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1980s definatly, and back..Why were people more fit, toned and healthy Looking?

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Replies

  • ythannah
    ythannah Posts: 4,365 Member
    cymande1961 wrote: »
    wunderkindking wrote: »
    cwolfman13 wrote: »
    On what planet would Kate Upton be considered obese?

    032b3ea3cc51803fa78e38c09a21b456w-c1026572187xd-w826_h860_q80.jpg

    Planet Hollywood and Distorted Body Image, maybe ED.

    Seriously she apparently gained some weight. She never made it NEAR an overweight BMI, much less an obese one.

    The same thing happened to both Tyra Banks and Rihanna. Both went from too-thin to pleasingly plump - and both were ripped apart for becoming fat. Both women have written about how that criticism affected them. Fortunately, both focused on their health and said F the haters.

    My late mother used that expression! She was forever telling me that "boys prefer girls who are pleasingly plump". She wasn't really plump herself, she just had significantly more of a bust than I ever did. :D
  • lemurcat2
    lemurcat2 Posts: 7,885 Member
    Speakeasy76 wrote: »
    janejellyroll wrote: »
    JessD9031 wrote: »
    SuzySunshine99 wrote: »
    JessD9031 wrote: »
    Back in the day, actors, actresses, models, etc were forced to work out and bein shape to get and keep their jobs.

    Today, political correctness means that we have to celebrate fat people. You see, there are more fat people to sell to than fit people, and we would certainly not want to "hurt anyone's feelings" by putting someone healthy and fit out into the public eye. Fattie Mae might break down and eat all the donuts.

    Just my 2 cents worth.

    Oh yes, the days of forced anorexia to keep your job was much better! And long gone, too! Nowadays, you never see an underweight model, right? Amirite?

    Are you really suggesting that there is no longer any pressure on actors, models, media personalities, etc, to be thin? Are you being serious when you say that "fat people" are now preferred in these professions?

    Two words.

    Kate

    Upton

    Very beautiful young lady. If you took a measure of her body fat content, she would be considered obese. Nothing whatsoever fit about her. And she is not the only one.

    I am not saying there is anything wrong with that. Just that there is no longer the pressure to remain fit in order to be on TV or in a magazine. I believe that is the difference between now and the 80's as this post topic stated. Society, the media, the government, want to be sure not to hurt the feelings of anyone.

    Call me shallow, but I don't want to see a 235#, 5'4" woman modeling a bikini in a magazine or advertisement, and I guarantee you I won't be inclined to buy that bikini if I do see it. But the other side DOES want to see it, because it makes them feel good about themselves, and industry is selling to that side because they grossly (no pun intended) outweigh (no pun intended) the fit side.

    Well, maybe pun intended.

    Disclaimer: that is my opinion, and I am fully aware that having an opinion does not necessarily make me right.

    I had no idea who she was, so I googled her. Unless she's recently gained a lot of weight, there's no way that she could be considered obese.

    Seriously, of all the models that one could've chosen to represent an obese model--she's it?

    Also, apparently she gained weight (oh the horror) when pregnant, and she was fat shamed even before and definitely after, when not in swimsuit model shape. So hardly good evidence that models and actresses care nothing about being in shape anymore vs the '80s.
  • ninerbuff
    ninerbuff Posts: 48,488 Member
    lynn_glenmont wrote: »
    Saw an article today that reminded me of the discussion in this thread about whether fat-shaming has disappeared. It's from the mainstream press (WashingtonPost -- I know they have a pay wall, but I think you can read X number of articles for free per month), but it's written by a researcher in this area, and has links to actual studies and content by other researchers.

    https://www.washingtonpost.com/health/overweight-discrimination-common-harmful/2021/06/11/2946c538-c88c-11eb-afd0-9726f7ec0ba6_story.html
    I work in a middle school. It hasn't disappeared. You just don't verbally hear it as much since kids now just text each other.


    A.C.E. Certified Personal and Group Fitness Trainer
    IDEA Fitness member
    Kickboxing Certified Instructor
    Been in fitness for 30 years and have studied kinesiology and nutrition
    9285851.png
  • Theoldguy1
    Theoldguy1 Posts: 2,454 Member
    SuzySunshine99 wrote: »
    JessD9031 wrote: »
    Fidgetbrain wrote: »
    I don’t agree at all Jess, people don’t even know what a healthy body looks like even now, people were tearing apart Camila Cabello for being overweight and disgusting recently when she’s almost certainly at a healthy weight (I’m underweight and only a little thinner than her). The “healthy and fit” perfect woman of the moment usually shows up in a documentary a few years later talking about their eating disorder and how miserable they were at the time 😕. Even so, it’s not political correctness gone mad to also show representation for the majority of people instead of pretending thin bodies are the only ones which exist

    I am not talking about a representation, I am talking about "fit shaming". Fat shaming used to be status quo, and it was wrong. But now, it seems like people are shamed for wanting to be fit, because it makes the fat people feel bad about themselves. I have nothing against anyone, regardless of their size. That being said, I am tired of being criticized for being in shape, and wanting to stay that way. If someone loves themselves the way they are, good on them. But don't tell me that I make someone else self conscious because I work my *kitten* off to stay healthy and in shape. If they don't want a reminder of how they look, they can do something about it. Its not my job to make them feel good about themselves. And it is not society's job either. People need to take whatever steps that they need to take in order to feel good about themselves.

