Coronavirus prep
Replies
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UK, the Cricket series between Us and India has been brought to an early end. Because of Covid in the support team in the Indian side. The decision to withdraw was only taken 2 hours before the game was to start which I agree is short notice. I feel the team should be able to act in the interests of anyone in that team be they players or the back room people. India did not feel they could be sure there would be no more transmission on the field. The players were pcr tested and had not tested positive but close contact and all..................
Now Spectators are being filmed complaining of all the inconvenience it has caused them. Having to try to cancel tonight's accommodation, and the waste of their travel time and and fairs etc. I understand the tickets will be refunded. Yes its a pain but to me is worth the risk of passing covid to anyone. I think they said 80% of us are now fully vaccinated but it carries no guarantee that you won't get it, only that your chances of surviving it are so much better, but the jury is out again because of the Delta Variant.5 -
LiveOnceBeHappy wrote: »callsitlikeiseeit wrote: »I dont know if any of you are on my friends list, if so, you saw this yesterday afternoon, possibly. Yesterday afternoon I was out working in one of our barns and HAPPENED to have my phone on me (okay, I was also taking pics LOL- but truly, i dont USUALLY have my phone out there with me) and it was the school, saying my son had been exposed to covid and i needed to come get him NOW. What follows below tells the rest of the story. This is an email that I sent to one of the reporters that my best friend knows at our local paper. Bestie thought her reporter friend would be very interested in knowing the answer to the questions I (we both) had...
Hello,
You may find this as interesting and perplexing as myself and my best friend did. Between the two of us, we have three students at (school) High. All three are fully vaccinated, as are we. Today, on the third day of school, I received a call from the school nurse saying that my son had been in direct contact with someone with covid and I needed to come pick him up. I was in the middle of something, the nurse sounded a bit harried (which is to be expected) and I did not even think about this until I was on my way to the school. I had called my friend to see if she had also received the call. No, but she says... "Your son is fully vaccinated. Why are you having to pick him up? That's not what the State or CDC guidelines say." I had no answer. Hung up with her, called the school. "My son has been fully vaccinated. I don't remember ever being asked for this information. Would you like me to bring the card or a copy of it so he can stay in school?". After being out on hold for a brief moment, I was told that no, that the 'vaccines apparently were 'useless' and that it was a 10 day quarantine OR we could do a PCR test on September 12 and if negative, bring the results to the school and he could come back'.
I asked again at the school, why a fully vaccinated child had to leave, who was showing no symptoms, who wore a mask all day, and where the child who tested positive ALSO wore a mask all day. I just got shrugged shoulders in response.
My questions are:
When did this school policy change and why were parents not notified?
Why does school policy seem to override State or CDC Guidelines (again, without notification to parents). Is this just (school) or County-wide? An actual policy or knee jerk reaction?
Why does the school get to determine that a vaccine is or is not effective (and science has proven that having the vaccine lessens the chance of getting covid as well as decreases the intensity of it for the majority of people if you DO get it, even with the Delta variant). A school employee telling a parent they don't even KNOW, that a CDC approved vaccine is 'useless' is gross negligence as far as I am concerned, regardless of what that employee's personal feelings are on the matter.
and finally...
If TEACHERS or other staff are directly exposed, are THEY subject to a 10 day quarantine as well? If not... WHY? Because up until this point, the policy was that if they had been fully vaccinated and were showing no symptoms, that even if they had been exposed, they were still allowed (and I believe, expected) to work. If they are going to quarantine 40 students for being exposed to one positive student, but not a teacher who was ALSO exposed, what is the point of allowing the teacher to stay (or bus driver, or cafeteria worker, or janitor, etc) to, in theory, expose even more people? Where is the logic in that?
(end email)
I'm sure eventually my mind would have stumbled on all of these things but right when I got the call I was like 'hurry up and do what I'm doing (Yes I was taking pics but I was also doing other stuff out there LOL) and hurry up AND remember the dates the nurse gave me cause when I asked if she was sending home a letter with these dates she said NO thats why im calling, and i didnt exactly have paper and pen with me out in a BARN. so when i pulled out of my driveway and called bestie and she said that i was like 'oh damn. youre right! why didnt i think of that!' APPARENTLY it doesnt even matter
and i would honestly be shocked (in the area that we live in) if even a half of these kids are vaccinated that qualify for it. So this might be an ongoing thing. and this is exactly (one of the reasons) WHY both of us opted to get the vaccines for our kids. so all of these other people can NOT and thats fine and they can be sent home every other week for 10 days, and as long as our kids remain healthy and show no signs of having it, they can keep carrying their happy little *kitten* to school.
I am a high school teacher. I had a student who was in my classroom who has tested positive for Covid. He is out of course. Because I am fully vaccinated and also have no symptoms, I do not need to quarantine. At the high school, we are not requiring masks for anyone, but a fair number of students choose to wear them and some teachers too. Wearing a mask does not affect if a person needs to quarantine with close contact in our school.
