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"Foodie Calls"
Replies
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I'm pretty introverted and shy so dating has always been a bit of a nightmare for me anyway, and I can't imagine anything worse than going for dinner on a first date. Most of my first dates have involved some kind of shared activity like a walk, or just a coffee. Even at my poorest, living on peanut butter sandwiches, I would never have considered feigning interest in someone to get a free meal.
I know my friend's daughter, a particularly attractive young woman in her early 20s, bragged about never having to buy a drink when she went to a bar. I guess it is common for young men to send over drinks to tables of lovely young women in the hope of impressing one of them. Not quite the same thing since there is no communication or understanding between the parties regarding expectations.0 -
janejellyroll wrote: »I think Helen Gurley Brown went so far as to say that a woman who paid for ANYTHING when a man was willing to pick up the bill was stupid.
As a young woman, I was much influenced by HGB. Much of her advice still holds true. Currently rereading "Having It All."
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Back in the mid 60's I accepted dinner from a much older man (I was 17 or 18 and he was well over 50) purely for the free food. Yep, I still feel bad about it all these years later.4
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Last time I dated this was still the societal norm. The woman was definitely not taking advantage of the man, it's just the way it was.
Good thing I'm not dating, now. Faux pas city!3 -
Does going out for a meal with a guy that you've told flat out multiple time that you're not interested in anything other than friendship, and they keep asking you out repeatedly apparently under the delusion that a romantic restaurant will change your mind, and eventually in a moment of weakness (and the secret hope that when it doesn't work they'll finally give up), you say yes, count as a foodie call?
Does going out for a meal with a guy who you think of as a friend after you bought them an inexpensive fast food meal when they claimed they didn't have any money on them, and then they insist that you let them pay you back, count as a foodie call?
If so, yes, I've done a foodie call. If those guys chose later to feel aggrieved, I'd say it's on them.5 -
spinnerdell wrote: »Back in the mid 60's I accepted dinner from a much older man (I was 17 or 18 and he was well over 50) purely for the free food. Yep, I still feel bad about it all these years later.
I don't think you should, especially if you were 17. If he was expecting a romantic relationship with a 17 year old, he was wrong. If he wasn't, and just wanted to buy you a meal and talk for a while, you didn't do anything wrong. Be a little kinder to your 17 year old self. (I'm assuming you were polite to him.)3 -
lynn_glenmont wrote: »spinnerdell wrote: »Back in the mid 60's I accepted dinner from a much older man (I was 17 or 18 and he was well over 50) purely for the free food. Yep, I still feel bad about it all these years later.
I don't think you should, especially if you were 17. If he was expecting a romantic relationship with a 17 year old, he was wrong. If he wasn't, and just wanted to buy you a meal and talk for a while, you didn't do anything wrong. Be a little kinder to your 17 year old self. (I'm assuming you were polite to him.)
I was polite but dishonest, not so much in what I said, but in what I didn't say- that I had no romantic interest in him. It wasn't a fancy meal, just a corner cafe, but it loomed large at that time of struggle in my life.3 -
I would never do this as I prefer to eat by myself.3
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"...a foodie call occurs when a person, despite their lack of romantic attraction to someone, agrees to go on a date just to get a free meal
So basically escort service/prostitution except the payment is a meal instead of cash.4 -
Theoldguy1 wrote: »"...a foodie call occurs when a person, despite their lack of romantic attraction to someone, agrees to go on a date just to get a free meal
So basically escort service/prostitution except the payment is a meal instead of cash.
Not really at all. No going with them anywhere, no activities involved. You meet in a restaurant, have a meal, and separate. Doesn't meet your statement at all.5 -
DavWillTry wrote: »Theoldguy1 wrote: »"...a foodie call occurs when a person, despite their lack of romantic attraction to someone, agrees to go on a date just to get a free meal
So basically escort service/prostitution except the payment is a meal instead of cash.
Not really at all. No going with them anywhere, no activities involved. You meet in a restaurant, have a meal, and separate. Doesn't meet your statement at all.
You are thinking of a person that has sex for money. Other definitions of prostitute out there
Example:
A person who does, or offers to do, an activity for money (or food in this case), despite personal dislike or dishonour.
https://www.yourdictionary.com/prostitute2 -
That's a ridiculous definition of "prostitute"--basically anyone with a decent paying job they don't love=a prostitute by that definition.11
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That's a ridiculous definition of "prostitute"--basically anyone with a decent paying job they don't love=a prostitute by that definition.