    Disclaimer: that is my opinion, and I am fully aware that having an opinion does not necessarily make me right.

    Does "fit shaming" really exist anywhere except on social media? I have never, ever experienced this, but I'm not on Facebook or any of that crap. Where are you being shamed for being fit?

    The reality is that being fit is still preferred in our society. Overweight/obese people are less likely to be hired, earn less money, and are passed over for promotions.

    I'm sorry, but fat shaming still IS the status quo.

    We have glorification of the "dad bod" and "thick" women. This glorification is pretty much shaming the fit person.
    https://www.menshealth.com/fitness/a35322745/what-is-dad-bod/
  • seltzermint555
    seltzermint555 Posts: 10,742 Member
    AnnPT77 wrote: »
    Theoldguy1 wrote: »
    SuzySunshine99 wrote: »
    JessD9031 wrote: »
    Fidgetbrain wrote: »
    I don’t agree at all Jess, people don’t even know what a healthy body looks like even now, people were tearing apart Camila Cabello for being overweight and disgusting recently when she’s almost certainly at a healthy weight (I’m underweight and only a little thinner than her). The “healthy and fit” perfect woman of the moment usually shows up in a documentary a few years later talking about their eating disorder and how miserable they were at the time 😕. Even so, it’s not political correctness gone mad to also show representation for the majority of people instead of pretending thin bodies are the only ones which exist

    I am not talking about a representation, I am talking about "fit shaming". Fat shaming used to be status quo, and it was wrong. But now, it seems like people are shamed for wanting to be fit, because it makes the fat people feel bad about themselves. I have nothing against anyone, regardless of their size. That being said, I am tired of being criticized for being in shape, and wanting to stay that way. If someone loves themselves the way they are, good on them. But don't tell me that I make someone else self conscious because I work my *kitten* off to stay healthy and in shape. If they don't want a reminder of how they look, they can do something about it. Its not my job to make them feel good about themselves. And it is not society's job either. People need to take whatever steps that they need to take in order to feel good about themselves.

    Disclaimer: that is my opinion, and I am fully aware that having an opinion does not necessarily make me right.

    Does "fit shaming" really exist anywhere except on social media? I have never, ever experienced this, but I'm not on Facebook or any of that crap. Where are you being shamed for being fit?

    The reality is that being fit is still preferred in our society. Overweight/obese people are less likely to be hired, earn less money, and are passed over for promotions.

    I'm sorry, but fat shaming still IS the status quo.

    We have glorification of the "dad bod" and "thick" women. This glorification is pretty much shaming the fit person.
    https://www.menshealth.com/fitness/a35322745/what-is-dad-bod/

    I didn't see the "glorification" in that article, subjectively speaking. Besides, saying one body type is OK (yet not holding it up as the sole pinnacle to be striven for) is not inherently shaming someone with a different body type.

    I read the silly article a couple of times, looking for the glorification or the shaming, didn't really see them. (It even suggested that the dad bod guys might wanna improve fitness, lose some belly fat for better health.) YMMV - evidently does.

    I'm not saying it doesn't happen anywhere, ever, though. Every dang thing gets "shamed", somewhere.

    I do think the recent trend toward "thicc" bodies and big booties for women is weird, but I can't think of anything I've seen that made me feel "shamed" for having (if I may self-congratulate a bit) a fairly firm but modest-sized sporty-looking li'l ol' lady butt. The fact that my body shape, one I consider Just Fine, is not on trend? That's not shaming.

    I totally agree. I remember a time maybe 2002-2004 (?) when the "in" body type was super narrow hips with ultra low-rise jeans and flat belly, smaller chests, etc. I did not feel shamed to have more of an hourglass figure. It just wasn't "in style".
  • Speakeasy76
    Speakeasy76 Posts: 961 Member
    AnnPT77 wrote: »
    Theoldguy1 wrote: »
    SuzySunshine99 wrote: »
    JessD9031 wrote: »
    Fidgetbrain wrote: »
    I don’t agree at all Jess, people don’t even know what a healthy body looks like even now, people were tearing apart Camila Cabello for being overweight and disgusting recently when she’s almost certainly at a healthy weight (I’m underweight and only a little thinner than her). The “healthy and fit” perfect woman of the moment usually shows up in a documentary a few years later talking about their eating disorder and how miserable they were at the time 😕. Even so, it’s not political correctness gone mad to also show representation for the majority of people instead of pretending thin bodies are the only ones which exist

    I am not talking about a representation, I am talking about "fit shaming". Fat shaming used to be status quo, and it was wrong. But now, it seems like people are shamed for wanting to be fit, because it makes the fat people feel bad about themselves. I have nothing against anyone, regardless of their size. That being said, I am tired of being criticized for being in shape, and wanting to stay that way. If someone loves themselves the way they are, good on them. But don't tell me that I make someone else self conscious because I work my *kitten* off to stay healthy and in shape. If they don't want a reminder of how they look, they can do something about it. Its not my job to make them feel good about themselves. And it is not society's job either. People need to take whatever steps that they need to take in order to feel good about themselves.

