Coronavirus prep

stevehenderson776 wrote: »

I don't know about teachers getting a big priority. Seems to me that it's not going to lead to fewer classroom outbreaks unless the 20-30 students are getting vaccinated too. I just don't see why it would make a difference. If you have a classroom outbreak and the teacher isn't vaccinated, the entire class isolates for two+ weeks. If you have a classroom outbreak and the teacher is vaccinated, the entire class isolates for two+ weeks. The only difference is that 1 in 20 or more people of the exposed group is vaccinated. Seems like the limited supply of vaccines would be better prioritized elsewhere.

Perhaps the point is primarily to protect the teachers, whose choice is to quit their jobs, or take the risk . . . and their risk of serious disease can be quite high - they're of all ages, health statuses. Children are less at risk, though they have some risk, and it's true that they can carry disease back to their families . . . but the families may have other education options (some schools offer virtual + in person, some areas have school districts with different options, etc.).

We're asking teachers to perform a vital service, in person. Quarantine/isolation is not what we're trying to protect against when we vaccinate teachers or students.

stevehenderson776 wrote: »

I don't know about teachers getting a big priority. Seems to me that it's not going to lead to fewer classroom outbreaks unless the 20-30 students are getting vaccinated too. I just don't see why it would make a difference. If you have a classroom outbreak and the teacher isn't vaccinated, the entire class isolates for two+ weeks. If you have a classroom outbreak and the teacher is vaccinated, the entire class isolates for two+ weeks. The only difference is that 1 in 20 or more people of the exposed group is vaccinated. Seems like the limited supply of vaccines would be better prioritized elsewhere.

Wow, so, just like, line the teachers up and shoot them, then?

Teachers are being forced to work in person with large groups of people whether they want to or not, whether they have health conditions or sick family members or not. It’s about not killing them.

stevehenderson776 wrote: »

AnnPT77 wrote: »

stevehenderson776 wrote: »

I don't know about teachers getting a big priority. Seems to me that it's not going to lead to fewer classroom outbreaks unless the 20-30 students are getting vaccinated too. I just don't see why it would make a difference. If you have a classroom outbreak and the teacher isn't vaccinated, the entire class isolates for two+ weeks. If you have a classroom outbreak and the teacher is vaccinated, the entire class isolates for two+ weeks. The only difference is that 1 in 20 or more people of the exposed group is vaccinated. Seems like the limited supply of vaccines would be better prioritized elsewhere.

Perhaps the point is primarily to protect the teachers, whose choice is to quit their jobs, or take the risk . . . and their risk of serious disease can be quite high - they're of all ages, health statuses. Children are less at risk, though they have some risk, and it's true that they can carry disease back to their families . . . but the families may have other education options (some schools offer virtual + in person, some areas have school districts with different options, etc.).

We're asking teachers to perform a vital service, in person. Quarantine/isolation is not what we're trying to protect against when we vaccinate teachers or students.

This is true of many types of workplaces that wouldn't receive the same type of priority. Every essential business/service has people of many ages and health conditions. And they all have the same option: quit or risk it. That's not unique to teachers. I just don't see how you can justify vaccinating this group ahead of others with similar exposure to the public and where there would be better chances of limiting large outbreaks elsewhere. Prioritization is about where the vaccine is going to do the most good to prevent outbreaks amongst the most susceptible. Giving it to 1 in 30 people at a public school doesn't really help with that at this point.

OK, but people don't get as upset when a convenience store worker or an assembly line worker quits. They usually can't afford to quit and they don't have much power as a group, so society tends to overlook them. But when they do quit, you can usually find someone who needs the money to step in. They are easily replaced.

You can't just stick anybody in the classroom, though. Just like you can't stick just anybody in the ICU to fill in for a nurse. These people (teachers) have advanced educations and training, are licensed and often specialized. If enough teachers quit, that's a problem. I know teachers who are close enough to retirement who say they will just take early retirement rather than come back without a vaccination. My own sister says she'll quit if she has to, and she's no where near retirement. She has other options besides teaching, which she does mostly because she enjoys it. I guess if you have a whole bunch of extra teachers laying around to plug the holes for those who refuse to go back, then you CAN just say screw you and send them back. But in some places, there were already teacher shortages before COVID. Good luck plugging the holes.

If you don't think teachers are that important, then you probably don't care if they come back to the classroom or not. If the priority is to get them back in the classroom because you think children are actually suffering without them, then you need the teachers to feel safe.

