals. It's perfectly healthy for non drug users to bulk. If they stayed at their current weight, he would only be a slightly more muscular version of his current self. That is often not what people want. If i took your advice, I would never reach my goals.2 -
@psuLemon No, I'm referencing the cycle of "bulking and cutting". Not bulking alone. Or cutting alone.0
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tictoerest wrote: »@psuLemon No, I'm referencing the cycle of "bulking and cutting". Not bulking alone. Or cutting alone.
I stand by my statement. You are overgeneralizating without considering the factors. A good recomp can take years and consistency. It's often something people cannot sustain. The most successful recomps I have seen have taken 2 years. Aint no body got time for that *kitten*. And even then, you have to be ok with being a similar size. I know that i will need to get to the 150s to be lean enough for a full 6/8 eight pack. I can't recomp my way to gain 10-15 lbs of muscle and get up to the 170s. I can however lean bulk with a focus on whole foods to get there. Below is where i am at. I sat at 170 for years (with weight fluctuation) for years without big progress.
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tictoerest wrote: »errollmaclean wrote: »errollmaclean wrote: »No!!!!! Keep your body fat where it is. Lower your fat intake and increase your protein. It's called main gaining and not fat gaining. Don't be fooled by the bulking myth because gains are lost during the cutting phase. Just build muscle slowly because bulking will fool you with increases water and glycogen stores.
Dietary fat intake has no relation to body fat. Dietary fat is essential for hormone production and regulation and vitamin absorption.
Also, bulking is used for a reason and not a myth. It's a way to optimize muscle gains so that when you cut, if done properly, you lose as little as that muscle as possible.
Bulking is the mentality of the 80s and 90s. Now days people gain muscle the healthy way by proper dieting and training hard. Fat has a lot of calories and should be kept at a minimal intake that's why it's important to get them from healthy sources. People bulk because it's an excuse to eat more and fool themselves and call it muscle. It leads to high blood pressure, disordinate eating, back problems, knee issues, cardio performance decreased, and at best you will have the same gains after cutting. It's just a bad form of yo yo dieting and it's not worth it. Lean gains not fat gains.
I'd recommend reading the stickied posts at the top of each forum section. These posts will give you a grasp of the basics so that you're not pointing people in the wrong direction.
Again, bulking and cutting, isn't what you think it is. It's not reckless abandon and then starving yourself. It's controlled calorie surplus to allow for maximized muscle gains, followed by a controlled calorie deficit to lose bodyfat while maintaining as much muscle mass as possible. If done correctly you can gain muscle faster than with a recomposition (main-gaining isn't a thing). That's why it exists, because it's faster than recomp. There's also a huge difference in muscle gains between someone who's natural and someone who's on gear/steroids.
The body can't just make muscle from nothing, it takes calories. Either from fat stores or extra calories.
No. Bulking and cutting is for drug users. It's not for people who want to stay healthy. You don't need to go on yo-yo diets to get muscular and lean. It's not healthy for the body or mind. Just eat healthy and maintain a healthy weight. A normal adult male can really only put on 5-10 lbs of muscle a year at most if he is really dedicated. For women it's more like 5 lbs at most. It makes no sense to be eating 200-400 calories additionally a day to gain muscle. That's overkill and most these bros out there call for way more than that. Based on the 5-10 lb/year, if you do the math, the additional calories you would need to eat daily would be like 10-20 calories more. It makes no sense what all these bros keep pushing on their website, other than they are repeating what some roidhead said.
http://www.stormbodyfitness.com/why-bulking-just-doesnt-work/
https://propanefitness.com/optimalproteinmyth/
Can we see your progress pics please ?
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@psuLemon Maybe so, but I think most the bulking calculators I find on the web are way off. Sure, you need to eat a little more when you begin a weight training program. You're body requires that because it needs more energy, but how much more is the question? I think that's the part that takes some time to learn. Too much and you're just adding a lot of fat. Too little and you may not progress as fast. Me thinks this is too individualized and maybe just focus on healthier food and go from there.
One thing, it's much easier to eat less versus having to exercise calories off. If you error on the less side, it will be easier to just add more calories to your plate versus down the road having to lose a ton of body fat that will also strip away muscle. Also I was reading the higher body fat you are the slower it is to gain muscle.
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tictoerest wrote: »@psuLemon Maybe so, but I think most the bulking calculators I find on the web are way off. Sure, you need to eat a little more when you begin a weight training program. You're body requires that because it needs more energy, but how much more is the question? I think that's the part that takes some time to learn. Too much and you're just adding a lot of fat. Too little and you may not progress as fast. Me thinks this is too individualized and maybe just focus on healthier food and go from there.