    Disclaimer: that is my opinion, and I am fully aware that having an opinion does not necessarily make me right.

    Does "fit shaming" really exist anywhere except on social media? I have never, ever experienced this, but I'm not on Facebook or any of that crap. Where are you being shamed for being fit?

    The reality is that being fit is still preferred in our society. Overweight/obese people are less likely to be hired, earn less money, and are passed over for promotions.

    I'm sorry, but fat shaming still IS the status quo.

    We have glorification of the "dad bod" and "thick" women. This glorification is pretty much shaming the fit person.
    https://www.menshealth.com/fitness/a35322745/what-is-dad-bod/

    I didn't see the "glorification" in that article, subjectively speaking. Besides, saying one body type is OK (yet not holding it up as the sole pinnacle to be striven for) is not inherently shaming someone with a different body type.

    I read the silly article a couple of times, looking for the glorification or the shaming, didn't really see them. (It even suggested that the dad bod guys might wanna improve fitness, lose some belly fat for better health.) YMMV - evidently does.

    I'm not saying it doesn't happen anywhere, ever, though. Every dang thing gets "shamed", somewhere.

    I do think the recent trend toward "thicc" bodies and big booties for women is weird, but I can't think of anything I've seen that made me feel "shamed" for having (if I may self-congratulate a bit) a fairly firm but modest-sized sporty-looking li'l ol' lady butt. The fact that my body shape, one I consider Just Fine, is not on trend? That's not shaming.

    I wouldn't necessarily say the trend towards women being thick and big booties is recent, but I just think it's now more accepted in maintstream culture. I also tend to think of "thick" women as those who are more hourglass-shaped with maybe a bit of extra meat, although I guess it's all relative. I think big butts and women being "thick" have been praised for years and years in certain cultures. Remember "Baby Got Back?" That was from the early 90's. I clearly remember, because I was in high school at the time. My white friends joked that the song was about me (a white girl), but not really in a good way--and I was thin at the time! Oh, how my 15-year old self wishes big butts were more accepted by the mainstream back then, but alas, the whole "waif" look was in (which was one reason why that song was written). Then, J-Lo brought more acceptance to bigger booties in the early 2000's, and then Beyonce, and Rihanna.

    When I was younger, because of both my bootie and/or the size of my lips I was asked by multiple men if I was biracial (in various ways)--yes, seriously! I don't think my butt was/is that big, but maybe for different standards or for the current time? I did feel self-conscious about it at times, especially when younger, but now am kinda proud of it--but more so because now it is strong, not just a bit on the "big" side. I think another reason why big butts are in--and this is purely just my speculation--is that hips/butt and boobs are what can make a woman appear more "feminine" or "desirable" (whatever that really means). Haven't there been references to men being either a "boob man" or a "butt man?" Well, there's not really much a woman can do to grow her boobs, besides gaining fat (which means gaining fat all over) or breast augmentation. A woman can have some control to some extent over growing her bootie and/or changing the shape with some targeted strength training, just like any other muscle.

    In any case, we all know eventually big butts will probably be out....just hopefully the "waif/heroin chic" look NEVER comes back in style! Also, I'd just like to point out that I was ALWAYS appreciated a nice, bigger butt on a guy, regardless if it was ever cool :D
  • AnnPT77
    AnnPT77 Posts: 31,957 Member
    Speakeasy76 wrote: »
    AnnPT77 wrote: »
    Theoldguy1 wrote: »
    SuzySunshine99 wrote: »
    JessD9031 wrote: »
    Fidgetbrain wrote: »
    I don’t agree at all Jess, people don’t even know what a healthy body looks like even now, people were tearing apart Camila Cabello for being overweight and disgusting recently when she’s almost certainly at a healthy weight (I’m underweight and only a little thinner than her). The “healthy and fit” perfect woman of the moment usually shows up in a documentary a few years later talking about their eating disorder and how miserable they were at the time 😕. Even so, it’s not political correctness gone mad to also show representation for the majority of people instead of pretending thin bodies are the only ones which exist

    I am not talking about a representation, I am talking about "fit shaming". Fat shaming used to be status quo, and it was wrong. But now, it seems like people are shamed for wanting to be fit, because it makes the fat people feel bad about themselves. I have nothing against anyone, regardless of their size. That being said, I am tired of being criticized for being in shape, and wanting to stay that way. If someone loves themselves the way they are, good on them. But don't tell me that I make someone else self conscious because I work my *kitten* off to stay healthy and in shape. If they don't want a reminder of how they look, they can do something about it. Its not my job to make them feel good about themselves. And it is not society's job either. People need to take whatever steps that they need to take in order to feel good about themselves.

    Disclaimer: that is my opinion, and I am fully aware that having an opinion does not necessarily make me right.

    Does "fit shaming" really exist anywhere except on social media? I have never, ever experienced this, but I'm not on Facebook or any of that crap. Where are you being shamed for being fit?

    The reality is that being fit is still preferred in our society. Overweight/obese people are less likely to be hired, earn less money, and are passed over for promotions.