At my workplace, it doesn't matter if someone has been exposed (vaccinated or not), they have to come to work unless they are having symptoms. That is what HR says when someone has been exposed to someone outside of work. But when we had a bunch of people exposed at work, HR demanded they all take the day off and get tested before returning. Sometimes these inconsistent policies are frustrating. Even worse, they don't actually help minimize transmission.20 -
SummerSkier wrote: »the next few months should be interesting here in the US after the President's announcements yesterday afternoon. I know for certain there are folks at my workplace who will not get vaccinated for various reasons. I wonder how they are going to enforce a weekly negative test result. They already have created the "platform" to gather vaccination status (copy of card) via a promotion to get an extra day of vacation and entry into a raffle.
I asked one of my workers if that was incentive enough to get vaccinated and she said no. She also had covid last year and still can't smell anything. So I asked her what WOULD be incentive and she just shook her head. I have talked to another coworker who had delta in August, and she said it was the most awful thing she had ever had (and she was barely not hospitalized mostly because the hospital was full). She was not vaccinated and admitted that her relative who got sick who was vaccinated only had a fever for 3 days whereas she was sick for almost 2 weeks with fever and then pnuemonia. I did NOT ask her if she would get the vaccine because her reason was similar to mine in the past.
She was ex military and back in the day when you had an exercise they gave you ALL the shots. Like me she got very sick and swore never to get the flu shot etc again. I changed my mind in 2018 when I got the flu for the first time (due to open workspace I am sure) and it was pretty awful. I lost my sense of taste for a few days and it took me almost a month to get my energy back. So I got the flu shot after that, and it wasn't bad at all and it was only the last one in 2020 that my arm was even sore. I tried to tell her that the vaccinations from the 80's and 90's had possibly changed over time and her military reaction might have been from getting ALL the shots together but that fell on deaf ears. I know part of the reason like her many will not get vaccinated is the fear of a reaction.
My work started Biden's policy August 1 on our own. Unvaxed employees must submit the email they receive from the testing site, either positive or negative to HR not later than noon on Monday. If HR hasn't received the email by the start of business Monday morning, the employee is required to stay home and use their PTO until the email is received.
If it's not received by noon...like literally if it's 12:01, the employee receives a "strike" and is required to stay home and use their leave the rest of the day and until the email is received by HR as well as a verbal reprimand and reminder of the protocols and consequences for breaking those protocols. A second "strike" results in a two day unpaid suspension and a formal written reprimand to be placed in the employees file. A third "strike" is immediate termination of employment.
Employees are given 1 hour of leave during the work week to go get tested. In the beginning, many of them were waiting until Friday and knocking off an hour early to go get tested. A couple weeks after we implemented, it became mandatory for educators to do the same and other companies in town also adopted making test sites once again relatively busy and getting results went from 24 hours or less to now about 72+ hours, so quite a few people ended up with a strike. They fought it of course, saying they have no control over how long the results take...the response was pretty much that there's no requirement to wait until the end of the day on Friday to test.
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SummerSkier wrote: »the next few months should be interesting here in the US after the President's announcements yesterday afternoon. I know for certain there are folks at my workplace who will not get vaccinated for various reasons. I wonder how they are going to enforce a weekly negative test result. They already have created the "platform" to gather vaccination status (copy of card) via a promotion to get an extra day of vacation and entry into a raffle.
I asked one of my workers if that was incentive enough to get vaccinated and she said no. She also had covid last year and still can't smell anything. So I asked her what WOULD be incentive and she just shook her head. I have talked to another coworker who had delta in August, and she said it was the most awful thing she had ever had (and she was barely not hospitalized mostly because the hospital was full). She was not vaccinated and admitted that her relative who got sick who was vaccinated only had a fever for 3 days whereas she was sick for almost 2 weeks with fever and then pnuemonia. I did NOT ask her if she would get the vaccine because her reason was similar to mine in the past.
She was ex military and back in the day when you had an exercise they gave you ALL the shots. Like me she got very sick and swore never to get the flu shot etc again. I changed my mind in 2018 when I got the flu for the first time (due to open workspace I am sure) and it was pretty awful. I lost my sense of taste for a few days and it took me almost a month to get my energy back. So I got the flu shot after that, and it wasn't bad at all and it was only the last one in 2020 that my arm was even sore. I tried to tell her that the vaccinations from the 80's and 90's had possibly changed over time and her military reaction might have been from getting ALL the shots together but that fell on deaf ears. I know part of the reason like her many will not get vaccinated is the fear of a reaction.
Isn't collecting copies of the vax card kind of meaningless without some way to verify authenticity, though? How do they stop the anti-vaxxers from printing off a bogus one, fudging the info, and submitting it to reap the rewards? As far as I understand it, there is still no real way to validate and weed out the fakes.4 -
SummerSkier wrote: »the next few months should be interesting here in the US after the President's announcements yesterday afternoon. I know for certain there are folks at my workplace who will not get vaccinated for various reasons. I wonder how they are going to enforce a weekly negative test result. They already have created the "platform" to gather vaccination status (copy of card) via a promotion to get an extra day of vacation and entry into a raffle.