Correct interpretation.
Go debate with the dictionary people.
Another example: "A person who misuses their talents or who sacrifices their self-respect for the sake of personal or financial gain."
https://www.lexico.com/en/definition/prostitute0 -
Theoldguy1 wrote: »DavWillTry wrote: »Theoldguy1 wrote: »"...a foodie call occurs when a person, despite their lack of romantic attraction to someone, agrees to go on a date just to get a free meal
So basically escort service/prostitution except the payment is a meal instead of cash.
Not really at all. No going with them anywhere, no activities involved. You meet in a restaurant, have a meal, and separate. Doesn't meet your statement at all.
You are thinking of a person that has sex for money. Other definitions of prostitute out there
Example:
A person who does, or offers to do, an activity for money (or food in this case), despite personal dislike or dishonour.
https://www.yourdictionary.com/prostitute
So I'm a prostitute because I work on material procurement as part of my job, even though I hate that aspect of my job?
I'm not against sex work, but that's a ridiculous definition of prostitute.
Keep in mind there are sex workers who feel neither "dislike" or "dishonor" related to their job, so basically this definition excludes them from the ranks of prostitutes but includes the average fast food cashier.6 -
We're arguing about the word here.
I agree that "prostitution" in the common sense doesn't apply to "foodie calls". English words routinely have connotations or conventions that are important to clearest communication, but dictionary definitions don't necessarily capture all the nuance.
"Escort service", though, maybe, at least in a metaphorical sense? Yeah, I kinda think so, personally. Or maybe a little less defensible behavior than an "escort service". "Escort service" participants on both sides clearly understand the terms of the transaction.
In the "foodie call" scenario, we have one party who has expectations (reasonable ones, IMO), that "a date" is about getting to know someone, with a view to further dating. The other party doesn't plan to enjoy the first person's company, has no intention of "dating", but is just looking for the compensation of a free meal in return for . . . the pleasure of their golden presence this one time?
"Freeloader" works for me, too, as does "deceptive", "underhanded", "egotistical", "vain", "exploitive", "cynical" . . . .
In some contexts, I wouldn't - as I said before - consider it inexcusable behavior, but it's not aboveboard, and is cynically exploitive.
P.S. I'd use about those same words (and probably some others) if the person buying the meal expected sexual favors in return.6 -
We're arguing about the word here.
I agree that "prostitution" in the common sense doesn't apply to "foodie calls". English words routinely have connotations or conventions that are important to clearest communication, but dictionary definitions don't necessarily capture all the nuance.
"Escort service", though, maybe, at least in a metaphorical sense? Yeah, I kinda think so, personally. Or maybe a little less defensible behavior than an "escort service". "Escort service" participants on both sides clearly understand the terms of the transaction.
In the "foodie call" scenario, we have one party who has expectations (reasonable ones, IMO), that "a date" is about getting to know someone, with a view to further dating. The other party doesn't plan to enjoy the first person's company, has no intention of "dating", but is just looking for the compensation of a free meal in return for . . . the pleasure of their golden presence this one time?
"Freeloader" works for me, too, as does "deceptive", "underhanded", "egotistical", "vain", "exploitive", "cynical" . . . .
In some contexts, I wouldn't - as I said before - consider it inexcusable behavior, but it's not aboveboard, and is cynically exploitive.
P.S. I'd use about those same words (and probably some others) if the person buying the meal expected sexual favors in return.
I agree with you. Although there are obvious exceptions, a hypothetical exchange between a prostitute/escort and a client include both parties choosing to engage in the transaction while knowing the terms.
To the extent that a guy thinks a woman is interested in a potential relationship when she's only wanting her meal paid for, that's deception.
If a guy said, "I'd like to buy dinner for an attractive woman and I'd like that woman to be you, no strings attached," I don't see any problem with it. But that's probably not how these invitations are being given. Reasonable women know what a man means when he asks them out to dinner - it's not because he just likes watching a woman eat.3 -
We're arguing about the word here.
I agree that "prostitution" in the common sense doesn't apply to "foodie calls". English words routinely have connotations or conventions that are important to clearest communication, but dictionary definitions don't necessarily capture all the nuance.
"Escort service", though, maybe, at least in a metaphorical sense? Yeah, I kinda think so, personally. Or maybe a little less defensible behavior than an "escort service". "Escort service" participants on both sides clearly understand the terms of the transaction.
