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Weighing kids in school
Replies
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Theoldguy1 wrote: »cwolfman13 wrote: »Fidgetbrain wrote: »What do you guys think about it, helpful in combatting obesity or just breeding insecurity in children?
IMO, that's what annual checkups with the children's Dr. is for.
How many children (or adults for that matter) get annual check ups with a doctor?
My daughter (now 19) had a yearly appointment with her doc all the way thru high school. Of course, we have acceptable health insurance, so everything is covered for the yearly visit. She was also active in sports thru high school (soccer and archery) so she had to have physicals to compete.
As to the original question, I think regular screenings should be done - in private - for all children.
Yeh, I was going to say all of our kids went to the dr. every year, as did I when I was younger. Ugh the memories from back then were horrifying for a shy child. There was no discretion when they wanted to do an exam; it was strip and get on the table, no paper thingie, nothing. No wonder I have so many issues around nakedness.
And don't get me started on gym classes followed by mandatory communal showering in middle school. 2 -
I remember being weighed in school. I remember feeling like absolute *kitten* about myself every single time too. I wasn't bullied by the others for it, but I really did hate myself a little bit more every year it came around.
As a child, it's difficult to know how to make changes or even to actually go about making the changes when you're not in control of buying the household food. I don't think being weighed at school ever helped me. Weighing as an adult is fine, but I don't think it's necessary for kids.3 -
Theoldguy1 wrote: »cwolfman13 wrote: »Fidgetbrain wrote: »What do you guys think about it, helpful in combatting obesity or just breeding insecurity in children?
IMO, that's what annual checkups with the children's Dr. is for.
How many children (or adults for that matter) get annual check ups with a doctor?
My daughter (now 19) had a yearly appointment with her doc all the way thru high school. Of course, we have acceptable health insurance, so everything is covered for the yearly visit. She was also active in sports thru high school (soccer and archery) so she had to have physicals to compete.
As to the original question, I think regular screenings should be done - in private - for all children.
Yeh, I was going to say all of our kids went to the dr. every year, as did I when I was younger. Ugh the memories from back then were horrifying for a shy child. There was no discretion when they wanted to do an exam; it was strip and get on the table, no paper thingie, nothing. No wonder I have so many issues around nakedness. And don't get me started on gym classes followed by mandatory communal showering in middle school.
That reminds me, off topic from this thread but we had swimming in middle and high school. We HAD to wear only tankinis or one pieces and were not allowed to wear shorts or tshirt to cover up. I always felt so uncomfortable being in a bathing suit in front of 25 guys and 25 girls. I was the one who always went into the stall to change.2 -
It also occurs to me as an overstepping of boundaries. To me a child's health, including the appropriateness of their weight, is something that is between the child, their parents, and their doctor - not the school system. (Short of suspected abuse or neglect of course, teachers are required to report that already).
Exactly. You and I would have been classified as underweight, maybe even flagged as suspected anorexic. My parents would have howled with laughter if the school had sent home a note with that helpful suggestion. Briefly. Then they would have been quite angry at the intrusiveness of the school.
I got an eye test in maybe 1st or 2nd grade? I was blind as a bat but my parents ignored it for about six more years. Not every parent is open to the school interfering in their business of raising a child.4 -
It also occurs to me as an overstepping of boundaries. To me a child's health, including the appropriateness of their weight, is something that is between the child, their parents, and their doctor - not the school system. (Short of suspected abuse or neglect of course, teachers are required to report that already).
Exactly. You and I would have been classified as underweight, maybe even flagged as suspected anorexic. My parents would have howled with laughter if the school had sent home a note with that helpful suggestion. Briefly. Then they would have been quite angry at the intrusiveness of the school.
I got an eye test in maybe 1st or 2nd grade? I was blind as a bat but my parents ignored it for about six more years. Not every parent is open to the school interfering in their business of raising a child.
