Dietitians say counting calories bad
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I think I might be glad I do not know what TikTok is.
-Unhip
Usually it's short clips of people dancing, eating weird things, or dogs being cute . . . but apparently people are now also using it to dispense nutritional advice.
I don't know how something can be both "completely unexpected" and "inevitable," but this does it.7 -
Ohh boy, we have just had a debate about counting calories on a different thread, that went kind of hot. I stated 'counting calories is a waste of time' and I received some backlash some even felt insulted. I still believe it is in itself not enough. It is a great tool to track calorie intake to achive calorie deficit, and if one's calorie deficit is sustainable on the long run it should be off great benefit. What is more important than calorie deficit/calorie counting is the type of calorie one takes in. It can mean the difference between a successful diet or frustration.
I saw no indication on that thread that anyone, with the possible exception of you, felt insulted. When people disagree with you, that does not mean they feel insulted.
Sounds like you are confusing two concepts - *counting calories* and *satiety*.
Focusing on eating foods that fill you up does make losing weight more sustainable. While one can focus on one's satiating foods without counting calories, many of us have found that counting calories helps us identify the foods that bring the most satiety bang for the calorie buck.12 -
janejellyroll wrote: »I think I might be glad I do not know what TikTok is.
-Unhip
Usually it's short clips of people dancing, eating weird things, or dogs being cute . . . but apparently people are now also using it to dispense nutritional advice.
I don't know how something can be both "completely unexpected" and "inevitable," but this does it.
To quantify "short clips" - 15 seconds or less. So, long enough to enjoy animals being cute, but no so much for dispensing quality dietary advice.7 -
kshama2001 wrote: »Ohh boy, we have just had a debate about counting calories on a different thread, that went kind of hot. I stated 'counting calories is a waste of time' and I received some backlash some even felt insulted. I still believe it is in itself not enough. It is a great tool to track calorie intake to achive calorie deficit, and if one's calorie deficit is sustainable on the long run it should be off great benefit. What is more important than calorie deficit/calorie counting is the type of calorie one takes in. It can mean the difference between a successful diet or frustration.
I saw no indication on that thread that anyone, with the possible exception of you, felt insulted. When people disagree with you, that does not mean they feel insulted.
Sounds like you are confusing two concepts - *counting calories* and *satiety*.
Focusing on eating foods that fill you up does make losing weight more sustainable. While one can focus on one's satiating foods without counting calories, many of us have found that counting calories helps us identify the foods that bring the most satiety bang for the calorie buck.
Exactly. This whole conversation is like someone arguing that we shouldn't pay attention to how much money we spend because it's possible to track spending and still blow your entire paycheck at the casino.
Well, yeah. But the point of tracking spending is to understand where your money is going so you can make better choices for your personal financial situation. Counting calories is the same type of tool.13 -
kshama2001 wrote: »janejellyroll wrote: »I think I might be glad I do not know what TikTok is.
-Unhip
Usually it's short clips of people dancing, eating weird things, or dogs being cute . . . but apparently people are now also using it to dispense nutritional advice.
I don't know how something can be both "completely unexpected" and "inevitable," but this does it.
To quantify "short clips" - 15 seconds or less. So, long enough to enjoy animals being cute, but no so much for dispensing quality dietary advice.
I like the animals being cute part, but I mean, I can get that from Facebook. Seems like a terrible place to get any kind of advice on any subject though4 -
My personal thoughts are that calorie counting never causes an eating disorder. The eating disorder exists on some level and calorie counting is simply the focal point for that person. However, any tool that is part of weight loss can be a focal point of an eating disorder ... Anything that is healthy in one person's hand can be unhealthy for a person who is in a bad place.On an individual level of course calorie counting can be problematic but it's not that counting itself is inherently bad.
^^ Lots of wisdom in these two quotes ^^
I think that it would be helpful to understand that mental illness comes from within, and you can't point to someone's unhealthy compulsions and say THAT's what caused their mental illness. It's nonsense.11 -
Dogmom1978 wrote: »Ohh boy, we have just had a debate about counting calories on a different thread, that went kind of hot. I stated 'counting calories is a waste of time' and I received some backlash some even felt insulted. I still believe it is in itself not enough. It is a great tool to track calorie intake to achive calorie deficit, and if one's calorie deficit is sustainable on the long run it should be off great benefit. What is more important than calorie deficit/calorie counting is the type of calorie one takes in. It can mean the difference between a successful diet or frustration.
@bubus05 It got hot because of how very incorrect the “advise” you were giving was (which was proven by multiple people on that thread).