One thing, it's much easier to eat less versus having to exercise calories off. If you error on the less side, it will be easier to just add more calories to your plate versus down the road having to lose a ton of body fat that will also strip away muscle. Also I was reading the higher body fat you are the slower it is to gain muscle.
I am starting to think you really don't understand the concepts of actual bulking and cutting. There are many people in this forum alone who have actually bulked with little fat gains. Given proper nutrition, a small to moderate surplus, and proper training, you can make really good gains without impacting your health. Its not just going all ham and consuming 5k calories.
And i find it much easier to eat more. Some of us are naturally big eaters. This was a smaller dinner tonight. Its 6 eggs, 1/2 bell pepper, 1/3 onion, sour cream, shredded cheese and salsa. On top of that, i also had a protein milkshake.
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errollmaclean wrote: »No!!!!! Keep your body fat where it is. Lower your fat intake and increase your protein. It's called main gaining and not fat gaining. Don't be fooled by the bulking myth because gains are lost during the cutting phase. Just build muscle slowly because bulking will fool you with increases water and glycogen stores.
Dietary fat intake has no relation to body fat. Dietary fat is essential for hormone production and regulation and vitamin absorption.
Also, bulking is used for a reason and not a myth. It's a way to optimize muscle gains so that when you cut, if done properly, you lose as little as that muscle as possible.
Bulking is the mentality of the 80s and 90s. Now days people gain muscle the healthy way by proper dieting and training hard. Fat has a lot of calories and should be kept at a minimal intake that's why it's important to get them from healthy sources. People bulk because it's an excuse to eat more and fool themselves and call it muscle. It leads to high blood pressure, disordinate eating, back problems, knee issues, cardio performance decreased, and at best you will have the same gains after cutting. It's just a bad form of yo yo dieting and it's not worth it. Lean gains not fat gains.
I started lifting about 1980. I've ran a lot of bulks in those 40+ years of lifting and I don't have any of the issues you claim.
Care to cite a source?4 -
errollmaclean wrote: »No!!!!! Keep your body fat where it is. Lower your fat intake and increase your protein. It's called main gaining and not fat gaining. Don't be fooled by the bulking myth because gains are lost during the cutting phase. Just build muscle slowly because bulking will fool you with increases water and glycogen stores.
Dietary fat intake has no relation to body fat. Dietary fat is essential for hormone production and regulation and vitamin absorption.
Also, bulking is used for a reason and not a myth. It's a way to optimize muscle gains so that when you cut, if done properly, you lose as little as that muscle as possible.
Preach3 -
UPDATE:
So after a 12 week bulk following a plan that works around 70-90% of 1RM focusing on strength and hypertrophy, this is the result:
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errollmaclean wrote: »Sounds like a good strategy to test things out. By the end you'll have more information to decide on the best direction. There's a post in the original link I posted "Which lifting program is the best for you?", which is worth a read as well.
Should I continue to bulk up? My weight has now gone up to 82.4kg From 79kg.
My diet has been fairly clean until Christmas hit then I ate a bit more in the ways of sugar though have tried to keep proteins consistent and staying in may 3000kcal target.
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errollmaclean wrote: »Sounds like a good strategy to test things out. By the end you'll have more information to decide on the best direction. There's a post in the original link I posted "Which lifting program is the best for you?", which is worth a read as well.
Should I continue to bulk up? My weight has now gone up to 82.4kg From 79kg.
My diet has been fairly clean until Christmas hit then I ate a bit more in the ways of sugar though have tried to keep proteins consistent and staying in may 3000kcal target.
Sorry this wasn’t meant to go here 😂0 -
UPDATE:
So after a 12 week bulk following a plan that works around 70-90% of 1RM focusing on strength and hypertrophy, this is the result:
Should I continue to bulk up? My weight has now gone up to 82.4kg From 79kg.
My diet has been fairly clean until Christmas hit then I ate a bit more in the ways of sugar though have tried to keep proteins consistent and staying in may 3000kcal target.0 -
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So what was this 12 week plan that you followed? At least in a front view, it doesn't look like there was much gain outside of fat gains in the stomach area. I personally, would slow cut and have protein at 1.8-2.4g/kg. I would also re-evaluate your lifting program.4
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So what was this 12 week plan that you followed? At least in a front view, it doesn't look like there was much gain outside of fat gains in the stomach area. I personally, would slow cut and have protein at 1.8-2.4g/kg. I would also re-evaluate your lifting program.
