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To Keto or Not To Keto?
Replies
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Funny. When I used to compete back in the day (80's) we had no access to multiple OPINIONS on carb depletion, carb loading before contests. There were a couple I did where I looked completely flat and then 2 days after the mandatory after contest binge (for me it was pizza and ice cream) I looked way better and of course felt way better.If keto helps for medical issues or dietary adherence then that's great
Again I'm not one for vertually eliminating a whole food group
Also from a physique perspective your look terrible if remotely lean
You certainly look flat on keto. But you can always run CKD to help address that. Or a program like UD2.
From a personal standard point CKD is no where near enough carbs to make me look remotely good
Keto
Carb binge and over spilled 48 hours later
Don't disagree. I somehow don't think most people are gonna have your physique.
A.C.E. Certified Personal and Group Fitness Trainer
IDEA Fitness member
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Been in fitness for 30 years and have studied kinesiology and nutrition
Totally agree that super deletion and carb loading is definitely relevant in peak week.
I just woke up one morning looked in the mirror and thought *kitten* it, full uncontrollable
Carb binge, hence the over spill0 -
It's so amazing how the body works. I've watched many a contest where a contestant can look "watery" but get harder as the posing callouts continue in a hour. Also how one day can be night and day in their appearance. The chemical reaction in the body based on intake and balance of water is so delicate when it comes to peak or not.
Funny. When I used to compete back in the day (80's) we had no access to multiple OPINIONS on carb depletion, carb loading before contests. There were a couple I did where I looked completely flat and then 2 days after the mandatory after contest binge (for me it was pizza and ice cream) I looked way better and of course felt way better.If keto helps for medical issues or dietary adherence then that's great
Again I'm not one for vertually eliminating a whole food group
Also from a physique perspective your look terrible if remotely lean
You certainly look flat on keto. But you can always run CKD to help address that. Or a program like UD2.
From a personal standard point CKD is no where near enough carbs to make me look remotely good
Keto
Carb binge and over spilled 48 hours later
Don't disagree. I somehow don't think most people are gonna have your physique.
A.C.E. Certified Personal and Group Fitness Trainer
IDEA Fitness member
Kickboxing Certified Instructor
Been in fitness for 30 years and have studied kinesiology and nutrition
Totally agree that super deletion and carb loading is definitely relevant in peak week.
I just woke up one morning looked in the mirror and thought *kitten* it, full uncontrollable
Carb binge, hence the over spill
A.C.E. Certified Personal and Group Fitness Trainer
IDEA Fitness member
Kickboxing Certified Instructor
Been in fitness for 30 years and have studied kinesiology and nutrition
1 -
If keto helps for medical issues or dietary adherence then that's great
Again I'm not one for vertually eliminating a whole food group
Also from a physique perspective your look terrible if remotely lean
You certainly look flat on keto. But you can always run CKD to help address that. Or a program like UD2.
From a personal standard point CKD is no where near enough carbs to make me look remotely good
Keto
Carb binge and over spilled 48 hours later
Don't disagree. I somehow don't think most people are gonna have your physique.
Just pointing out the difference carbs can make to to a physique.
Personally I look like crap in both pictures, from my point of view obviously
I disagree with you looking like crap, 😆. Both are impressive. And yea, i most bodybuilders I know that use Keto will carb load a few days out.1 -
It's so amazing how the body works. I've watched many a contest where a contestant can look "watery" but get harder as the posing callouts continue in a hour. Also how one day can be night and day in their appearance. The chemical reaction in the body based on intake and balance of water is so delicate when it comes to peak or not.
Funny. When I used to compete back in the day (80's) we had no access to multiple OPINIONS on carb depletion, carb loading before contests. There were a couple I did where I looked completely flat and then 2 days after the mandatory after contest binge (for me it was pizza and ice cream) I looked way better and of course felt way better.If keto helps for medical issues or dietary adherence then that's great
Again I'm not one for vertually eliminating a whole food group
Also from a physique perspective your look terrible if remotely lean
You certainly look flat on keto. But you can always run CKD to help address that. Or a program like UD2.