For health, you should obviously try to get enough protein and fat. For losing weight, calorie deficit is all that matters. Carbs aren’t evil. IF you have a health condition where you have to limit certain macros, then yes, you should track those more carefully (a couple of examples: diabetes or kidney disease).
As said above, for most of us, counting calories works. Most of us don’t have an actual eating disorder. If you do, you are probably underweight and shouldn’t count calories because it will likely trigger more unhealthy eating behaviors.
OP, based on some of your other threads, I’m going to ask if you have ever talked to a professional. If not, maybe talking to a therapist would be helpful.
No I have never talked to a professional however that doesn't mean I can't read or listen to professionals. By the way there is no need to be personal about this I consider everyone a friend here after all we are all interested in how diets work or dont work that's some common ground isn't it.
I pointed out a calorie deficit or calorie extra intake for that matter will influence one's metabolism, this is proven by multiple studies and experts, therefore equally as important-as calorie counting- if not more so is what one will consume. How am I wrong?2 -
@bubus05 you seem to have misread the part where I said “OP have you considered talking to a professional”. That is in part based on other posts they have made and was NOT directed at you.
You are wrong because what are you referring to is a very minor fluctuation in ones metabolism that will even out over time. I’m not about to relist everything already laid out from the other thread, but there was some great information there that you might want to reread if you really want to understand why myself and many others disagreed with you. In particular, annpt77 did a fantastic job explaining the problems with the advise you were offering.5 -
Dogmom1978 wrote: »Ohh boy, we have just had a debate about counting calories on a different thread, that went kind of hot. I stated 'counting calories is a waste of time' and I received some backlash some even felt insulted. I still believe it is in itself not enough. It is a great tool to track calorie intake to achive calorie deficit, and if one's calorie deficit is sustainable on the long run it should be off great benefit. What is more important than calorie deficit/calorie counting is the type of calorie one takes in. It can mean the difference between a successful diet or frustration.
@bubus05 It got hot because of how very incorrect the “advise” you were giving was (which was proven by multiple people on that thread).
For health, you should obviously try to get enough protein and fat. For losing weight, calorie deficit is all that matters. Carbs aren’t evil. IF you have a health condition where you have to limit certain macros, then yes, you should track those more carefully (a couple of examples: diabetes or kidney disease).
As said above, for most of us, counting calories works. Most of us don’t have an actual eating disorder. If you do, you are probably underweight and shouldn’t count calories because it will likely trigger more unhealthy eating behaviors.
OP, based on some of your other threads, I’m going to ask if you have ever talked to a professional. If not, maybe talking to a therapist would be helpful.
No I have never talked to a professional however that doesn't mean I can't read or listen to professionals. By the way there is no need to be personal about this I consider everyone a friend here after all we are all interested in how diets work or dont work that's some common ground isn't it.
I pointed out a calorie deficit or calorie extra intake for that matter will influence one's metabolism, this is proven by multiple studies and experts, therefore equally as important-as calorie counting- if not more so is what one will consume. How am I wrong?
I admire your tenacity, @bubus05 ... but as of this minute, you have 23 total posts on MFP, and 210 disagrees. That's plain amazing to me. Now I'm not saying that proves or disproves anything about your beliefs, but you've definitely found yourself a hot topic. You must understand by now that people here are going to challenge you every time you bring it up.11 -
Dogmom1978 wrote: »Ohh boy, we have just had a debate about counting calories on a different thread, that went kind of hot. I stated 'counting calories is a waste of time' and I received some backlash some even felt insulted. I still believe it is in itself not enough. It is a great tool to track calorie intake to achive calorie deficit, and if one's calorie deficit is sustainable on the long run it should be off great benefit. What is more important than calorie deficit/calorie counting is the type of calorie one takes in. It can mean the difference between a successful diet or frustration.
@bubus05 It got hot because of how very incorrect the “advise” you were giving was (which was proven by multiple people on that thread).
For health, you should obviously try to get enough protein and fat. For losing weight, calorie deficit is all that matters. Carbs aren’t evil. IF you have a health condition where you have to limit certain macros, then yes, you should track those more carefully (a couple of examples: diabetes or kidney disease).
As said above, for most of us, counting calories works. Most of us don’t have an actual eating disorder. If you do, you are probably underweight and shouldn’t count calories because it will likely trigger more unhealthy eating behaviors.
OP, based on some of your other threads, I’m going to ask if you have ever talked to a professional. If not, maybe talking to a therapist would be helpful.