The plan I followed was the BUFF Dudes bulking plan. Started out as two weeks of three day full body focusing on mostly compound then two weeks of 4 days upper and lower days at 75% 1RM.
Then two weeks of upper lower again over 4 days at 90% 1RM.
Then two weeks of 4 day body part split (chest/triceps, back/biceps etc...) at 80% 1RM
Then two weeks of push pull days over 4 days and doing 5x 5,4,3,2,1 reps increasing weight each time between 80-90% 1RM.
Then finally two weeks of 5 days of body part split again.
I know my strengths increased somewhat but yeah
Definitely not seeing much in the way of muscle gain and only fat gains.
By slow cut you mean dropping the calories down by 100kcal a week?
My proteins intake is currently around 230g a day with 80g fat and the rest as carbs but sadly christmas was my sugar downfall so didn’t help.
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So what was this 12 week plan that you followed? At least in a front view, it doesn't look like there was much gain outside of fat gains in the stomach area. I personally, would slow cut and have protein at 1.8-2.4g/kg. I would also re-evaluate your lifting program.
The plan I followed was the BUFF Dudes bulking plan. Started out as two weeks of three day full body focusing on mostly compound then two weeks of 4 days upper and lower days at 75% 1RM.
Then two weeks of upper lower again over 4 days at 90% 1RM.
Then two weeks of 4 day body part split (chest/triceps, back/biceps etc...) at 80% 1RM
Then two weeks of push pull days over 4 days and doing 5x 5,4,3,2,1 reps increasing weight each time between 80-90% 1RM.
Then finally two weeks of 5 days of body part split again.
I know my strengths increased somewhat but yeah
Definitely not seeing much in the way of muscle gain and only fat gains.
By slow cut you mean dropping the calories down by 100kcal a week?
My proteins intake is currently around 230g a day with 80g fat and the rest as carbs but sadly christmas was my sugar downfall so didn’t help.
A deficit around 250-450 calories per day would be good. Still run their program or switch to a hypertrophy style one. In general, they are pretty knowledgeable and from what i have seen, they have pretty good programming0 -
i think you’ll need to be stronger to see benefit from a hypertrophy style program
i would suggest running a linear progress program like starting strength for three months to get your lifts up a bit0 -
Totally disagree. Yes while you may lose some when you cut after bulking, there are DEFINITE differences in physique if one bulked and gained muscle. If what you say is a myth, then how do natural bodybuilders get bigger through bulking?No!!!!! Keep your body fat where it is. Lower your fat intake and increase your protein. It's called main gaining and not fat gaining. Don't be fooled by the bulking myth because gains are lost during the cutting phase. Just build muscle slowly because bulking will fool you with increases water and glycogen stores.
A.C.E. Certified Personal and Group Fitness Trainer
IDEA Fitness member
Kickboxing Certified Instructor
Been in fitness for 30 years and have studied kinesiology and nutrition
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Please stop. Your physique doesn't seem to portray what you're trying to support. I can emphatically say that I gained pounds and pounds of muscle from a 126lbs 19 year old to a 175lbs 56 year old. And I've competed as a natural so I do know what you say is a bunch of BS.errollmaclean wrote: »No!!!!! Keep your body fat where it is. Lower your fat intake and increase your protein. It's called main gaining and not fat gaining. Don't be fooled by the bulking myth because gains are lost during the cutting phase. Just build muscle slowly because bulking will fool you with increases water and glycogen stores.
Dietary fat intake has no relation to body fat. Dietary fat is essential for hormone production and regulation and vitamin absorption.
Also, bulking is used for a reason and not a myth. It's a way to optimize muscle gains so that when you cut, if done properly, you lose as little as that muscle as possible.
Bulking is the mentality of the 80s and 90s. Now days people gain muscle the healthy way by proper dieting and training hard. Fat has a lot of calories and should be kept at a minimal intake that's why it's important to get them from healthy sources. People bulk because it's an excuse to eat more and fool themselves and call it muscle. It leads to high blood pressure, disordinate eating, back problems, knee issues, cardio performance decreased, and at best you will have the same gains after cutting. It's just a bad form of yo yo dieting and it's not worth it. Lean gains not fat gains.
A.C.E. Certified Personal and Group Fitness Trainer
IDEA Fitness member
Kickboxing Certified Instructor
Been in fitness for 30 years and have studied kinesiology and nutrition
1
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