Well, in the case of testing vision, this makes a lot more sense from an academic standpoint, so I understand why the school does this. I don't see the school conduction hearing or vision screenings (something that is not routine practice at a lot of doctor's offices) as interfering in their business of raising a child.0 -
Speakeasy76 wrote: »It also occurs to me as an overstepping of boundaries. To me a child's health, including the appropriateness of their weight, is something that is between the child, their parents, and their doctor - not the school system. (Short of suspected abuse or neglect of course, teachers are required to report that already).
Exactly. You and I would have been classified as underweight, maybe even flagged as suspected anorexic. My parents would have howled with laughter if the school had sent home a note with that helpful suggestion. Briefly. Then they would have been quite angry at the intrusiveness of the school.
I got an eye test in maybe 1st or 2nd grade? I was blind as a bat but my parents ignored it for about six more years. Not every parent is open to the school interfering in their business of raising a child.
Well, in the case of testing vision, this makes a lot more sense from an academic standpoint, so I understand why the school does this. I don't see the school conduction hearing or vision screenings (something that is not routine practice at a lot of doctor's offices) as interfering in their business of raising a child.
No, my parents didn't exactly object to the eye test, it just failed to produce any results. (And oddly enough it only took place once, in the early primary years.) Probably because neither of them had a benefit plan at the time so they weren't going to shell out money for glasses. So it was more of a "the school shouldn't be telling me how to spend my money" thing than "the school shouldn't be testing my child's vision".
I don't ever remember having a hearing test until I was being tested for vertigo in my early 20s.1 -
Theoldguy1 wrote: »cwolfman13 wrote: »Fidgetbrain wrote: »What do you guys think about it, helpful in combatting obesity or just breeding insecurity in children?
IMO, that's what annual checkups with the children's Dr. is for.
How many children (or adults for that matter) get annual check ups with a doctor?
I thought all of them do. Guess it depends what country you are in. I'm in Canada and my kids always went for annual checkups. Height and weight checks, vaccine updates, general health concerns.
Once they were old enough (like maybe 12-ish?) we did their usual consult, and then I left the room so that they could discuss/ask questions about anything privately with their doctor.
I always did as a kid growing up in the U.S., but I realize there was a certain amount of middle-class/parent with health insurance privilege in that. Lots of kids in the U.S. don't even get adequate dental care, to the point of losing "adult" teeth before they're even adults.2 -
janejellyroll wrote: »Theoldguy1 wrote: »cwolfman13 wrote: »Fidgetbrain wrote: »What do you guys think about it, helpful in combatting obesity or just breeding insecurity in children?
IMO, that's what annual checkups with the children's Dr. is for.
How many children (or adults for that matter) get annual check ups with a doctor?
I thought all of them do. Guess it depends what country you are in. I'm in Canada and my kids always went for annual checkups. Height and weight checks, vaccine updates, general health concerns.
Once they were old enough (like maybe 12-ish?) we did their usual consult, and then I left the room so that they could discuss/ask questions about anything privately with their doctor.
In theory, the US system of private health insurance and programs like CHIP (children's health insurance program) should result in children being able to see a doctor annually. Based on self-reported household data, it does seem like the US is doing pretty well at meeting that goal: https://wwwn.cdc.gov/NHISDataQueryTool/SHS_child/index.html
"Unknowns were not included in the denominators when calculating percentages."
I think I'd want to know what percentage of the total sample were "unknown" for whether their kid had seen a doctor in the past 12 months.* I would strongly suspect "unknown" on that question to tilt very heavily toward "no" if truth be told.
*If this isn't based on parent or child reporting but instead on actual medical records, I don't understand how there could be any unknowns for this question.1 -
There is nothing wrong with weighing kids at school. Schools do other types of fitness assessments. Kids can go into the nurses office individually and be weighed. The information doesn’t need to be announced publicly. Not every child gets regular medical exams.7
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"Form a line in a corridor and go in singly should be a blindingly obvious solution". To be weighed? You are suggesting that we line kids up in the hallway and take them into a private room individually to be weighed?