From a personal standard point CKD is no where near enough carbs to make me look remotely good
Keto
Carb binge and over spilled 48 hours later
Don't disagree. I somehow don't think most people are gonna have your physique.
A.C.E. Certified Personal and Group Fitness Trainer
IDEA Fitness member
Kickboxing Certified Instructor
Been in fitness for 30 years and have studied kinesiology and nutrition
Totally agree that super deletion and carb loading is definitely relevant in peak week.
I just woke up one morning looked in the mirror and thought *kitten* it, full uncontrollable
Carb binge, hence the over spill
A.C.E. Certified Personal and Group Fitness Trainer
IDEA Fitness member
Kickboxing Certified Instructor
Been in fitness for 30 years and have studied kinesiology and nutrition
Definitely agree, I don't tend to post too much on here as prep seems to be very niche
And debating the minusha isn't popular
Respect and appreciate both @psulemon and @ninerbuff opinions on here
As you both have practical experience
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I’ve thought I was doing the Keto diet well enough to finally test if I’m in ketosis to find out no I wasn’t. I’m not doing the intermittent fasting but I do know that my prediabetes is gone for being on a Low Carb High Fat diet in general. Maybe my protein is too high or I should stop a “fiber only” according to nutrition label carb. So I’m tracking even closer and adding more fat straight from the bottles. As well as cut out my fiber one original that has 37g fiber and 0g sugar according to nutrition label however if you read the ingredients there clearly is sugar in it. I’ll have to give it to a friend instead. Fruit you can eat fruit. Berries and avocados. You can eat nuts and seeds. Several vegetables. Cauliflower can make your “bread and potatoes” spaghetti squash can make your “pasta” it’s nowhere near as hard as you think. And some people have used it to gain weight. The term diet in reality means what you eat. Nothing more. It’s just not what people see it as meaning. Diet fad would be a better way to put what people see the word diet to truly mean.2
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https://www.sciencemag.org/news/2021/02/nih-boosts-precision-nutrition-research-quest-individualized-diets
Hopefully when this study data is made public it will help with our understanding.0 -
maria4560h wrote: »I’ve thought I was doing the Keto diet well enough to finally test if I’m in ketosis to find out no I wasn’t. I’m not doing the intermittent fasting but I do know that my prediabetes is gone for being on a Low Carb High Fat diet in general. Maybe my protein is too high or I should stop a “fiber only” according to nutrition label carb. So I’m tracking even closer and adding more fat straight from the bottles. As well as cut out my fiber one original that has 37g fiber and 0g sugar according to nutrition label however if you read the ingredients there clearly is sugar in it. I’ll have to give it to a friend instead. Fruit you can eat fruit. Berries and avocados. You can eat nuts and seeds. Several vegetables. Cauliflower can make your “bread and potatoes” spaghetti squash can make your “pasta” it’s nowhere near as hard as you think. And some people have used it to gain weight. The term diet in reality means what you eat. Nothing more. It’s just not what people see it as meaning. Diet fad would be a better way to put what people see the word diet to truly mean.
Were you using a ketone blood meter measure ketones? If not, it's unlikely you were getting accurate measures. Second, while protein can blunt ketone production a little, it shouldn't matter as your body will still go back into ketosis shortly after consuming. Thirdly, and I can't stress this enough, protein should be a focus during weight loss. It's not only the most thermogenic, but also helps retain muscle and metabolic functions.6 -
Preference by the user. However I've NOT YET met a person personally who lost weight on keto and kept it off after going back to trying to eat normal foods again. Initially it's almost impossible because as soon as carbs are reintroduced to the body, weight will shoot up a few pounds because of water and glycogen retention. And this can freak them out where they either jump back on keto immediately, or get depressed at the weight gain and give in and overeat again.