I asked one of my workers if that was incentive enough to get vaccinated and she said no. She also had covid last year and still can't smell anything. So I asked her what WOULD be incentive and she just shook her head. I have talked to another coworker who had delta in August, and she said it was the most awful thing she had ever had (and she was barely not hospitalized mostly because the hospital was full). She was not vaccinated and admitted that her relative who got sick who was vaccinated only had a fever for 3 days whereas she was sick for almost 2 weeks with fever and then pnuemonia. I did NOT ask her if she would get the vaccine because her reason was similar to mine in the past.
She was ex military and back in the day when you had an exercise they gave you ALL the shots. Like me she got very sick and swore never to get the flu shot etc again. I changed my mind in 2018 when I got the flu for the first time (due to open workspace I am sure) and it was pretty awful. I lost my sense of taste for a few days and it took me almost a month to get my energy back. So I got the flu shot after that, and it wasn't bad at all and it was only the last one in 2020 that my arm was even sore. I tried to tell her that the vaccinations from the 80's and 90's had possibly changed over time and her military reaction might have been from getting ALL the shots together but that fell on deaf ears. I know part of the reason like her many will not get vaccinated is the fear of a reaction.
Isn't collecting copies of the vax card kind of meaningless without some way to verify authenticity, though? How do they stop the anti-vaxxers from printing off a bogus one, fudging the info, and submitting it to reap the rewards? As far as I understand it, there is still no real way to validate and weed out the fakes.
States and the Federal government have already been cracking down on this. There is a black market and I'm sure there are some who will use it, but I don't think the vast majority of people will be going out and getting fake cards. They're expensive (guy in CA was busted by the Feds selling at $20 a pop) and it is also a federal offense to poses or sell as a valid vax card must have the official CDC logo and therefore considered forging of a federal document and that comes with serious consequences if caught, and people are being caught. I would also anticipate the black market price to continue to rise with these kinds of mandates.
As vax mandates become more prolific, I would also imagine states will follow the route of NY, Illinois, and California with digital verification records, where those records come directly from their state DOH as proof of vaccination status.
Yes, there will always be bad actors...as far as I know fake driver's licenses haven't gone away, but we still require that photo ID for many things. The vast majority of people aren't going to10 -
I just can't imagine what kind of nightmare this is going to turn into for certain industries to try and enforce this. I used to work for a large trucking company, and many of the truckers would go on the road for weeks at a time. They wouldn't have access to testing sites while on the road, and that demographic seems to have a large overlap with the anti-vax, so will all the drivers jump ship and go work for smaller transportation firms that are exempt from the regulations? It will be interesting to see how the economics of it all plays out.6
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cwolfman13 wrote: »SummerSkier wrote: »the next few months should be interesting here in the US after the President's announcements yesterday afternoon. I know for certain there are folks at my workplace who will not get vaccinated for various reasons. I wonder how they are going to enforce a weekly negative test result. They already have created the "platform" to gather vaccination status (copy of card) via a promotion to get an extra day of vacation and entry into a raffle.
I asked one of my workers if that was incentive enough to get vaccinated and she said no. She also had covid last year and still can't smell anything. So I asked her what WOULD be incentive and she just shook her head. I have talked to another coworker who had delta in August, and she said it was the most awful thing she had ever had (and she was barely not hospitalized mostly because the hospital was full). She was not vaccinated and admitted that her relative who got sick who was vaccinated only had a fever for 3 days whereas she was sick for almost 2 weeks with fever and then pnuemonia. I did NOT ask her if she would get the vaccine because her reason was similar to mine in the past.
She was ex military and back in the day when you had an exercise they gave you ALL the shots. Like me she got very sick and swore never to get the flu shot etc again. I changed my mind in 2018 when I got the flu for the first time (due to open workspace I am sure) and it was pretty awful. I lost my sense of taste for a few days and it took me almost a month to get my energy back. So I got the flu shot after that, and it wasn't bad at all and it was only the last one in 2020 that my arm was even sore. I tried to tell her that the vaccinations from the 80's and 90's had possibly changed over time and her military reaction might have been from getting ALL the shots together but that fell on deaf ears. I know part of the reason like her many will not get vaccinated is the fear of a reaction.
Isn't collecting copies of the vax card kind of meaningless without some way to verify authenticity, though? How do they stop the anti-vaxxers from printing off a bogus one, fudging the info, and submitting it to reap the rewards? As far as I understand it, there is still no real way to validate and weed out the fakes.