Wow - really didn't think the concept of forming an orderly queue needed to be explained.10 -
I guess I am an outlier here, but I think weighing in school as part of a PE fitness program, or health or nutrition education is fine. Weighing youself is a part of normal responsible health maintenance for most people. Modeling doing it in a rountine, non-emotional way can be helpful. It can counteract messages they are receiving from peers and media that treat the scale differently. In many cases, the feedback will be that the child is within normal weight and should actually be placing LESS emphasis on trying to loose weight. Of course, it should be private and treated sensitively, but I would think most grade school or high school teachers or nurses would be capable of that.9
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It also occurs to me as an overstepping of boundaries. To me a child's health, including the appropriateness of their weight, is something that is between the child, their parents, and their doctor - not the school system. (Short of suspected abuse or neglect of course, teachers are required to report that already).
I disagree. The status of a child's weight is an objective measure - underweight, normal, overweight, obese. What do about it MAY be a family concern. I say "may" because many children are not getting productive advice from home. Also, by age 9, children have a lot of latitude to take control of their own eating habits. Many of them have unsupervised access to the kitchen, spending money to use on food, and/or are getting a lot of their food at friend's houses or away from home. Also, many of them are taking dieting into thier own hands by that time by skipping meals without their parents knowledge. Health education at school to help them make good choices is entirely appropriate. Weighing children and relating this education to their actaul weight can be good education.1 -
"Form a line in a corridor and go in singly should be a blindingly obvious solution". To be weighed? You are suggesting that we line kids up in the hallway and take them into a private room individually to be weighed?
Wow - really didn't think the concept of forming an orderly queue needed to be explained.
I understand the concept - I just think it is silly (in this context).
I mean lets shift it to employers then - are those same parents who are apparently too dense to monitor their children's health able to monitor their own? Should they be weighed at their workplace and educated about the results?
Because that is how ridiculous it sounds to me.
(ETA: You know it sucks when you try to have a conversation with someone and just because you don't agree with them they have to throw passive aggressive comments your way. The implication that I need the concept of a queue explained to me was uneccessary. Based on my experiences having three kids going through the school system I have a pretty strong opinion about this - I think weighing kids in school is a ridiculous waste of time - which you clearly disagree with. Doesn't mean you can't be nice.)3 -
"Form a line in a corridor and go in singly should be a blindingly obvious solution". To be weighed? You are suggesting that we line kids up in the hallway and take them into a private room individually to be weighed?
Wow - really didn't think the concept of forming an orderly queue needed to be explained.
I understand the concept - I just think it is silly (in this context).
I mean lets shift it to employers then - are those same parents who are apparently too dense to monitor their children's health able to monitor their own? Should they be weighed at their workplace and educated about the results?
Because that is how ridiculous it sounds to me.
They probably are too dense.
My employer has a program where if you get weighted and fill out a health questionnaire quarterly you get a "discount" on the employee portion of the company health insurance (the information is supposed to go in a blind database). They do send out some sort of computer generated comments on your health habits based on your weight and questionnaire results and offer help with weight reduction, quitting smoking, etc.4 -
Theoldguy1 wrote: »"Form a line in a corridor and go in singly should be a blindingly obvious solution". To be weighed? You are suggesting that we line kids up in the hallway and take them into a private room individually to be weighed?
Wow - really didn't think the concept of forming an orderly queue needed to be explained.
I understand the concept - I just think it is silly (in this context).
I mean lets shift it to employers then - are those same parents who are apparently too dense to monitor their children's health able to monitor their own? Should they be weighed at their workplace and educated about the results?
Because that is how ridiculous it sounds to me.
They probably are too dense.
My employer has a program where if you get weighted and fill out a health questionnaire quarterly you get a "discount" on the employee portion of the company health insurance (the information is supposed to go in a blind database). They do send out some sort of computer generated comments on your health habits based on your weight and questionnaire results and offer help with weight reduction, quitting smoking, etc.
Which is why I think it is a waste of time and resources. I mean what is the end game to it? It's not going to change anything and the school system has enough to worry about without adding pointless "health" protocols to their list.