No I have never talked to a professional however that doesn't mean I can't read or listen to professionals. By the way there is no need to be personal about this I consider everyone a friend here after all we are all interested in how diets work or dont work that's some common ground isn't it.
I pointed out a calorie deficit or calorie extra intake for that matter will influence one's metabolism, this is proven by multiple studies and experts, therefore equally as important-as calorie counting- if not more so is what one will consume. How am I wrong?
Lots of things impact our metabolism in some way. That doesn't mean they're "equally as important" as overall energy balance when it comes to managing our weight.6 -
So what do you do when you're eating out and there is no nutrition label? What if you buy meals at the grocery store and it has no information on macros?
It happens regularly in my case. Almost everyday3 -
So what do you do when you're eating out and there is no nutrition label? What if you buy meals at the grocery store and it has no information on macros?
It happens regularly in my case. Almost everyday
I look at what I'm eating, discern the ingredients to the best of my ability, and estimate how much I'm eating of each ingredient. Or I find a similar looking item for which there is calorie information.
Since I'm logging to a high degree of accuracy when I'm preparing my own food, it isn't really a problem that sometimes I'm making rougher estimates.
If it was happening to me almost every day, I'd accept that my progress with weight management might be a little more uneven than it was if I was estimating more accurately.
Don't let the perfect be the enemy of the good.16 -
So what do you do when you're eating out and there is no nutrition label? What if you buy meals at the grocery store and it has no information on macros?
It happens regularly in my case. Almost everyday
I don’t worry a fig about the macros if it doesn’t tell me. I know if I choose a meal with chicken in it, roughly how much protein I should get based on the weight of the chicken. Again, I don’t worry about it though.
As for eating out, most of us try to pick something similar from the data base based on our experience with tracking calories. Of course it won’t be 100% accurate, but nothing truly is.
Personally, I don’t sweat the small stuff. I track as accurately as I can and continue to lose my expected 1 lb per week, so I must be doing something right. 😊7 -
So what do you do when you're eating out and there is no nutrition label? What if you buy meals at the grocery store and it has no information on macros?
It happens regularly in my case. Almost everyday
Maybe...stop buying mystery meals from the grocery store? I don't know where you live, but surely your grocery store makes nutrition information available for their prepackaged foods somewhere.
For restaurant food - most chain restaurants, at this point, make their nutrition information available online. If you're supporting small local places, they may not have their nutrition info available, but you can still approximate your meal with what's already in the database for the most part. There's a limit to how many calories a restaurant can pack into a meal, it's not unknowable.
If cooking for yourself or buying your food from large chains are not feasible for you, then I don't know what to tell you.
To address the OP: +1 suggestion to not get your nutrition advice from TikTok. "Dietitian," in particular, is actually a protected title in the US (not sure about other places) - you need a license to call yourself that, and I'd be very skeptical of licensed dietitians out here working for free, especially on a social media app. That said, it is possible for people who already have or are developing a disordered relationship with food to fixate on calorie-counting such that it harms more than it helps in achieving their goals. The problem there is the disordered eating, though, not the calorie counting in and of itself. There are also people who don't do well with "intuitive eating," also due to mental health struggles like executive dysfunction or a disordered relationship with food - neither approach to health and nutrition is categorically better or worse, it's about what works for the individual.5 -
I definitely think it depends on the person. Some people can log and have really healthy outlooks when they go over their calories or just in their relation to food in general.
I've noticed that I, personally, have more consistent losses and a healthier relationship with food when I don't log. I just become obsessed with the numbers and accuracy to an unhealthy point. I obsess over everything that doesn't fit in my calories. I get frustrated when my numbers don't equate to loss because, even if I went over, I feel like I am working really hard mentally.
I do keep a mental estimate based on passed logging and I check calories on things that I don't have any ideas about. This has made it easier for me and I have consistently lost weight every month since doing this.3 -
I have found that counting calories, not obsessively but in search of accurate information about my eating habits, has been the only thing that helped me to counter weight gain. I would think I was eating a sensible balanced diet and consuming a reasonable amount; then I would put it into mfp and see that the calories were far higher than I had been thinking. I don't think it matters what you do to understand how your eating habits relate to your weight, but if you want to lose weight you will need to understand that relationship. Counting calories did it for me.4
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Dogmom1978 wrote: »Ohh boy, we have just had a debate about counting calories on a different thread, that went kind of hot. I stated 'counting calories is a waste of time' and I received some backlash some even felt insulted. I still believe it is in itself not enough. It is a great tool to track calorie intake to achive calorie deficit, and if one's calorie deficit is sustainable on the long run it should be off great benefit. What is more important than calorie deficit/calorie counting is the type of calorie one takes in. It can mean the difference between a successful diet or frustration.