States and the Federal government have already been cracking down on this. There is a black market and I'm sure there are some who will use it, but I don't think the vast majority of people will be going out and getting fake cards. They're expensive (guy in CA was busted by the Feds selling at $20 a pop) and it is also a federal offense to poses or sell as a valid vax card must have the official CDC logo and therefore considered forging of a federal document and that comes with serious consequences if caught, and people are being caught. I would also anticipate the black market price to continue to rise with these kinds of mandates.
As vax mandates become more prolific, I would also imagine states will follow the route of NY, Illinois, and California with digital verification records, where those records come directly from their state DOH as proof of vaccination status.
Yes, there will always be bad actors...as far as I know fake driver's licenses haven't gone away, but we still require that photo ID for many things. The vast majority of people aren't going to
Yes, and I think that while some people may feel okay using a fake vaccine card to, say, get into a concert...the same people might be very hesitant to submit one officially to their employer. The consequences of getting caught would be much greater.
Just like some people would use a fake ID to get into a bar while underage...but wouldn't try to use one for getting on an airplane.12 -
SummerSkier wrote: »the next few months should be interesting here in the US after the President's announcements yesterday afternoon. I know for certain there are folks at my workplace who will not get vaccinated for various reasons. I wonder how they are going to enforce a weekly negative test result. They already have created the "platform" to gather vaccination status (copy of card) via a promotion to get an extra day of vacation and entry into a raffle.
I asked one of my workers if that was incentive enough to get vaccinated and she said no. She also had covid last year and still can't smell anything. So I asked her what WOULD be incentive and she just shook her head. I have talked to another coworker who had delta in August, and she said it was the most awful thing she had ever had (and she was barely not hospitalized mostly because the hospital was full). She was not vaccinated and admitted that her relative who got sick who was vaccinated only had a fever for 3 days whereas she was sick for almost 2 weeks with fever and then pnuemonia. I did NOT ask her if she would get the vaccine because her reason was similar to mine in the past.
She was ex military and back in the day when you had an exercise they gave you ALL the shots. Like me she got very sick and swore never to get the flu shot etc again. I changed my mind in 2018 when I got the flu for the first time (due to open workspace I am sure) and it was pretty awful. I lost my sense of taste for a few days and it took me almost a month to get my energy back. So I got the flu shot after that, and it wasn't bad at all and it was only the last one in 2020 that my arm was even sore. I tried to tell her that the vaccinations from the 80's and 90's had possibly changed over time and her military reaction might have been from getting ALL the shots together but that fell on deaf ears. I know part of the reason like her many will not get vaccinated is the fear of a reaction.
Isn't collecting copies of the vax card kind of meaningless without some way to verify authenticity, though? How do they stop the anti-vaxxers from printing off a bogus one, fudging the info, and submitting it to reap the rewards? As far as I understand it, there is still no real way to validate and weed out the fakes.
I'm not certain of this, but I think some states already had some kind of central record of these, through the health departments somehow. I can't prove it, but my impression was that my state (Michigan) was checking people who signed up for the "I got vaxed" lottery against some central data repository, making sure the entrants were really vaxed. Not positive, though.
Whether employers would be able to validate against those records or not is a separate question. (Note that in at least some places they can do background checks, criminal records checks, I think validate drivers' licenses, for sure can validate other licenses, etc. I'm not saying I think states would turn over some central vax database to employers (if it exists) but that there might be a portal for authorized entities to provide identification and vax info, get back a "real" or "no" indication.)4 -
LiveOnceBeHappy wrote: »
I am a high school teacher. I had a student who was in my classroom who has tested positive for Covid. He is out of course. Because I am fully vaccinated and also have no symptoms, I do not need to quarantine. At the high school, we are not requiring masks for anyone, but a fair number of students choose to wear them and some teachers too. Wearing a mask does not affect if a person needs to quarantine with close contact in our school.
Our state does mandate all students and staff to wear masksTheoldguy1 wrote: »
The school doesn't need parents running to newspaper without letting the administration calmly explaining the situation to you and if needed sending a clarification email out to the parents.
They have enough to do without being bugged by a local paper.
Well, maybe if they had answered my questions (to TWO different employees) or followed their OWN policies, I would not have.rheddmobile wrote: »About the second time some parent said, “Oh, we knew he had the sniffles but he has fall allergies,” or, “We gave her a Tylenol to bring her fever down because I can’t take time off work to stay with her,” I also would be changing the policy to say all exposed students are treated as symptomatic until proven otherwise.
Do that and at any given time, you will be having over half the school out waiting for covid tests to come back.Theoldguy1 wrote: »
Saw that. She needed to have some additional discussion/clarification with the school.
My wife was a supervisor for a special ed district when this all started. They were getting updates on procedures from the state government, regional office of education, seeing things on the news often not the exact same thing.
Got to remember nobody in the school is an expert on handling a pandemic. Need to cut them some slack, they are trying to do the right thing.
Doing the best they can - all they need to do is follow their OWN school system guidelines. Which they were NOT.