In the "foodie call" scenario, we have one party who has expectations (reasonable ones, IMO), that "a date" is about getting to know someone, with a view to further dating. The other party doesn't plan to enjoy the first person's company, has no intention of "dating", but is just looking for the compensation of a free meal in return for . . . the pleasure of their golden presence this one time?
"Freeloader" works for me, too, as does "deceptive", "underhanded", "egotistical", "vain", "exploitive", "cynical" . . . .
In some contexts, I wouldn't - as I said before - consider it inexcusable behavior, but it's not aboveboard, and is cynically exploitive.
P.S. I'd use about those same words (and probably some others) if the person buying the meal expected sexual favors in return.
Yes, Ann, you pin down exactly what is problematic with a foodie call.3 -
In the "foodie call" scenario, we have one party who has expectations (reasonable ones, IMO), that "a date" is about getting to know someone, with a view to further dating. The other party doesn't plan to enjoy the first person's company, has no intention of "dating", but is just looking for the compensation of a free meal in return for . . . the pleasure of their golden presence this one time?
"Freeloader" works for me, too, as does "deceptive", "underhanded", "egotistical", "vain", "exploitive", "cynical" . . . .
In some contexts, I wouldn't - as I said before - consider it inexcusable behavior, but it's not aboveboard, and is cynically exploitive.
I would agree with this.
I also think the dictionary definition (as you note) does not defend the choice of the term prostitute (I think we are in agreement on this and am not intending to imply otherwise). To explain my position further, it is true that prostituting is used (as an analogy) for debasing one's talents--and I have no issue with people saying that a particular expert witness, say, is basically a prostitute (which I've heard, and of course I know what people sometimes say about lawyers). But (1) this person is not doing that (she is not using talents at all, really); and (2) the sex worker meaning was first and the other is by analogy. So if you call a woman a "prostitute" in this context (the context of someone accepting a date), it is very clear that the intent is to call her a wh*re. (I say wh*re instead or a sex worker because insult is obviously intended, as well as the sexual implication).
I think calling a woman a prostitute as an insult is not great, and therefore think there's a big difference between that and the words you chose and I agreed with.
And yes, I'm overthinking this, since I am trying to understand my own instinctive response to that choice of term.4 -
Some of you folks have really negative attitudes about people. I prefer glass have full.
I won't check back on this thread, so don't respond to me. You have issues.6 -
We're arguing about the word here.
I agree that "prostitution" in the common sense doesn't apply to "foodie calls". English words routinely have connotations or conventions that are important to clearest communication, but dictionary definitions don't necessarily capture all the nuance.
"Escort service", though, maybe, at least in a metaphorical sense? Yeah, I kinda think so, personally. Or maybe a little less defensible behavior than an "escort service". "Escort service" participants on both sides clearly understand the terms of the transaction.
In the "foodie call" scenario, we have one party who has expectations (reasonable ones, IMO), that "a date" is about getting to know someone, with a view to further dating. The other party doesn't plan to enjoy the first person's company, has no intention of "dating", but is just looking for the compensation of a free meal in return for . . . the pleasure of their golden presence this one time?
"Freeloader" works for me, too, as does "deceptive", "underhanded", "egotistical", "vain", "exploitive", "cynical" . . . .
In some contexts, I wouldn't - as I said before - consider it inexcusable behavior, but it's not aboveboard, and is cynically exploitive.
P.S. I'd use about those same words (and probably some others) if the person buying the meal expected sexual favors in return.
I'm far too old to know what mores and social expectations the average young woman has absorbed these days, but I know that growing up in the 60s and 70s I absorbed the social expectation that in general, it was rude for a girl/woman to say no, and that generally the only acceptable reason to refuse a request to go out with a man was if you were already previously engaged (legitimately, not a made-up excuse). I have a vivid memory of a friend being asked by a guy to go swimming and her struggling for a way to say no and answer his "why not?" because her legitimate excuse was that she was having her period, which (in those days), of course she couldn't tell him (because men had to be sheltered from those dirty facts about women) (and, yes, in those days, girls did not go swimming when they had their period).
I now think this expectation is completely insane, and just basically part and parcel of the idea some men have that women should meet their expectations/demands to smile, engage in conversation, and generally behave in whatever manner those men want. But I don't know how much those expectations are still being grilled into young women.5
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