ANY DIET PROGRAM should be a total lifestyle change they INTEND TO KEEP DOING. Not just to lose weight. It's why there are so many out there that lose and regain.
A.C.E. Certified Personal and Group Fitness Trainer
IDEA Fitness member
Kickboxing Certified Instructor
Been in fitness for 30 years and have studied kinesiology and nutrition
That is mainly for 2 reasons:
1 if you are one of those who have genes related to diabetes, while on keto you are creating a big insuline resistence. So when you re-introduce carbs, the higher production of insuline pushes more fat inside the cells and you regain body fat.
2 I think is the main point. Getting rid of 75% of the viriety of food doesn't teach you how to eat (like every diet). So once you you re-introduce those foods or you quit counting calories, there are higher chances that you go back and eat the old way and thus regain all the weight.
I agree with you. One has to find a way of eating that one can embrace as lifestyle.1 -
Preference by the user. However I've NOT YET met a person personally who lost weight on keto and kept it off after going back to trying to eat normal foods again. Initially it's almost impossible because as soon as carbs are reintroduced to the body, weight will shoot up a few pounds because of water and glycogen retention. And this can freak them out where they either jump back on keto immediately, or get depressed at the weight gain and give in and overeat again.
ANY DIET PROGRAM should be a total lifestyle change they INTEND TO KEEP DOING. Not just to lose weight. It's why there are so many out there that lose and regain.
A.C.E. Certified Personal and Group Fitness Trainer
IDEA Fitness member
Kickboxing Certified Instructor
Been in fitness for 30 years and have studied kinesiology and nutrition
That is mainly for 2 reasons:
1 if you are one of those who have genes related to diabetes, while on keto you are creating a big insuline resistence. So when you re-introduce carbs, the higher production of insuline pushes more fat inside the cells and you regain body fat.
2 I think is the main point. Getting rid of 75% of the viriety of food doesn't teach you how to eat (like every diet). So once you you re-introduce those foods or you quit counting calories, there are higher chances that you go back and eat the old way and thus regain all the weight.
I agree with you. One has to find a way of eating that one can embrace as lifestyle.
No offence but your Seriously lacking in basic biology, insulin is basically a transportation hormone, virtually all the fat we consume is stored as fat etc etc etc6 -
Preference by the user. However I've NOT YET met a person personally who lost weight on keto and kept it off after going back to trying to eat normal foods again. Initially it's almost impossible because as soon as carbs are reintroduced to the body, weight will shoot up a few pounds because of water and glycogen retention. And this can freak them out where they either jump back on keto immediately, or get depressed at the weight gain and give in and overeat again.
ANY DIET PROGRAM should be a total lifestyle change they INTEND TO KEEP DOING. Not just to lose weight. It's why there are so many out there that lose and regain.
A.C.E. Certified Personal and Group Fitness Trainer
IDEA Fitness member
Kickboxing Certified Instructor
Been in fitness for 30 years and have studied kinesiology and nutrition
That is mainly for 2 reasons:
1 if you are one of those who have genes related to diabetes, while on keto you are creating a big insuline resistence. So when you re-introduce carbs, the higher production of insuline pushes more fat inside the cells and you regain body fat.
2 I think is the main point. Getting rid of 75% of the viriety of food doesn't teach you how to eat (like every diet). So once you you re-introduce those foods or you quit counting calories, there are higher chances that you go back and eat the old way and thus regain all the weight.
I agree with you. One has to find a way of eating that one can embrace as lifestyle.
No offence but your Seriously lacking in basic biology, insulin is basically a transportation hormone, virtually all the fat we consume is stored as fat etc etc etc
No offense taken.