INTERESTINGLY enough... my best friend received a call from the school this morning telling HER to come pick up HER children. She flat out refused. Said that they had been vaccinated and that unless they were displaying symptoms, that THEY were in violation of their OWN policy by demanding that she pick them up. That she would be more than happy to bring them a copy of their vaccine card for their records and provide that information.
She was told to email a copy of it to a certain person at the main office, and her children remained in school.
Guess whose son will be in school Monday morning? Unless of course, he seems to get sick between now and then, or is running a temperature. I will check. But assuming all is well, I will email that person, and take him to school a bit late. With a copy of the card as well.8 -
callsitlikeiseeit wrote: »LiveOnceBeHappy wrote: »
I am a high school teacher. I had a student who was in my classroom who has tested positive for Covid. He is out of course. Because I am fully vaccinated and also have no symptoms, I do not need to quarantine. At the high school, we are not requiring masks for anyone, but a fair number of students choose to wear them and some teachers too. Wearing a mask does not affect if a person needs to quarantine with close contact in our school.
Our state does mandate all students and staff to wear masksTheoldguy1 wrote: »
The school doesn't need parents running to newspaper without letting the administration calmly explaining the situation to you and if needed sending a clarification email out to the parents.
They have enough to do without being bugged by a local paper.
Well, maybe if they had answered my questions (to TWO different employees) or followed their OWN policies, I would not have.rheddmobile wrote: »About the second time some parent said, “Oh, we knew he had the sniffles but he has fall allergies,” or, “We gave her a Tylenol to bring her fever down because I can’t take time off work to stay with her,” I also would be changing the policy to say all exposed students are treated as symptomatic until proven otherwise.
Do that and at any given time, you will be having over half the school out waiting for covid tests to come back.Theoldguy1 wrote: »
Saw that. She needed to have some additional discussion/clarification with the school.
My wife was a supervisor for a special ed district when this all started. They were getting updates on procedures from the state government, regional office of education, seeing things on the news often not the exact same thing.
Got to remember nobody in the school is an expert on handling a pandemic. Need to cut them some slack, they are trying to do the right thing.
Doing the best they can - all they need to do is follow their OWN school system guidelines. Which they were NOT.
INTERESTINGLY enough... my best friend received a call from the school this morning telling HER to come pick up HER children. She flat out refused. Said that they had been vaccinated and that unless they were displaying symptoms, that THEY were in violation of their OWN policy by demanding that she pick them up. That she would be more than happy to bring them a copy of their vaccine card for their records and provide that information.
She was told to email a copy of it to a certain person at the main office, and her children remained in school.
Guess whose son will be in school Monday morning? Unless of course, he seems to get sick between now and then, or is running a temperature. I will check. But assuming all is well, I will email that person, and take him to school a bit late. With a copy of the card as well.
Sounds to me like there's a consistency problem. Employees don't seem to know what the policy is. They need a straightforward plan that is made clear to all and consistently followed.
It's not OK if school officials are negotiating terms with some parents and steamrolling others. Seems that pushier parents are being allowed to email vax cards and keep their kids in class if they insist, while more passive parents are picking their kids up and quarantining, even though the situation is the same. I guess if there isn't a "difficult" parent putting pressure on them, it's easier to just send everyone home and not have to deal.
This is incompetent management. The implementation needs to be equitable. Either all the vaxxed are offered opportunity to prove status and stay in school, or all go home and quarantine. Pick a policy and stick with it.13 -
the next few months should be interesting here in the US after the President's announcements yesterday afternoon.
Could somebody please briefly outline, for the benifit of non US readers like me, what these announcements were.3 -
cwolfman13 wrote: »SummerSkier wrote: »the next few months should be interesting here in the US after the President's announcements yesterday afternoon. I know for certain there are folks at my workplace who will not get vaccinated for various reasons. I wonder how they are going to enforce a weekly negative test result. They already have created the "platform" to gather vaccination status (copy of card) via a promotion to get an extra day of vacation and entry into a raffle.
I asked one of my workers if that was incentive enough to get vaccinated and she said no. She also had covid last year and still can't smell anything. So I asked her what WOULD be incentive and she just shook her head. I have talked to another coworker who had delta in August, and she said it was the most awful thing she had ever had (and she was barely not hospitalized mostly because the hospital was full). She was not vaccinated and admitted that her relative who got sick who was vaccinated only had a fever for 3 days whereas she was sick for almost 2 weeks with fever and then pnuemonia. I did NOT ask her if she would get the vaccine because her reason was similar to mine in the past.
She was ex military and back in the day when you had an exercise they gave you ALL the shots. Like me she got very sick and swore never to get the flu shot etc again. I changed my mind in 2018 when I got the flu for the first time (due to open workspace I am sure) and it was pretty awful. I lost my sense of taste for a few days and it took me almost a month to get my energy back. So I got the flu shot after that, and it wasn't bad at all and it was only the last one in 2020 that my arm was even sore. I tried to tell her that the vaccinations from the 80's and 90's had possibly changed over time and her military reaction might have been from getting ALL the shots together but that fell on deaf ears. I know part of the reason like her many will not get vaccinated is the fear of a reaction.