    I'm sorry, but fat shaming still IS the status quo.

    We have glorification of the "dad bod" and "thick" women. This glorification is pretty much shaming the fit person.
    https://www.menshealth.com/fitness/a35322745/what-is-dad-bod/

    I didn't see the "glorification" in that article, subjectively speaking. Besides, saying one body type is OK (yet not holding it up as the sole pinnacle to be striven for) is not inherently shaming someone with a different body type.

    I read the silly article a couple of times, looking for the glorification or the shaming, didn't really see them. (It even suggested that the dad bod guys might wanna improve fitness, lose some belly fat for better health.) YMMV - evidently does.

    I'm not saying it doesn't happen anywhere, ever, though. Every dang thing gets "shamed", somewhere.

    I do think the recent trend toward "thicc" bodies and big booties for women is weird, but I can't think of anything I've seen that made me feel "shamed" for having (if I may self-congratulate a bit) a fairly firm but modest-sized sporty-looking li'l ol' lady butt. The fact that my body shape, one I consider Just Fine, is not on trend? That's not shaming.

    I wouldn't necessarily say the trend towards women being thick and big booties is recent, but I just think it's now more accepted in maintstream culture. I also tend to think of "thick" women as those who are more hourglass-shaped with maybe a bit of extra meat, although I guess it's all relative. I think big butts and women being "thick" have been praised for years and years in certain cultures. Remember "Baby Got Back?" That was from the early 90's. I clearly remember, because I was in high school at the time. My white friends joked that the song was about me (a white girl), but not really in a good way--and I was thin at the time! Oh, how my 15-year old self wishes big butts were more accepted by the mainstream back then, but alas, the whole "waif" look was in (which was one reason why that song was written). Then, J-Lo brought more acceptance to bigger booties in the early 2000's, and then Beyonce, and Rihanna.

    When I was younger, because of both my bootie and/or the size of my lips I was asked by multiple men if I was biracial (in various ways)--yes, seriously! I don't think my butt was/is that big, but maybe for different standards or for the current time? I did feel self-conscious about it at times, especially when younger, but now am kinda proud of it--but more so because now it is strong, not just a bit on the "big" side. I think another reason why big butts are in--and this is purely just my speculation--is that hips/butt and boobs are what can make a woman appear more "feminine" or "desirable" (whatever that really means). Haven't there been references to men being either a "boob man" or a "butt man?" Well, there's not really much a woman can do to grow her boobs, besides gaining fat (which means gaining fat all over) or breast augmentation. A woman can have some control to some extent over growing her bootie and/or changing the shape with some targeted strength training, just like any other muscle.

    In any case, we all know eventually big butts will probably be out....just hopefully the "waif/heroin chic" look NEVER comes back in style! Also, I'd just like to point out that I was ALWAYS appreciated a nice, bigger butt on a guy, regardless if it was ever cool :D

    Keep in mind that I was an adult by the 1970s. My concept of "recent" is going to be different from yours.

    I was around/aware for the zaftig women of the early 1960s (e.g., Raquel Welch, Sophia Loren, Gina Lollobrigida, etc.), the near-skeletal Twiggy and her ilk, the later heroin chic (Kate Moss), and various other supposedly aspirational body types in between and since. When thin, my shape is "sporty" (to pick a flattering term), "boyish". Even when I had breasts, they were small. Trust me, some men (or women) like that shape. I'm fine with who I am, and was even when I cared what others (such as potential partners) thought, in a way I don't, now. (That's not an age thing, it's an individual thing, BTW.)

    I have no quibble with other women wanting to be thicc or have a nice big booty, or whatever (within a reasonably healthy range), though it makes me sad when young women want things that are *extremely* not their (just fine, lovely) body type, or that are based on some absurdly photoshopped influencer.
  • janejellyroll
    janejellyroll Posts: 25,763 Member
    wunderkindking wrote: »
    Maybe... speculative here - believing women who are a totally normal weight for their height on every BMI chart ever, are OBESE influences how one is treated/believes they are treated for their fitness?

    Yes, I have no idea what is going on with that particular individual, but it's not at all uncommon for people with disordered eating or fitness routines to feel like they're being "shamed" for wanting to be slender. It's sort of like how some addicts will feel like their drinking is normal, but everyone is just being too hard of them.
  • janejellyroll
    janejellyroll Posts: 25,763 Member
    Theoldguy1 wrote: »
    SuzySunshine99 wrote: »
    JessD9031 wrote: »
    Fidgetbrain wrote: »
    I don’t agree at all Jess, people don’t even know what a healthy body looks like even now, people were tearing apart Camila Cabello for being overweight and disgusting recently when she’s almost certainly at a healthy weight (I’m underweight and only a little thinner than her). The “healthy and fit” perfect woman of the moment usually shows up in a documentary a few years later talking about their eating disorder and how miserable they were at the time 😕. Even so, it’s not political correctness gone mad to also show representation for the majority of people instead of pretending thin bodies are the only ones which exist

    I am not talking about a representation, I am talking about "fit shaming". Fat shaming used to be status quo, and it was wrong. But now, it seems like people are shamed for wanting to be fit, because it makes the fat people feel bad about themselves. I have nothing against anyone, regardless of their size. That being said, I am tired of being criticized for being in shape, and wanting to stay that way. If someone loves themselves the way they are, good on them. But don't tell me that I make someone else self conscious because I work my *kitten* off to stay healthy and in shape. If they don't want a reminder of how they look, they can do something about it. Its not my job to make them feel good about themselves. And it is not society's job either. People need to take whatever steps that they need to take in order to feel good about themselves.