Yes fat is stored in cells. But when you are predisposed to diabetes you are very likely to store fat in non adipose tissues like muscle tissues or liver tissues. That is called insulin resistance. It causes non alcoholic fat liver and pre type 2 diabetes. The insulin is no longer capable to push glucose inside the muscular cells thus it stays in the bloodstream. Your body in response will produce more insulin. And as you eat more fat, that will end up in more muscle cells (called intromyocellular lipid).3 -
maria4560h wrote: »I’ve thought I was doing the Keto diet well enough to finally test if I’m in ketosis to find out no I wasn’t. I’m not doing the intermittent fasting but I do know that my prediabetes is gone for being on a Low Carb High Fat diet in general. Maybe my protein is too high or I should stop a “fiber only” according to nutrition label carb. So I’m tracking even closer and adding more fat straight from the bottles. As well as cut out my fiber one original that has 37g fiber and 0g sugar according to nutrition label however if you read the ingredients there clearly is sugar in it. I’ll have to give it to a friend instead. Fruit you can eat fruit. Berries and avocados. You can eat nuts and seeds. Several vegetables. Cauliflower can make your “bread and potatoes” spaghetti squash can make your “pasta” it’s nowhere near as hard as you think. And some people have used it to gain weight. The term diet in reality means what you eat. Nothing more. It’s just not what people see it as meaning. Diet fad would be a better way to put what people see the word diet to truly mean.
Were you using a ketone blood meter measure ketones? If not, it's unlikely you were getting accurate measures. Second, while protein can blunt ketone production a little, it shouldn't matter as your body will still go back into ketosis shortly after consuming. Thirdly, and I can't stress this enough, protein should be a focus during weight loss. It's not only the most thermogenic, but also helps retain muscle and metabolic functions.
Fourthly, adding more fat is not the answer. You're presumably trying to lose fat, right?
It's the low carbs that get you into ketosis, not the high fat. You don't need to eat high fat to be in ketosis. Too many people don't understand that. The idea should be to burn the fat you're already carting around.5 -
Preference by the user. However I've NOT YET met a person personally who lost weight on keto and kept it off after going back to trying to eat normal foods again. Initially it's almost impossible because as soon as carbs are reintroduced to the body, weight will shoot up a few pounds because of water and glycogen retention. And this can freak them out where they either jump back on keto immediately, or get depressed at the weight gain and give in and overeat again.
ANY DIET PROGRAM should be a total lifestyle change they INTEND TO KEEP DOING. Not just to lose weight. It's why there are so many out there that lose and regain.
A.C.E. Certified Personal and Group Fitness Trainer
IDEA Fitness member
Kickboxing Certified Instructor
Been in fitness for 30 years and have studied kinesiology and nutrition
That is mainly for 2 reasons:
1 if you are one of those who have genes related to diabetes, while on keto you are creating a big insuline resistence. So when you re-introduce carbs, the higher production of insuline pushes more fat inside the cells and you regain body fat.
2 I think is the main point. Getting rid of 75% of the viriety of food doesn't teach you how to eat (like every diet). So once you you re-introduce those foods or you quit counting calories, there are higher chances that you go back and eat the old way and thus regain all the weight.
I agree with you. One has to find a way of eating that one can embrace as lifestyle.
No offence but your Seriously lacking in basic biology, insulin is basically a transportation hormone, virtually all the fat we consume is stored as fat etc etc etc
No offense taken.
Yes fat is stored in cells. But when you are predisposed to diabetes you are very likely to store fat in non adipose tissues like muscle tissues or liver tissues. That is called insulin resistance. It causes non alcoholic fat liver and pre type 2 diabetes. The insulin is no longer capable to push glucose inside the muscular cells thus it stays in the bloodstream. Your body in response will produce more insulin. And as you eat more fat, that will end up in more muscle cells (called intromyocellular lipid).
Nope.
Insulin resistance is a decrease in the ability of the cells to respond to the insulin hormonal signals to move glucose from the blood thru the cell walls. NAFLD is one of the symptoms of insulin resistance. The biggest indicator of insulin resistance (besides border line high blood glucose levels) is excess fat being stored in the belly (not in the muscles).