@bubus05 It got hot because of how very incorrect the “advise” you were giving was (which was proven by multiple people on that thread).
For health, you should obviously try to get enough protein and fat. For losing weight, calorie deficit is all that matters. Carbs aren’t evil. IF you have a health condition where you have to limit certain macros, then yes, you should track those more carefully (a couple of examples: diabetes or kidney disease).
As said above, for most of us, counting calories works. Most of us don’t have an actual eating disorder. If you do, you are probably underweight and shouldn’t count calories because it will likely trigger more unhealthy eating behaviors.
OP, based on some of your other threads, I’m going to ask if you have ever talked to a professional. If not, maybe talking to a therapist would be helpful.
No I have never talked to a professional however that doesn't mean I can't read or listen to professionals. By the way there is no need to be personal about this I consider everyone a friend here after all we are all interested in how diets work or dont work that's some common ground isn't it.
I pointed out a calorie deficit or calorie extra intake for that matter will influence one's metabolism, this is proven by multiple studies and experts, therefore equally as important-as calorie counting- if not more so is what one will consume. How am I wrong?
I admire your tenacity, @bubus05 ... but as of this minute, you have 23 total posts on MFP, and 210 disagrees. That's plain amazing to me. Now I'm not saying that proves or disproves anything about your beliefs, but you've definitely found yourself a hot topic. You must understand by now that people here are going to challenge you every time you bring it up.
In a weird way I kind of like to be challenged I dont take anything here personally, we agree to disagree there is nothing wrong with that. Yes most will disagree with me but I dont mind. Everything that I wrote here is based on
experience. The why and how is based on research, now I might be missing something or misunderstand something quite possible I am no expert myself. I think that most will agree that depending on what one eats will influence one's metabolism. The question is how or at what point during diet. IMHO a simply reduced calorie intake with no regards to the type of calorie one eats is not the best most effective method, if it is not sustainable. If it is sustainable no worries the pounds one lost will remain lost regardless of the diet being on high carb low carb whatever kind of diet. I am not advocating against 'counting the calories' but try to point out that a simply reduced calorie diet may not get you the results you want or that long term may not be sustainable. Here is the science parthttps://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3673773/1 -
Dogmom1978 wrote: »Ohh boy, we have just had a debate about counting calories on a different thread, that went kind of hot. I stated 'counting calories is a waste of time' and I received some backlash some even felt insulted. I still believe it is in itself not enough. It is a great tool to track calorie intake to achive calorie deficit, and if one's calorie deficit is sustainable on the long run it should be off great benefit. What is more important than calorie deficit/calorie counting is the type of calorie one takes in. It can mean the difference between a successful diet or frustration.
@bubus05 It got hot because of how very incorrect the “advise” you were giving was (which was proven by multiple people on that thread).
For health, you should obviously try to get enough protein and fat. For losing weight, calorie deficit is all that matters. Carbs aren’t evil. IF you have a health condition where you have to limit certain macros, then yes, you should track those more carefully (a couple of examples: diabetes or kidney disease).
As said above, for most of us, counting calories works. Most of us don’t have an actual eating disorder. If you do, you are probably underweight and shouldn’t count calories because it will likely trigger more unhealthy eating behaviors.
OP, based on some of your other threads, I’m going to ask if you have ever talked to a professional. If not, maybe talking to a therapist would be helpful.
No I have never talked to a professional however that doesn't mean I can't read or listen to professionals. By the way there is no need to be personal about this I consider everyone a friend here after all we are all interested in how diets work or dont work that's some common ground isn't it.
I pointed out a calorie deficit or calorie extra intake for that matter will influence one's metabolism, this is proven by multiple studies and experts, therefore equally as important-as calorie counting- if not more so is what one will consume. How am I wrong?
I admire your tenacity, @bubus05 ... but as of this minute, you have 23 total posts on MFP, and 210 disagrees. That's plain amazing to me. Now I'm not saying that proves or disproves anything about your beliefs, but you've definitely found yourself a hot topic. You must understand by now that people here are going to challenge you every time you bring it up.