    Disclaimer: that is my opinion, and I am fully aware that having an opinion does not necessarily make me right.

    Does "fit shaming" really exist anywhere except on social media? I have never, ever experienced this, but I'm not on Facebook or any of that crap. Where are you being shamed for being fit?

    The reality is that being fit is still preferred in our society. Overweight/obese people are less likely to be hired, earn less money, and are passed over for promotions.

    I'm sorry, but fat shaming still IS the status quo.

    We have glorification of the "dad bod" and "thick" women. This glorification is pretty much shaming the fit person.
    https://www.menshealth.com/fitness/a35322745/what-is-dad-bod/

    Maybe I'm just oblivious but when I hear someone praising a body type that is different than mine, I don't feel shamed. That doesn't mean there is anything wrong with non-thick women, it just means that humans can find a variety of forms attractive.
  • cwolfman13
    cwolfman13 Posts: 41,876 Member
    edited June 2021
    Motorsheen wrote: »
    cwolfman13 wrote: »
    janejellyroll wrote: »
    Theoldguy1 wrote: »
    MsCzar wrote: »
    I was
    wunderkindking wrote: »
    So, so many snacks.

    Having an afternoon snack right after school was a solid tradition. We lived near a Hostess Bakery outlet and boxes of Ho-ho's, Banana Flips, Snowballs and Zingers could be had for 50¢. We kids thought nothing of polishing off half a box in one go. Little Debbie apple cakes didn't last long either.

    Of course the activity after the snack was going outside and playing not sitting on a video game eating more snacks like now.

    Well, sometimes I'd have a snack and read a book or play with paper dolls or draw on the Etch-a-Sketch. Modern kids didn't invent sedentary hobbies. There probably are trends in physical activity that are relevant here, but I feel like this conversation overall is really flattening out differences and assuming an experience of 1980s life that is not necessarily accurate.


    [ in the middle of BFE Nebraska.

    Ha.

    I've been there....

    and I have never felt more alone in my life.


    s8MP3QN32HsEepgNnHJ6U9Bp.jpeg

    ^^Pretty much...

    Good corn though...
  • 33gail33
    33gail33 Posts: 1,155 Member
    SuzySunshine99 wrote: »
    Theoldguy1 wrote: »
    SuzySunshine99 wrote: »
    JessD9031 wrote: »
    Fidgetbrain wrote: »
    I don’t agree at all Jess, people don’t even know what a healthy body looks like even now, people were tearing apart Camila Cabello for being overweight and disgusting recently when she’s almost certainly at a healthy weight (I’m underweight and only a little thinner than her). The “healthy and fit” perfect woman of the moment usually shows up in a documentary a few years later talking about their eating disorder and how miserable they were at the time 😕. Even so, it’s not political correctness gone mad to also show representation for the majority of people instead of pretending thin bodies are the only ones which exist

    I am not talking about a representation, I am talking about "fit shaming". Fat shaming used to be status quo, and it was wrong. But now, it seems like people are shamed for wanting to be fit, because it makes the fat people feel bad about themselves. I have nothing against anyone, regardless of their size. That being said, I am tired of being criticized for being in shape, and wanting to stay that way. If someone loves themselves the way they are, good on them. But don't tell me that I make someone else self conscious because I work my *kitten* off to stay healthy and in shape. If they don't want a reminder of how they look, they can do something about it. Its not my job to make them feel good about themselves. And it is not society's job either. People need to take whatever steps that they need to take in order to feel good about themselves.

    Disclaimer: that is my opinion, and I am fully aware that having an opinion does not necessarily make me right.

    Does "fit shaming" really exist anywhere except on social media? I have never, ever experienced this, but I'm not on Facebook or any of that crap. Where are you being shamed for being fit?

    The reality is that being fit is still preferred in our society. Overweight/obese people are less likely to be hired, earn less money, and are passed over for promotions.

    I'm sorry, but fat shaming still IS the status quo.

    We have glorification of the "dad bod" and "thick" women. This glorification is pretty much shaming the fit person.
    https://www.menshealth.com/fitness/a35322745/what-is-dad-bod/

    I'm not sure I follow you....how does acceptance of "unfit" people mean that you are shaming "fit" people? It's like if I say, "Yellow peppers are good!" and you respond, "Why do you hate green peppers so much?" That logic doesn't work.

    Nothing in that article...or any real-life experience I have heard of...suggests that fit people are being shamed on a broad level.

    Yeah, there may be a few wackos out there that sneer at fit people, but I still maintain that "fit shaming" is NOT normal and NOT a trend in the real world. It's a creation of social media.

    I'm not sure about shaming of "fit" people, but thin women definitely get shamed, and it had a big influence on me as a teenager/young adult. I am tall (5'10") and was very thin, and not curvy at all (like 125 lbs.)