Insulin does not 'push' the glucose into the cells from the blood - it signals the cells that glucose is available to be absorbed. Being insulin resistant means that it takes more insulin to get the point across to the cells to take in the glucose, thus forcing the pancreas to work harder and the liver to store more fat in an effort to try and control both glucose levels and cholesterol/trigliceride levels in the blood.
The keto diet is actually a very good way to combat insulin resistance because it (by its very nature) decreases the amount of circulating glucose in the blood (thus decreasing the need for extra insulin production). However, ANY diet that decreases excess body fat will also help improve insulin response.14 -
I don't think I'd last a day. Fortunately keto isn't necessary for weight loss.3
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In hindsight it seems Keto first addressed my leaking gut syndrome. Then reset my gut microbiome balance then my autoimmune diseases resolved over time.5
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Fixed it for youPreference by the user. However I've NOT YET met a person personally who lost weight on keto and kept it off after going back to trying to eat normal foods again. Initially it's almost impossible because as soon as carbs are reintroduced to the body, weight will shoot up a few pounds because of water and glycogen retention. And this can freak them out where they either jump back on keto immediately, or get depressed at the weight gain and give in and overeat again.
ANY DIET PROGRAM should be a total lifestyle change they INTEND TO KEEP DOING. Not just to lose weight. It's why there are so many out there that lose and regain.
A.C.E. Certified Personal and Group Fitness Trainer
IDEA Fitness member
Kickboxing Certified Instructor
Been in fitness for 30 years and have studied kinesiology and nutrition
That is mainly for 2 reasons:
1 if you are one of those who have genes related to diabetes, while on keto you are creating a big insuline resistence. So when you re-introduce carbs eat more calories, the higher production of insuline pushes more fat inside the cells and you regain body fat.
2 I think is the main point. Getting rid of 75% of the viriety of food doesn't teach you how to eat (like every diet). So once you you re-introduce those foods or you quit counting calories, there are higher chances that you go back and eat the old way and thus regain all the weight.
I agree with you. One has to find a way of eating that one can embrace as lifestyle.
The only thing that leads to fat storage is an excess of calories...3 -
Ok, ok enough already. To Keto or not to Keto wow. First, let address my experience my wife and I both were over weight. I was always easy to gain and omg hard to loose. In my 30’s I became an avid runner and even with a 1200 calorie ‘name brand diet’, while running an average of 125 miles per week and spending over an hour a day working out 5 days a week I was just able to maintain my weight. With a 22% body fat count I was not giving up. Fast forward a few years and because of a previous military injury I began to have issues with my legs. Long story, but here I am 63 and with 16 disks in my back screwed up after being told I would never walk again. I walk with great difficulty on walking sticks now.
My wife and her health issues are less dramatic yet at 5 feet tall she was over 300 lbs and having several health issues. Type 2 diabetes an A1C of 8.7 among other things. And diet after diet after diet THEY NEVER WORK!!!
I was told to watch a video called the Diet Pill and well to be honest lots of it was just not of interest a couple of things caught my attention.
1. How is it we eat the same things we feed our animals to fatten them up for market?
Grains such as wheat, oats, etc, and sugars, both "natural" and sugar alcohols. ("Ever see a fat animal in the wild" was a line from the video.)
2. Most medical doctors (I have NOT fact checked this other than asking every doctor I know who has verified it’s true) only receive about 20-25 hours of training in nutrition. They are the ones telling us how to control our body chemistry through diet?
3. One other was to my daughter in law’s dismay is that Kale doesn’t have much nutritional value. Lol. (Again, no fact check done on this)
I sum up my mini novel with this. My wife is a picky eater so I introduced the thought of the Keto diet. She was very open to the concept. We spoke to our PCM a DO. She was skeptical but not against it and said she wanted to follow my wife’s A1C close as well as her other out of wack counts.