Isn't collecting copies of the vax card kind of meaningless without some way to verify authenticity, though? How do they stop the anti-vaxxers from printing off a bogus one, fudging the info, and submitting it to reap the rewards? As far as I understand it, there is still no real way to validate and weed out the fakes.
States and the Federal government have already been cracking down on this. There is a black market and I'm sure there are some who will use it, but I don't think the vast majority of people will be going out and getting fake cards. They're expensive (guy in CA was busted by the Feds selling at $20 a pop) and it is also a federal offense to poses or sell as a valid vax card must have the official CDC logo and therefore considered forging of a federal document and that comes with serious consequences if caught, and people are being caught. I would also anticipate the black market price to continue to rise with these kinds of mandates.
As vax mandates become more prolific, I would also imagine states will follow the route of NY, Illinois, and California with digital verification records, where those records come directly from their state DOH as proof of vaccination status.
Yes, there will always be bad actors...as far as I know fake driver's licenses haven't gone away, but we still require that photo ID for many things. The vast majority of people aren't going to
Re: the black market - it would take a person who was competent in any editing program with access to a decent printer about an hour to make a fake card. In Tennessee they ran out of cards in the early stages so sent a pdf of the form to vax sites with instructions to print their own cards. Not sure how you would tell one printed by a random small county health department from one printed by a random antivaxxer.
I feel like this is all theater since Delta means that you are almost as likely to catch the virus from a vaccinated person as an unvaccinated one. There was a time when it could have made a difference but that time has passed.4 -
paperpudding wrote: »the next few months should be interesting here in the US after the President's announcements yesterday afternoon.
Could somebody please briefly outline, for the benifit of non US readers like me, what these announcements were.
The main new thing is that he plans to require all employers with 100 or more employees to make sure their employees are vaccinated, or have them test negative on a weekly basis to enter the workplace.10 -
rheddmobile wrote: »cwolfman13 wrote: »SummerSkier wrote: »the next few months should be interesting here in the US after the President's announcements yesterday afternoon. I know for certain there are folks at my workplace who will not get vaccinated for various reasons. I wonder how they are going to enforce a weekly negative test result. They already have created the "platform" to gather vaccination status (copy of card) via a promotion to get an extra day of vacation and entry into a raffle.
I asked one of my workers if that was incentive enough to get vaccinated and she said no. She also had covid last year and still can't smell anything. So I asked her what WOULD be incentive and she just shook her head. I have talked to another coworker who had delta in August, and she said it was the most awful thing she had ever had (and she was barely not hospitalized mostly because the hospital was full). She was not vaccinated and admitted that her relative who got sick who was vaccinated only had a fever for 3 days whereas she was sick for almost 2 weeks with fever and then pnuemonia. I did NOT ask her if she would get the vaccine because her reason was similar to mine in the past.
She was ex military and back in the day when you had an exercise they gave you ALL the shots. Like me she got very sick and swore never to get the flu shot etc again. I changed my mind in 2018 when I got the flu for the first time (due to open workspace I am sure) and it was pretty awful. I lost my sense of taste for a few days and it took me almost a month to get my energy back. So I got the flu shot after that, and it wasn't bad at all and it was only the last one in 2020 that my arm was even sore. I tried to tell her that the vaccinations from the 80's and 90's had possibly changed over time and her military reaction might have been from getting ALL the shots together but that fell on deaf ears. I know part of the reason like her many will not get vaccinated is the fear of a reaction.
Isn't collecting copies of the vax card kind of meaningless without some way to verify authenticity, though? How do they stop the anti-vaxxers from printing off a bogus one, fudging the info, and submitting it to reap the rewards? As far as I understand it, there is still no real way to validate and weed out the fakes.
States and the Federal government have already been cracking down on this. There is a black market and I'm sure there are some who will use it, but I don't think the vast majority of people will be going out and getting fake cards. They're expensive (guy in CA was busted by the Feds selling at $20 a pop) and it is also a federal offense to poses or sell as a valid vax card must have the official CDC logo and therefore considered forging of a federal document and that comes with serious consequences if caught, and people are being caught. I would also anticipate the black market price to continue to rise with these kinds of mandates.
As vax mandates become more prolific, I would also imagine states will follow the route of NY, Illinois, and California with digital verification records, where those records come directly from their state DOH as proof of vaccination status.
Yes, there will always be bad actors...as far as I know fake driver's licenses haven't gone away, but we still require that photo ID for many things. The vast majority of people aren't going to
Re: the black market - it would take a person who was competent in any editing program with access to a decent printer about an hour to make a fake card. In Tennessee they ran out of cards in the early stages so sent a pdf of the form to vax sites with instructions to print their own cards. Not sure how you would tell one printed by a random small county health department from one printed by a random antivaxxer.