    Ever heard the phrase "real women have curves"? When I was young I definitely did not have curves and I was definitely a real woman, but it sucks to repeatedly hear things like that. While I guess the original purpose of those kinds of phrases were to promote body acceptance, it seems that we can't celebrate one body type without denigrating another for some reason.

    Every so often I still see memes going around to the effect of Marilyn Monroe on one side, and a thin smaller chest and hips woman on the other side with the caption "When did this become more attractive than this?" Thin women are often portrayed in the media as cold, unwomanly and undesireable - it is *kitten* to see your body type portrayed that way.
  • AnnPT77
    AnnPT77 Posts: 31,957 Member
    janejellyroll wrote: »
    wunderkindking wrote: »
    Maybe... speculative here - believing women who are a totally normal weight for their height on every BMI chart ever, are OBESE influences how one is treated/believes they are treated for their fitness?

    Yes, I have no idea what is going on with that particular individual, but it's not at all uncommon for people with disordered eating or fitness routines to feel like they're being "shamed" for wanting to be slender. It's sort of like how some addicts will feel like their drinking is normal, but everyone is just being too hard of them.

    In a scenario of someone feeling shamed or criticized when some other model of being is held up as OK/good (without being characterized as the "One True Way": I don't think the roots are *necessarily* in disordered beliefs or behavior. I think it can be less extreme. (I'm speaking generically, not about the particular case here.)

    I've noticed that sometimes people feel criticized or offended when someone disagrees with them about something that's clearly, purely a matter of personal taste, such as liking a particular musical artist/genre (or not), liking certain clothing styles (in a conversational context where neither one is actually wearing the thing under discussion, so it's theoretically impersonal), etc.

    It's tempting to attribute this reaction to lack of self-confidence, or similar, but I don't really like speculating about others' internal thought-states. Whatever the psychological roots, it seems bizarre to me, when I get this reaction to a disagreement of something purely taste oriented, if all someone said was an "I" statement about not liking the thing in question.🤷‍♀️ Maybe it's a felt need for for others to endorse one's personal choices, as social bonding? (Humans are very norm-driven, IMO, in a general sense.)

    I suspect that same general orientation could result in feeling shamed by phenomena like written/spoken appreciation for a different body type than ones own, even when not put up as "everyone must", especially if the pattern was repeated, as the "OK to have a dad bod" message has been (I think).
  • wunderkindking
    wunderkindking Posts: 1,615 Member
    AnnPT77 wrote: »
    janejellyroll wrote: »
    wunderkindking wrote: »
    Maybe... speculative here - believing women who are a totally normal weight for their height on every BMI chart ever, are OBESE influences how one is treated/believes they are treated for their fitness?

    Yes, I have no idea what is going on with that particular individual, but it's not at all uncommon for people with disordered eating or fitness routines to feel like they're being "shamed" for wanting to be slender. It's sort of like how some addicts will feel like their drinking is normal, but everyone is just being too hard of them.

    In a scenario of someone feeling shamed or criticized when some other model of being is held up as OK/good (without being characterized as the "One True Way": I don't think the roots are *necessarily* in disordered beliefs or behavior. I think it can be less extreme. (I'm speaking generically, not about the particular case here.)

    I've noticed that sometimes people feel criticized or offended when someone disagrees with them about something that's clearly, purely a matter of personal taste, such as liking a particular musical artist/genre (or not), liking certain clothing styles (in a conversational context where neither one is actually wearing the thing under discussion, so it's theoretically impersonal), etc.

    It's tempting to attribute this reaction to lack of self-confidence, or similar, but I don't really like speculating about others' internal thought-states. Whatever the psychological roots, it seems bizarre to me, when I get this reaction to a disagreement of something purely taste oriented, if all someone said was an "I" statement about not liking the thing in question.🤷‍♀️ Maybe it's a felt need for for others to endorse one's personal choices, as social bonding? (Humans are very norm-driven, IMO, in a general sense.)

    I suspect that same general orientation could result in feeling shamed by phenomena like written/spoken appreciation for a different body type than ones own, even when not put up as "everyone must", especially if the pattern was repeated, as the "OK to have a dad bod" message has been (I think).

    In this case it's not a matter of personal taste/opinion, though - oh, whether fit shaming is a thing is, but not the point this person made.

    Which is that Kate Upton is obese.

    That's saying something about perception and awareness of actual fact.

    Disordered eating? I dunno. Reason for them to feel fit shamed? I don't know.

    But something's sure up.

    Because obesity isn't an opinion and we have not only Kate Upton photos but height/weight. And she's not obese. so. Something somewhere's weird.
  • AnnPT77
    AnnPT77 Posts: 31,957 Member
    wunderkindking wrote: »
    AnnPT77 wrote: »
    janejellyroll wrote: »
    wunderkindking wrote: »
    Maybe... speculative here - believing women who are a totally normal weight for their height on every BMI chart ever, are OBESE influences how one is treated/believes they are treated for their fitness?

    Yes, I have no idea what is going on with that particular individual, but it's not at all uncommon for people with disordered eating or fitness routines to feel like they're being "shamed" for wanting to be slender. It's sort of like how some addicts will feel like their drinking is normal, but everyone is just being too hard of them.