Skip ahead, 2 1/2 weeks into the new Keto life style of eating (notice it’s NOT A DIET) (It is a life style change). I had lost 20 lbs my wife 21. Her A1C was now 5.2 and has maintained below that without ANY DRUGS 2 years later. All our blood chemistry is in the good range and we are both over 150 lbs lighter and feeling great.
My final thought is this. Say what you want. Keto or not. It’s not about a DIET it’s about finding a healthy life style and living it to the fullest.
I’m done now,
Laters
I now return you to your regular squabbles.
9 -
paperpudding wrote: »For me personally - no. Doesn't appeal to me at all.
Everyone else - try it if you want to. Or don't, if you don't.
But weight loss = CICO, regardless of being on keto or not.
Me, either. Not a WOE (way of eating) that would sustain me. But I have a couple friends who love it and for whom it has worked well.
But if you think it could work for you, give it a shot. Then you’ll know.
However you eat, you still need to be in a caloric deficit to lose weight.5 -
It's a debate forum.Orionphoto wrote: »Ok, ok enough already. To Keto or not to Keto wow.
Correlation isn't causation. Go to any country that is 3rd world. They eat rice, processed foods and sugar. Brazil eats more than we do. BUT do not have the obesity levels we do. Why? Like anyone or any other animal, we get fat by OVERCONSUMPTION. You're gonna tell me that bears don't get fat?1. How is it we eat the same things we feed our animals to fatten them up for market?
Grains such as wheat, oats, etc, and sugars, both "natural" and sugar alcohols. ("Ever see a fat animal in the wild" was a line from the video.)
Won't disagree with you on that, but most doctors do believe more in a balanced diet and exercise as a better way for health.2. Most medical doctors (I have NOT fact checked this other than asking every doctor I know who has verified it’s true) only receive about 20-25 hours of training in nutrition. They are the ones telling us how to control our body chemistry through diet?
Actually it's rich in A,K, B6, C, calcium and potassium.3. One other was to my daughter in law’s dismay is that Kale doesn’t have much nutritional value. Lol. (Again, no fact check done on this)
ANYONE who drops weight after being obese will have better A1C numbers regardless of diets. And yes it is about lifestyle change and living it, but NOT ALL people who do keto stick to it for life. They do it just to lose weight. Only about 10% of people who use it to lose weight, stick to it for life. Just like any other diet plan.My final thought is this. Say what you want. Keto or not. It’s not about a DIET it’s about finding a healthy life style and living it to the fullest.
I’m done now,
Laters
I now return you to your regular squabbles.
A.C.E. Certified Personal and Group Fitness Trainer
IDEA Fitness member
Kickboxing Certified Instructor
Been in fitness for 30 years and have studied kinesiology and nutrition
9 -
So why did you regain? Because it wasn't something you could stick to for life?When I was doing KetoI lost good! I’m going back on it! I actually gave Sunday lunches as my cheat meal.
What you're describing is yoyo dieting scenario.
A.C.E. Certified Personal and Group Fitness Trainer
IDEA Fitness member
Kickboxing Certified Instructor
Been in fitness for 30 years and have studied kinesiology and nutrition
5 -
Ask yourself: can I eat this way the rest of my life? Full well know that if you decide to "carb fest" you could EASILY gain 10lbs in a day. Of course not fat, but that's pretty dishearting to people who may have taken 4 months or more just to lose 10lbs.mdmccall34 wrote: »I have been on keto since feb 1, almost 2 months. I have lost 12 pounds. I try different meals to help keep me on track. I don’t eat pork or beef. So I do a lot of Salmon, turkey, chicken and shrimp and a lot of vegetables
A.C.E. Certified Personal and Group Fitness Trainer
IDEA Fitness member
Kickboxing Certified Instructor
Been in fitness for 30 years and have studied kinesiology and nutrition
4
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