I feel like this is all theater since Delta means that you are almost as likely to catch the virus from a vaccinated person as an unvaccinated one. There was a time when it could have made a difference but that time has passed.
Your "all theater" remark nailed it!
Closing the gate after all of the livestock has gotten out is counter productive. Now the lawsuits and count lawsuits begin.3 -
lynn_glenmont wrote: »paperpudding wrote: »the next few months should be interesting here in the US after the President's announcements yesterday afternoon.
Could somebody please briefly outline, for the benifit of non US readers like me, what these announcements were.
The main new thing is that he plans to require all employers with 100 or more employees to make sure their employees are vaccinated, or have them test negative on a weekly basis to enter the workplace.
Thank you.
Yes that could be interesting.
So it is regardless of occupational purpose of the business?
Here in Australia the only mandatory employment so far is Aged Care. All employees must have had at least one dose by Sept 17th.
Temporary exemption for pregnancy ( yes I know you can have the vaccine in pregnancy but they are allowing you to have it after if you choose) and permanent in extremely specific contraindications.
I work in a medical centre and we run covid vaccines clinics.
Had a man last week wanting an exemption because he and his partner were trying to conceive a baby
Became very abusive when Dr refused - naturally since there is no such contraindication and any man could just claim that.
7 -
https://www.wpsdlocal6.com/news/kentucky-national-guardsmen-headed-to-local-6-hospitals-next-week/article_783c5460-11ce-11ec-a714-2f36fcf56c99.html
Back ordered medical supplies/meds are an issue as well as staff shortages.1 -
callsitlikeiseeit wrote: »LiveOnceBeHappy wrote: »
I am a high school teacher. I had a student who was in my classroom who has tested positive for Covid. He is out of course. Because I am fully vaccinated and also have no symptoms, I do not need to quarantine. At the high school, we are not requiring masks for anyone, but a fair number of students choose to wear them and some teachers too. Wearing a mask does not affect if a person needs to quarantine with close contact in our school.
Our state does mandate all students and staff to wear masksTheoldguy1 wrote: »
The school doesn't need parents running to newspaper without letting the administration calmly explaining the situation to you and if needed sending a clarification email out to the parents.
They have enough to do without being bugged by a local paper.
Well, maybe if they had answered my questions (to TWO different employees) or followed their OWN policies, I would not have.rheddmobile wrote: »About the second time some parent said, “Oh, we knew he had the sniffles but he has fall allergies,” or, “We gave her a Tylenol to bring her fever down because I can’t take time off work to stay with her,” I also would be changing the policy to say all exposed students are treated as symptomatic until proven otherwise.
Do that and at any given time, you will be having over half the school out waiting for covid tests to come back.Theoldguy1 wrote: »
Saw that. She needed to have some additional discussion/clarification with the school.
My wife was a supervisor for a special ed district when this all started. They were getting updates on procedures from the state government, regional office of education, seeing things on the news often not the exact same thing.
Got to remember nobody in the school is an expert on handling a pandemic. Need to cut them some slack, they are trying to do the right thing.
Doing the best they can - all they need to do is follow their OWN school system guidelines. Which they were NOT.
INTERESTINGLY enough... my best friend received a call from the school this morning telling HER to come pick up HER children. She flat out refused. Said that they had been vaccinated and that unless they were displaying symptoms, that THEY were in violation of their OWN policy by demanding that she pick them up. That she would be more than happy to bring them a copy of their vaccine card for their records and provide that information.
She was told to email a copy of it to a certain person at the main office, and her children remained in school.
Guess whose son will be in school Monday morning? Unless of course, he seems to get sick between now and then, or is running a temperature. I will check. But assuming all is well, I will email that person, and take him to school a bit late. With a copy of the card as well.
Sounds to me like there's a consistency problem. Employees don't seem to know what the policy is. They need a straightforward plan that is made clear to all and consistently followed.
It's not OK if school officials are negotiating terms with some parents and steamrolling others. Seems that pushier parents are being allowed to email vax cards and keep their kids in class if they insist, while more passive parents are picking their kids up and quarantining, even though the situation is the same. I guess if there isn't a "difficult" parent putting pressure on them, it's easier to just send everyone home and not have to deal.
This is incompetent management. The implementation needs to be equitable. Either all the vaxxed are offered opportunity to prove status and stay in school, or all go home and quarantine. Pick a policy and stick with it.
welcome to our school system.
She had the advantage over me, in that she wasnt caught off guard and had time to go back and re-verify the policy after we had talked the day before, whereas I was in a barn dealing with an animal with a broken leg, keep it safe, me safe, go as quickly as possible (because even though my kid wasnt sick she wanted him gone NOW, and remember dates and info she couldnt be bothered to have a secretary type up a form letter and run off 40 copies for, for the parents).
sigh..... 4 more years. thats all. 4 more years. (of this school system. hopefully not of covid but i wont hold my breath for that, either LOL)8 -
paperpudding wrote: »lynn_glenmont wrote: »paperpudding wrote: »the next few months should be interesting here in the US after the President's announcements yesterday afternoon.