P.S. Sorry if anybody thinks I'm mad or upset when I write my responses. I'm actually not at all. I'm a chill person. I'm just very straightforward in my communication.

jenilla1 wrote: »

Psychgrrl wrote: »

33gail33 wrote: »

Psychgrrl wrote: »

Personally, I found this rather appalling as the term “essential employee” has been left open to interpretation. That and the shifting directions on who to vaccinate.

https://apple.news/ApkRhyC0dRLKdXs-4jrDVog

Yeah but I also don't really agree with the consensus that teachers should be on the first priority list. I don't know why say a 32 year old teacher is a higher priority than a 62 year old factory worker, or postal sorter, or delivery person. I really think that they should be prioritizing by age and health, and not occupation (besides health care I guess where they are directly exposed to high doses.) Especially since people in those occupations are more likely to be members of low income vulnerable communities, which have been hit particularly hard.
It must be hard though to have to make those calls, because no matter who is left to the end you know at least someone in that group is going to die. There is also a mask mandate here so any teacher and all of their students are masked the same as every other workplace where you can't distance.

I think it depends on the work/circumstances. A senior staying at home versus a teacher required to go back in the classroom?

Taking the only resource out of a rural community hurts everyone. Including the people the health dept. wants to prioritize.

I agree. If you want teachers back in the classroom, give them priority. Otherwise, let them stay at home. Groups who can stay home don't need to get vaxxed first. Teachers are not martyrs who should be expected to sacrifice themselves for the good of other people's children. They have lives and families too. They aren't expendable. Either provide them with protection (vax) or keep doing this remotely. We've done this for almost a year to keep people safe. Now we're telling teachers we're over it. We could vaccinate you before sending you back but we won't. Is it suddenly less dangerous in the classroom than it has been this past year? I wouldn't go back without a vax.

On that note, I personally know several grocery workers (related to a few) who've been frontline in the danger zone all this time, thinking when the vax comes they'll be a priority. Not one of them has been able to get vaxxed. They've got 65 year olds who can stay home getting shots before them. At one store, the entire produce and meat department was sent home last week. They made it this whole time without a major outbreak, but it finally hit. Everybody needs groceries. Unvaxxed, sick grocery workers are a health hazard to the community. Why aren't they a priority?

I expect to have to stay home for a long time before my turn for a vax comes up. I think that if you can isolate, you shouldn't get priority. Save it for the people on the frontlines and for those stuck in facilities (nursing homes, etc.) Who can't isolate.

Here in California, our agricultural workers are also priorities after healthcare workers. But you’re dealing with many barriers: status, language, isolation in rural areas to name a few. We have not been successful in vaccinating them yet and outbreaks remain rampant. Same thing for our frontline grocery workers. And teachers. It’s a big group. I’m hopeful the J&J will have doses available in a month or so. It’s just so difficult when it’s different in every state. And sometimes within each state.

I am grateful our on-site staff were prioritized. I’ve been darting in and out of quarantine/isolation areas to deliver things to students since September. And getting belongings to people that realize they forgot when they got to isolation (we use ambulances to transport them). Almost always phone/laptop chargers. It’s winter, their windows are shut, we have no circulating air in the rooms (everyone is in a single). Our climate is pretty moderate year-round (we do have heat in “winter”). I typically throw on some garbage bags in addition to gloves and face coverings. I can always be counted on to class it up! 😂 I learned early on I often had to reach across stuff like beds (covered in cooties) to unplug things. One the symptomatic students (there have been blessedly few positives who have felt sick) wanted her quilt her grandma made off her bed. So I went and got it.

We set aside times when everyone must be in their room (8am every morning) so custodial can come in and get the trash and sanitize. In and out really quickly.

Every thing possible to maintain safe distances, but the risk is still high. And we have people to take care of. Just like the other “essentials.”

Remote learning has not been ideal for many college students. And I hear from my colleagues how hard this is on their kids. If we want teachers in the classroom with them, we should vaccinate them. And, while it’s far from ideal, their job can be done remotely. Not so for grocery workers, delivery folks, etc. I would like to see the people who have to work on-site to provide a service the rest of us need get vaccinated before people who have the option of working remotely.

stevehenderson776 wrote: »

AnnPT77 wrote: »

stevehenderson776 wrote: »

I don't know about teachers getting a big priority. Seems to me that it's not going to lead to fewer classroom outbreaks unless the 20-30 students are getting vaccinated too. I just don't see why it would make a difference. If you have a classroom outbreak and the teacher isn't vaccinated, the entire class isolates for two+ weeks. If you have a classroom outbreak and the teacher is vaccinated, the entire class isolates for two+ weeks. The only difference is that 1 in 20 or more people of the exposed group is vaccinated. Seems like the limited supply of vaccines would be better prioritized elsewhere.

Perhaps the point is primarily to protect the teachers, whose choice is to quit their jobs, or take the risk . . . and their risk of serious disease can be quite high - they're of all ages, health statuses. Children are less at risk, though they have some risk, and it's true that they can carry disease back to their families . . . but the families may have other education options (some schools offer virtual + in person, some areas have school districts with different options, etc.).

We're asking teachers to perform a vital service, in person. Quarantine/isolation is not what we're trying to protect against when we vaccinate teachers or students.