    In a scenario of someone feeling shamed or criticized when some other model of being is held up as OK/good (without being characterized as the "One True Way": I don't think the roots are *necessarily* in disordered beliefs or behavior. I think it can be less extreme. (I'm speaking generically, not about the particular case here.)

    I've noticed that sometimes people feel criticized or offended when someone disagrees with them about something that's clearly, purely a matter of personal taste, such as liking a particular musical artist/genre (or not), liking certain clothing styles (in a conversational context where neither one is actually wearing the thing under discussion, so it's theoretically impersonal), etc.

    It's tempting to attribute this reaction to lack of self-confidence, or similar, but I don't really like speculating about others' internal thought-states. Whatever the psychological roots, it seems bizarre to me, when I get this reaction to a disagreement of something purely taste oriented, if all someone said was an "I" statement about not liking the thing in question.🤷‍♀️ Maybe it's a felt need for for others to endorse one's personal choices, as social bonding? (Humans are very norm-driven, IMO, in a general sense.)

    I suspect that same general orientation could result in feeling shamed by phenomena like written/spoken appreciation for a different body type than ones own, even when not put up as "everyone must", especially if the pattern was repeated, as the "OK to have a dad bod" message has been (I think).

    In this case it's not a matter of personal taste/opinion, though - oh, whether fit shaming is a thing is, but not the point this person made.

    Which is that Kate Upton is obese.

    That's saying something about perception and awareness of actual fact.

    Disordered eating? I dunno. Reason for them to feel fit shamed? I don't know.

    But something's sure up.

    Because obesity isn't an opinion and we have not only Kate Upton photos but height/weight. And she's not obese. so. Something somewhere's weird.

    Yes. I was intentionally not commenting on the specific "Kate Upton" thing here, thus "(I'm speaking generically, not about the particular case here.)" in my PP.

    I think good points have been made about the specific "Kate Upton" subthread, and I did some click-reacting, but have nothing new to add about that. I just thought generically attributing feelings of shame to roots in disordered thinking/behavior might be the extreme of how such feelings could arise, that there may potentially be more commonplace thought patterns at work, short of actual disorder. I'm sure that disordered thinking/behavior could be one underlying reason for (what I see as) over-reacting with shame, just not the only one.

    At a certain point in some threads, I feel like enough people have jumped in with what amounts to "that's just so wrong" in disagreeing with a particular case/person, and I feel uncomfortable with adding more to that, when I have nothing new to add.

    And just FTR: I'm *not* saying there are no instances or patterns of actual body type shaming in our culture, anywhere, ever. That IMO would be inaccurate. I'm talking about cases where some people feel shamed, when others similarly situated don't feel shamed, and what might make a difference.
  • Theoldguy1
    Theoldguy1 Posts: 2,454 Member
    cwolfman13 wrote: »
    Motorsheen wrote: »
    cwolfman13 wrote: »
    janejellyroll wrote: »
    Theoldguy1 wrote: »
    MsCzar wrote: »
    I was
    wunderkindking wrote: »
    So, so many snacks.

    Having an afternoon snack right after school was a solid tradition. We lived near a Hostess Bakery outlet and boxes of Ho-ho's, Banana Flips, Snowballs and Zingers could be had for 50¢. We kids thought nothing of polishing off half a box in one go. Little Debbie apple cakes didn't last long either.

    Of course the activity after the snack was going outside and playing not sitting on a video game eating more snacks like now.

    Well, sometimes I'd have a snack and read a book or play with paper dolls or draw on the Etch-a-Sketch. Modern kids didn't invent sedentary hobbies. There probably are trends in physical activity that are relevant here, but I feel like this conversation overall is really flattening out differences and assuming an experience of 1980s life that is not necessarily accurate.


    [ in the middle of BFE Nebraska.

    Ha.

    I've been there....

    and I have never felt more alone in my life.


    s8MP3QN32HsEepgNnHJ6U9Bp.jpeg

    ^^Pretty much...

    Good corn though...

    Good corn?

    This is why I chuckle a bit to myself when city people who aren't familiar with agriculture start commenting on how crops and farm animals should be raised.
  • Speakeasy76
    Speakeasy76 Posts: 961 Member
    edited June 2021
    AnnPT77 wrote: »
    Speakeasy76 wrote: »
    AnnPT77 wrote: »
    Theoldguy1 wrote: »
    SuzySunshine99 wrote: »
    JessD9031 wrote: »
    Fidgetbrain wrote: »
    I don’t agree at all Jess, people don’t even know what a healthy body looks like even now, people were tearing apart Camila Cabello for being overweight and disgusting recently when she’s almost certainly at a healthy weight (I’m underweight and only a little thinner than her). The “healthy and fit” perfect woman of the moment usually shows up in a documentary a few years later talking about their eating disorder and how miserable they were at the time 😕. Even so, it’s not political correctness gone mad to also show representation for the majority of people instead of pretending thin bodies are the only ones which exist

    I am not talking about a representation, I am talking about "fit shaming". Fat shaming used to be status quo, and it was wrong. But now, it seems like people are shamed for wanting to be fit, because it makes the fat people feel bad about themselves. I have nothing against anyone, regardless of their size. That being said, I am tired of being criticized for being in shape, and wanting to stay that way. If someone loves themselves the way they are, good on them. But don't tell me that I make someone else self conscious because I work my *kitten* off to stay healthy and in shape. If they don't want a reminder of how they look, they can do something about it. Its not my job to make them feel good about themselves. And it is not society's job either. People need to take whatever steps that they need to take in order to feel good about themselves.