Could somebody please briefly outline, for the benifit of non US readers like me, what these announcements were.
The main new thing is that he plans to require all employers with 100 or more employees to make sure their employees are vaccinated, or have them test negative on a weekly basis to enter the workplace.
Thank you.
Yes that could be interesting.
So it is regardless of occupational purpose of the business?
Here in Australia the only mandatory employment so far is Aged Care. All employees must have had at least one dose by Sept 17th.
Temporary exemption for pregnancy ( yes I know you can have the vaccine in pregnancy but they are allowing you to have it after if you choose) and permanent in extremely specific contraindications.
I work in a medical centre and we run covid vaccines clinics.
Had a man last week wanting an exemption because he and his partner were trying to conceive a baby
Became very abusive when Dr refused - naturally since there is no such contraindication and any man could just claim that.
Tasmanian government has introduced mandatory vaccination deadlines for those working in health settings. Qantas and some other employers have also introduced mandatory vaccination for employees.
This is an interesting read, it's written by the owner of MONA in Tasmania as to why he is requiring employees to have vaccinations https://mona.net.au/blog/2021/09/traffic-lights4 -
paperpudding wrote: »lynn_glenmont wrote: »paperpudding wrote: »the next few months should be interesting here in the US after the President's announcements yesterday afternoon.
Could somebody please briefly outline, for the benifit of non US readers like me, what these announcements were.
The main new thing is that he plans to require all employers with 100 or more employees to make sure their employees are vaccinated, or have them test negative on a weekly basis to enter the workplace.
Thank you.
Yes that could be interesting.
So it is regardless of occupational purpose of the business?
Here in Australia the only mandatory employment so far is Aged Care. All employees must have had at least one dose by Sept 17th.
Temporary exemption for pregnancy ( yes I know you can have the vaccine in pregnancy but they are allowing you to have it after if you choose) and permanent in extremely specific contraindications.
I work in a medical centre and we run covid vaccines clinics.
Had a man last week wanting an exemption because he and his partner were trying to conceive a baby
Became very abusive when Dr refused - naturally since there is no such contraindication and any man could just claim that.
Yes, every employer with 100 or more employees, regardless of the nature of the business.
Many companies were already doing this, including mine, WITHOUT the option of weekly testing instead of vaccination. The government mandate allows you to test weekly if you choose not to get vaccinated. Personally, I believe weekly testing is pointless, but I guess they had to give people that option.
There is precedent for the federal government regulating worker safety issues in private companies, so that should handle the legal challenges.9 -
callsitlikeiseeit wrote: »LiveOnceBeHappy wrote: »
I am a high school teacher. I had a student who was in my classroom who has tested positive for Covid. He is out of course. Because I am fully vaccinated and also have no symptoms, I do not need to quarantine. At the high school, we are not requiring masks for anyone, but a fair number of students choose to wear them and some teachers too. Wearing a mask does not affect if a person needs to quarantine with close contact in our school.
Our state does mandate all students and staff to wear masksTheoldguy1 wrote: »
The school doesn't need parents running to newspaper without letting the administration calmly explaining the situation to you and if needed sending a clarification email out to the parents.
They have enough to do without being bugged by a local paper.
Well, maybe if they had answered my questions (to TWO different employees) or followed their OWN policies, I would not have.rheddmobile wrote: »About the second time some parent said, “Oh, we knew he had the sniffles but he has fall allergies,” or, “We gave her a Tylenol to bring her fever down because I can’t take time off work to stay with her,” I also would be changing the policy to say all exposed students are treated as symptomatic until proven otherwise.
Do that and at any given time, you will be having over half the school out waiting for covid tests to come back.Theoldguy1 wrote: »
Saw that. She needed to have some additional discussion/clarification with the school.
My wife was a supervisor for a special ed district when this all started. They were getting updates on procedures from the state government, regional office of education, seeing things on the news often not the exact same thing.
Got to remember nobody in the school is an expert on handling a pandemic. Need to cut them some slack, they are trying to do the right thing.
Doing the best they can - all they need to do is follow their OWN school system guidelines. Which they were NOT.
INTERESTINGLY enough... my best friend received a call from the school this morning telling HER to come pick up HER children. She flat out refused. Said that they had been vaccinated and that unless they were displaying symptoms, that THEY were in violation of their OWN policy by demanding that she pick them up. That she would be more than happy to bring them a copy of their vaccine card for their records and provide that information.
She was told to email a copy of it to a certain person at the main office, and her children remained in school.
Guess whose son will be in school Monday morning? Unless of course, he seems to get sick between now and then, or is running a temperature. I will check. But assuming all is well, I will email that person, and take him to school a bit late. With a copy of the card as well.
The biggest problem school districts are facing though all is dealing with the Karens, Kens and their "Special Snowflake" offspring.11
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