In a weird way I kind of like to be challenged I dont take anything here personally, we agree to disagree there is nothing wrong with that. Yes most will disagree with me but I dont mind. Everything that I wrote here is based on
experience. The why and how is based on research, now I might be missing something or misunderstand something quite possible I am no expert myself. I think that most will agree that depending on what one eats will influence one's metabolism. The question is how or at what point during diet. IMHO a simply reduced calorie intake with no regards to the type of calorie one eats is not the best most effective method, if it is not sustainable. If it is sustainable no worries the pounds one lost will remain lost regardless of the diet being on high carb low carb whatever kind of diet. I am not advocating against 'counting the calories' but try to point out that a simply reduced calorie diet may not get you the results you want or that long term may not be sustainable. Here is the science parthttps://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3673773/
That study is a giant pivot from your earlier diatribes. Is your approach to sling stuff at the wall, when it doesn't stick and you get called out for the glaring fallacies to then just sling a completely different pile of poo?
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Dogmom1978 wrote: »Ohh boy, we have just had a debate about counting calories on a different thread, that went kind of hot. I stated 'counting calories is a waste of time' and I received some backlash some even felt insulted. I still believe it is in itself not enough. It is a great tool to track calorie intake to achive calorie deficit, and if one's calorie deficit is sustainable on the long run it should be off great benefit. What is more important than calorie deficit/calorie counting is the type of calorie one takes in. It can mean the difference between a successful diet or frustration.
@bubus05 It got hot because of how very incorrect the “advise” you were giving was (which was proven by multiple people on that thread).
For health, you should obviously try to get enough protein and fat. For losing weight, calorie deficit is all that matters. Carbs aren’t evil. IF you have a health condition where you have to limit certain macros, then yes, you should track those more carefully (a couple of examples: diabetes or kidney disease).
As said above, for most of us, counting calories works. Most of us don’t have an actual eating disorder. If you do, you are probably underweight and shouldn’t count calories because it will likely trigger more unhealthy eating behaviors.
OP, based on some of your other threads, I’m going to ask if you have ever talked to a professional. If not, maybe talking to a therapist would be helpful.
No I have never talked to a professional however that doesn't mean I can't read or listen to professionals. By the way there is no need to be personal about this I consider everyone a friend here after all we are all interested in how diets work or dont work that's some common ground isn't it.
I pointed out a calorie deficit or calorie extra intake for that matter will influence one's metabolism, this is proven by multiple studies and experts, therefore equally as important-as calorie counting- if not more so is what one will consume. How am I wrong?
I admire your tenacity, @bubus05 ... but as of this minute, you have 23 total posts on MFP, and 210 disagrees. That's plain amazing to me. Now I'm not saying that proves or disproves anything about your beliefs, but you've definitely found yourself a hot topic. You must understand by now that people here are going to challenge you every time you bring it up.
In a weird way I kind of like to be challenged I dont take anything here personally, we agree to disagree there is nothing wrong with that. Yes most will disagree with me but I dont mind. Everything that I wrote here is based on
experience. The why and how is based on research, now I might be missing something or misunderstand something quite possible I am no expert myself. I think that most will agree that depending on what one eats will influence one's metabolism. The question is how or at what point during diet. IMHO a simply reduced calorie intake with no regards to the type of calorie one eats is not the best most effective method, if it is not sustainable. If it is sustainable no worries the pounds one lost will remain lost regardless of the diet being on high carb low carb whatever kind of diet. I am not advocating against 'counting the calories' but try to point out that a simply reduced calorie diet may not get you the results you want or that long term may not be sustainable. Here is the science parthttps://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3673773/
Even if the body is using fewer calories as the result of adaptations due to weight loss, that's going to happen whether we lose weight through consciously counting calories or another method of weight loss (that involves reducing calories through a more roundabout method). It's not like the simple ACT of counting calories results in different results once we're at the goal, so I'm absolutely at a loss as to what you're trying to argue here.
If the argument is that successful weight management includes identifying which foods/types of meals results in satiety, I don't think anyone here would argue against that. It's just that we recognize that counting calories is a good way to ensure one is hitting one's goal for loss/management. It can be used with ALL other strategies for weight management, including eating for satiety (high volume, high fiber, high protein, etc), limiting eating opportunities (fasting, OMAD), eating regularly (multiple small meals), limiting certain types of food (high sugar, high fat, etc). Almost any eating adaptation I can think of can be used in combination with calorie counting, with the bonus that it makes weight management more predictable and allows one to continue to manage one's weight even if one's routine is thrown off. For example, if I manage my weight with the hack of limiting pre-prepared food, I might struggle if a family member is in the hospital for an extended period and I have to get a bunch of my meals from fast food or another pre-made source. If I'm limiting pre-prepared food and counting calories, then when my routine is thrown off, I can still eat to my calorie goal even when I'm going to Taco Bell.
About the only method that doesn't work well with calorie counting, IMO, is intuitive eating.
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