This is true of many types of workplaces that wouldn't receive the same type of priority. Every essential business/service has people of many ages and health conditions. And they all have the same option: quit or risk it. That's not unique to teachers. I just don't see how you can justify vaccinating this group ahead of others with similar exposure to the public and where there would be better chances of limiting large outbreaks elsewhere. Prioritization is about where the vaccine is going to do the most good to prevent outbreaks amongst the most susceptible. Giving it to 1 in 30 people at a public school doesn't really help with that at this point.

The difference is that business can enforce mask-wearing by employees and even customers, who are adults. Many schools aren't requiring students to mask and maintain adequate, even though exposure is much longer than 15 minutes, and it's unrealistic to expect children to consistently abide by masking and social distancing rules even if they are in place.

I don't have a dog in this fight. I'm not a teacher and I don't have school-age children.

I ran a few errands today at retail places that weren't crowded and that I thought I could get in and out of in just a few minutes.

At one place, there was an unmasked teenager shopping with an adult woman. I know not all legitimate issues for not wearing a mask are apparent, and I didn't say anything or even give her the stink eye, although I may have looked shocked for a moment -- it was really jarring, as for months now, most people in my area have been very good about mask compliance. I moved away to a different part of the store until they left the area where the stuff I wanted was stocked.

At another place, the customer just in front of me in line had his mask pulled down so that it only covered his mouth, not his nose. After he had paid, he stood just to the side, waiting for his purchase. The cashier motioned for me to come forward and didn't seem to understand my reluctance, why I wouldn't actually get that close to make my request. I had been feeling sorry for him for having to wait on the chin-strapper, but I guess it didn't even register with him.

I texted my mom yesterday and in her response she mentioned off hand that she and my dad were in the KMart parking lot waiting to see if they'd have a reaction to the vaccine. And I'm like Wait, What? You just got vaccinated? They didn't bother to tell me I mean I don't know if you can tell from this thread but I'm kind of openly obsessed with the vaccines <sigh> I don't understand my life lol.

Anyway my dad was scheduled because he's 76. He brought my mom and they jabbed her too even though she's under 75. They got Pfizer and have appts for the second shot. She said they both felt the same as if they had the flu shot and as of today just a little arm soreness.

MikePfirrman wrote: »

Thanks for all the kind thoughts on my brother. He's in the hospital, they changed meds -- Dexamethasone -- the same steroid that they put Trump on when he had it that can make some people act erratic. But it has been shown to be very helpful in survival rates. He's on oxygen but not yet on a ventilator, so that's a positive. Roughly 70% survive when they are put on Dexamethasone. My other siblings are working to get him antibody plasma, which is in short supply -- but my sister's significant other is type O and has the antibodies, so I think they are working on that.

Because some have asked, my brother was very active and thin (he got all the height in the family -- he's like six foot four). He was on some meds that I'm not fond of -- warfarin namely. Relative to others, he didn't fit into the normal "preexisting" category, other than the warfarin. I worried about the health of his liver, taking that for a while now. He was put on it because of blood clotting in his legs.

His wife is a nurse, so he's in good hands. I just wished that my siblings believed more in holistic herbs/meds. There has been ample research to hint that quercetin, resveratrol, tea, zinc, Vit D, Vit C, melatonin are all good ideas to have around if you do get it. Although (for good reason) he's been hesitent to ever use herbal supplements, as they are finding out -- by the time you have Covid-19 pneumonia, it may be too late to get medical assistance. That's why having some supplements/herbs around, just in case, along with an oxygen sensor, isn't a bad idea.

They were very careful with masks when out, but having adult kids living at home exposed them.

It sounds like everyone is doing everything possible for your brother and it still must be so scary! I’m so sorry.

My staffer has been struggling for three weeks now and is finally around the bend. Thank goodness! But she still is nowhere near 100%. Running a fever daily for weeks on end—yikes! Coughing so hard she can’t breathe. 👎🏻 This has been awful for her. And she is completely remote and goes no where, her boyfriend bought it home to her. 😞 He feels horrible for bringing it home. Even the most careful people can get infected.

People can bring it home without showing symptoms themselves. Speaking from my limited experience, only a few out of a hundred or so cases I have worked with directly have had symptoms in my college students. Most are downright shocked when their test comes back positive.

I truly hope your brother heals quickly and completely. 💖

Psychgrrl wrote: »

And here’s a kicker. Our county decided today that the “educator” category in 1b only includes K-12 and not higher ed. Thank goodness my university gets our vaccines from the state and not the county. But that doesn’t help my colleagues at other institutions around the county who are being pressured to return on-site with no chance of vaccines on the horizon. 😞

Well, you know, there are a lot of people, in a lot of industries, that are not being "pressured" to return to work in-person...we are already there, and have been for a long time.

My industry is not considered essential, but I have to be there every day, in person, among other people. It's a huge risk to myself and my family. But if I don't go, I won't have a job, and I'm the sole financial support for my household.

I will have no vaccine priority, and neither will any of my colleagues here or across the country. We are being told that our group will START becoming eligible on May 31st.

It sucks that we can't just vaccinate everyone all at once, but it also sucks that everyone has reasons that they think they should be in line ahead of other people.