Perhaps there are also cultural differences involved. I have had three kids go through the Cdn public school system which I felt was already too "unfocused" in their educational approach, trying to be everything to everyone, to the detriment of the quality of education. I would just prefer that they stay in their lane.3 -
I don't have kids, don't have an opinion about weighing them in school - certainly wouldn't offer an opinion without details about the context and purpose, which is vital information.
In the US, I'm quite certain the weight - if recorded - would be part of their "student records" under FERPA (the Family Educational Rights and Privacy Act), to be released only to the student, parents (of those under but not over 18), and such staff of the institution who might reasonbly be defined as having a need to access the records (which is where the purpose/context come in). There are some other allowed releases under the law, but I'd have to look them up (it's things like court orders, speaking very generically.)
There is one exception: Body weights of student athletes on sports teams are not privacy-protected in the same way as body weights of non-athletic-team students.
FERPA, IMU, technically does cover things like announcing or posting personally-identifiable privacy-protected information where others could hear or see it. Sometimes, some institutions are sloppy about that sort of thing, in practice.
My professional background is information technology in a large education institution, where FERPA compliance was a bread and butter issue for me and colleagues. I'd have to look up the very specific exceptions as mentioned above, because my professional understanding and practice was never to release to other than student, or parent of a minor, with exceptions (like the court order kind of thing) to be coordinated through the institution's General Counsel.0 -
"Form a line in a corridor and go in singly should be a blindingly obvious solution". To be weighed? You are suggesting that we line kids up in the hallway and take them into a private room individually to be weighed?
Wow - really didn't think the concept of forming an orderly queue needed to be explained.
I understand the concept - I just think it is silly (in this context).
I mean lets shift it to employers then - are those same parents who are apparently too dense to monitor their children's health able to monitor their own? Should they be weighed at their workplace and educated about the results?
Because that is how ridiculous it sounds to me.
(ETA: You know it sucks when you try to have a conversation with someone and just because you don't agree with them they have to throw passive aggressive comments your way. The implication that I need the concept of a queue explained to me was uneccessary. Based on my experiences having three kids going through the school system I have a pretty strong opinion about this - I think weighing kids in school is a ridiculous waste of time - which you clearly disagree with. Doesn't mean you can't be nice.)
Reading to respond rather than reading to understand isn't "nice" behaviour in a debate.
Not much of a conversation when you make zero effort to understand any other person's points.
If you have to ask
"To be weighed? You are suggesting that we line kids up in the hallway and take them into a private room individually to be weighed?"
when my response to your alarmist suggestion that weighing had to be done in front of their peers was crystal clear.
Canada is not the only country in the world, your healthcare systems are not universal.
Believing Canadian schools shouldn't get involved in children's health screening because you think you a have it covered by other means is a reasonable viewpoint.
But a blanket condemnation of screening being carried out in schools is a very myopic opinion if you can't comprehend that different countries have different needs and different systems in place. Across the world not all children have regular Doctors and of those that do many more will only see them when unwell with no screening taking place.
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Ok this conversation has just taken me on a trip down memory lane.
No opinions here, just recollections, so skip if you wish.
I started school in the UK 1957 aged 4 (my birthday was 3 days before the cut off I was always the shortest and 2nd youngest in the class. The boy who was the youngest was the shortest boy).
(Following covers from age 4-10 while in junior school before moving on to secondary school = N American middle and high school in one school)
From 1957-1963 a few times a year we, as a class, were taken to Firs Hall. Marched a mile through town in a crocodile holding a rope. (An old mansion in lawned grounds, donated to the NHS for school use, that was now squeezed between a petrol station and a pub.)
We were notified of the trip a few days before and parents prepared us accordingly.
Sometimes it was an inspection by Nitty Nora the Bug Explorer, others a jab update, or dental check up, or general health and wellness check up.
For each we were lined up and went in one by one. Nitty was usually doubled with the dentist or a jab so our hair got inspected twice a year, this kept a good flow going.
For the general health and wellness it was follow along a row of screened cubicles till you had been poked and prodded all over.