    Disclaimer: that is my opinion, and I am fully aware that having an opinion does not necessarily make me right.

    Does "fit shaming" really exist anywhere except on social media? I have never, ever experienced this, but I'm not on Facebook or any of that crap. Where are you being shamed for being fit?

    The reality is that being fit is still preferred in our society. Overweight/obese people are less likely to be hired, earn less money, and are passed over for promotions.

    I'm sorry, but fat shaming still IS the status quo.

    We have glorification of the "dad bod" and "thick" women. This glorification is pretty much shaming the fit person.
    https://www.menshealth.com/fitness/a35322745/what-is-dad-bod/

    I didn't see the "glorification" in that article, subjectively speaking. Besides, saying one body type is OK (yet not holding it up as the sole pinnacle to be striven for) is not inherently shaming someone with a different body type.

    I read the silly article a couple of times, looking for the glorification or the shaming, didn't really see them. (It even suggested that the dad bod guys might wanna improve fitness, lose some belly fat for better health.) YMMV - evidently does.

    I'm not saying it doesn't happen anywhere, ever, though. Every dang thing gets "shamed", somewhere.

    I do think the recent trend toward "thicc" bodies and big booties for women is weird, but I can't think of anything I've seen that made me feel "shamed" for having (if I may self-congratulate a bit) a fairly firm but modest-sized sporty-looking li'l ol' lady butt. The fact that my body shape, one I consider Just Fine, is not on trend? That's not shaming.

    I wouldn't necessarily say the trend towards women being thick and big booties is recent, but I just think it's now more accepted in maintstream culture. I also tend to think of "thick" women as those who are more hourglass-shaped with maybe a bit of extra meat, although I guess it's all relative. I think big butts and women being "thick" have been praised for years and years in certain cultures. Remember "Baby Got Back?" That was from the early 90's. I clearly remember, because I was in high school at the time. My white friends joked that the song was about me (a white girl), but not really in a good way--and I was thin at the time! Oh, how my 15-year old self wishes big butts were more accepted by the mainstream back then, but alas, the whole "waif" look was in (which was one reason why that song was written). Then, J-Lo brought more acceptance to bigger booties in the early 2000's, and then Beyonce, and Rihanna.

    When I was younger, because of both my bootie and/or the size of my lips I was asked by multiple men if I was biracial (in various ways)--yes, seriously! I don't think my butt was/is that big, but maybe for different standards or for the current time? I did feel self-conscious about it at times, especially when younger, but now am kinda proud of it--but more so because now it is strong, not just a bit on the "big" side. I think another reason why big butts are in--and this is purely just my speculation--is that hips/butt and boobs are what can make a woman appear more "feminine" or "desirable" (whatever that really means). Haven't there been references to men being either a "boob man" or a "butt man?" Well, there's not really much a woman can do to grow her boobs, besides gaining fat (which means gaining fat all over) or breast augmentation. A woman can have some control to some extent over growing her bootie and/or changing the shape with some targeted strength training, just like any other muscle.

    In any case, we all know eventually big butts will probably be out....just hopefully the "waif/heroin chic" look NEVER comes back in style! Also, I'd just like to point out that I was ALWAYS appreciated a nice, bigger butt on a guy, regardless if it was ever cool :D

    Keep in mind that I was an adult by the 1970s. My concept of "recent" is going to be different from yours.

    I was around/aware for the zaftig women of the early 1960s (e.g., Raquel Welch, Sophia Loren, Gina Lollobrigida, etc.), the near-skeletal Twiggy and her ilk, the later heroin chic (Kate Moss), and various other supposedly aspirational body types in between and since. When thin, my shape is "sporty" (to pick a flattering term), "boyish". Even when I had breasts, they were small. Trust me, some men (or women) like that shape. I'm fine with who I am, and was even when I cared what others (such as potential partners) thought, in a way I don't, now. (That's not an age thing, it's an individual thing, BTW.)

    I have no quibble with other women wanting to be thicc or have a nice big booty, or whatever (within a reasonably healthy range), though it makes me sad when young women want things that are *extremely* not their (just fine, lovely) body type, or that are based on some absurdly photoshopped influencer.

    Yes, and unfortunately we have a much larger variety of media influence as when I was young, and there seems to be even more pressure to obtain a certain body type. I was a young teenager who wanted to achieve the "waif" look. I knew that Kate Moss was 5'7 and 105 pounds, and at 5'6, my goal was 100 pounds. I got about 15 pounds within reach, but I am not and never have been a naturally thin person with a small frame, and I have hips and wide shoulders. In my case, with age did come wisdom, and know my own body limitations (and strengths!), and hope I can impart some of that wisdom to women who may struggle with reaching some body ideal.

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