We were lined up initially but after we had been through the whatever was on the menu that day we were free to go play on the lawns out back. Gosh, just remembered there was a grassed tennis court and ‘bats’. We thought tennis was a posh persons game so this was novel and fun.
After the whatever we were rounded up and walked back to school.
If anything needed attention our parents were notified by letter and appointments made - either a follow up at Firs Hall for eyes and teeth, or with your doctor for anything else.
Nothing was shared with other pupils and the only thing that was shared with the class was an outbreak of ‘nits’, individual cases weren’t shared, shampoo was posted out.
All that to say all the children I knew looked forward to these outings. They were looked upon as adventures by us and a way to get out of class and do something different. Parents appreciated the ‘check-ups’ as their children’s health was monitored without them having to take unpaid time off work to manage preventative care.
I lived in a poor working class town on the outskirts of Manchester where undernourishment was more common than being over weight and both parents usually worked long hours in factories or doing manual labour.
As an add on. We were, until the age of 8, given 1/3 pint of milk at our morning break (to help with nutrition and incase any child hadn’t had breakfast).
We were also provided, at minimal cost, a dinner consisting of meat, potato, and 2 veg followed by dessert at lunchtime as a lot of families couldn’t afford nutritious meals x3 a day and parents were often working at lunchtime.
(I’m my neck of the woods fridges weren’t owned, heck I grew up with a tin bath in front of the fire and an outside toilet.)
PE. We had this 3x1hr a week split into boys or girls.
1 day equipment and floor work, I Day sports, 1day traditional dance.
(I hated them all)
As I said at the beginning, no opinion on how such things should be managed in this day and age, but, I do think what was implemented for me as a child was right for the times. A lot of problems (both mental and physical) were stopped from slipping through the cracks by visits to Firs Hall.
Oh, and I have no memory of me,or anyone else, being shamed.
Cheers, h.
(Apologies for the ramble)5 -
Fidgetbrain wrote: »What do you guys think about it, helpful in combatting obesity or just breeding insecurity in children?
I think it would all depend on what they did with the weight. It would be fine if it was an intro to discussing what is a healthy weight, and how good nutrition plays a role in getting there. The weights should only be for individual self awareness, not for sharing.1 -
"Form a line in a corridor and go in singly should be a blindingly obvious solution". To be weighed? You are suggesting that we line kids up in the hallway and take them into a private room individually to be weighed?
Wow - really didn't think the concept of forming an orderly queue needed to be explained.
I understand the concept - I just think it is silly (in this context).
I mean lets shift it to employers then - are those same parents who are apparently too dense to monitor their children's health able to monitor their own? Should they be weighed at their workplace and educated about the results?
Because that is how ridiculous it sounds to me.
(ETA: You know it sucks when you try to have a conversation with someone and just because you don't agree with them they have to throw passive aggressive comments your way. The implication that I need the concept of a queue explained to me was uneccessary. Based on my experiences having three kids going through the school system I have a pretty strong opinion about this - I think weighing kids in school is a ridiculous waste of time - which you clearly disagree with. Doesn't mean you can't be nice.)
Reading to respond rather than reading to understand isn't "nice" behaviour in a debate.
Not much of a conversation when you make zero effort to understand any other person's points.
If you have to ask
"To be weighed? You are suggesting that we line kids up in the hallway and take them into a private room individually to be weighed?"
when my response to your alarmist suggestion that weighing had to be done in front of their peers was crystal clear.
Canada is not the only country in the world, your healthcare systems are not universal.
Believing Canadian schools shouldn't get involved in children's health screening because you think you a have it covered by other means is a reasonable viewpoint.
But a blanket condemnation of screening being carried out in schools is a very myopic opinion if you can't comprehend that different countries have different needs and different systems in place. Across the world not all children have regular Doctors and of those that do many more will only see them when unwell with no screening taking place.
The assertion that because I don't agree with you I lack comprehension skills, and haven't made any effort to understand the points, is a bit arrogant. I guess I should know by now that expecting debate on the interwebs without ad hominem attacks is too much to ask. Oh well.
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