Coronavirus prep

Does anyone get the impression that even people who have been generally compliant with wearing a mask are now "ready to ditch the masks" on the strength of "I just had COVID and it wasn't so bad" Omicron?

Yea, I did too and it was a non event. Could see the metrics tanking on Fitbit (heart rate variability down, resting heart rate up, breaths per minute going up, one day of oxygen saturation going down in spite of bpm going up) and was feeling like on the way down with a nasty nasty cold/flu that was just starting to take hold for a couple of days and then overnight it reversed to "I just had the flu a day or so ago and I'm now recovering or fully recovered". Which lasted for just about 10 days--and no evidence of anything going on via Fitbit other than on one day when I was really short of sleep and both metrics and mild symptoms appeared.

So, I get it: non event for most of us... well, except for the number of people who still ended up in hospital.

When looking around, there exist a number of people who got both Delta and Omicron. So Omicron is unlikely to confer magical immunity.

Why are we all so sure that there is no future Delta lurking out there just because Omicron was so wide spread? How painful is it really to wear a mask when out amongst people?

I am planning to continue to, though I suspect that given the anti-masking vehemence I may choose to just leave venues as oppose to argue the case.

ahoy_m8 wrote: »

https://www.nytimes.com/2022/02/21/health/covid-vaccine-antibodies-t-cells.html
A good read. The lede:

How long until you need another covid shot? Not for many months, and perhaps not for years, according to a flurry of new studies. Three doses of a Covid vaccine — or even just two — are enough to protect most people from serious illness and death for a long time, the studies suggest.

“We’re starting to see now diminishing returns on the number of additional doses,” said John Wherry, director of the Institute for immunology at the University of Pennsylvania.

People here are getting 4th shots. I waited until December for my 3rd (to maximize antibodies for when 3 DD came home for extended holiday - and it was a petri dish here!). I'll probably wait until the next variant wave for the 4th.

About masks, I've followed a pretty simple guideline for almost a year.

• I wear a mask places that are generally non-discretionary for vulnerable people--pharmacies, grocery stores, public transit, medical settings.
• I don't places that are discretionary-- restaurants, bars, entertainment venues (unless required by the venue). I figure vulnerable people can avoid those spots if they need to.

That said, we have been very sparing about eating out.

It's refreshing to see someone who's so clearly parsing out when and where their actions can reduce risk for other (possibly more vulnerable) people, vs. acting different when and where people are signaling behaviorally that they're accepting greater risk for themselves. That seems both smart and kind.

As of today, Coachella isn't going to have a mask, vaccine, or covid test requirement. But that will change if the mandate changes.

Freaking stupid, if you ask me.

PAV8888 wrote: »

Does anyone get the impression that even people who have been generally compliant with wearing a mask are now "ready to ditch the masks" on the strength of "I just had COVID and it wasn't so bad" Omicron?

I'm sure for some...but for many it's fatigue with the whole thing. Almost everyone I know personally is fully vaxed and boosted and has worn masks everywhere as mandated by the state...vaccination and mask compliance in my state is very high, at least in most of the urban population...and almost everyone I know personally contracted COVID in January. I think there comes a point where people ask, "what really is the point?" Add to that, so many situations where the mask mandate just didn't make sense at all...like having to wear one to enter a restaurant, but being allowed to take it off as soon as you sit down...but have to put in on to walk to the bathroom...but you can sit there for an hour without one and eat and drink...same for brew pubs, bars, movie theaters, sports and concert venues, etc.

Myself and most of the people I know feel that vaccination has played a large roll in having very minor symptoms or being completely asymptomatic altogether and perhaps masks, while offering some protection, really don't do that much. Add to that, I and my wife wore KN95 masks, but for the most part when out and about we primarily see paper or cloth masks on most people which seem to be of little to no benefit at all. My personal feeling is that COVID in some form is here forever, just like the flu and other airborne viruses and at some point, life must go on.

I will wear my mask where it is required without complaining about it...healthcare settings, public transport, etc. I will also wear my mask into the pharmacy simply given the nature of a pharmacy and I somewhat consider it to be a health care setting on some level. I would also likely wear a mask in a large crowd situation like a concert or something where social distancing is impossible...but I also think at this point, individuals can *kitten* their own risk and comfort level with such things. I personally don't do much of that anyway so I would rarely be put in such a position. About the most crowded situation I'm ever really in is Costco on the weekend, but even then I go right when the doors open and it's not particularly crowded. I also think we're well beyond the notion of, if everyone did X,Y, and Z this thing would end...going into the 3rd year of this thing, obviously that notion is unrealistic.

Yea, I did too and it was a non event. Could see the metrics tanking on Fitbit (heart rate variability down, resting heart rate up, breaths per minute going up, one day of oxygen saturation going down in spite of bpm going up) and was feeling like on the way down with a nasty nasty cold/flu that was just starting to take hold for a couple of days and then overnight it reversed to "I just had the flu a day or so ago and I'm now recovering or fully recovered". Which lasted for just about 10 days--and no evidence of anything going on via Fitbit other than on one day when I was really short of sleep and both metrics and mild symptoms appeared.

So, I get it: non event for most of us... well, except for the number of people who still ended up in hospital.

Since vaccinations began, pretty much everyone I know has contracted COVID...most of them this past January which we all assume to be omicron. Nobody I know personally has had a severe case of it. Contrast that with 2020 and early 2021, I didn't know a ton of people who contracted COVID, but every single one of them had a pretty severe case...2 people I know died and 4 were hospitalized for a time with one of those 4 on a ventilator in an induced coma for 10 days (he was mid 30s and in very good shape and an avid runner...he is no longer an avid runner).

It would appear that the number of hospitalizations with omicron are attributable more to the sheer volume of infection. Even then, the COVID hospitalizations in my state were by and large un-vaccinated individuals...my last check was around 93%. To that end, the numbers are a bit fuzzy because there was no breakdown in terms of individuals hospitalized specifically for COVID symptoms vs. those who were hospitalized for other reasons and required to take a test upon hospitalization and tested positive even if they were asymptomatic or not particularly ill...they get rolled up into those numbers. There has been some effort to start distinguishing these numbers, but the bulk of the data we have in my state includes all of those people.

When looking around, there exist a number of people who got both Delta and Omicron. So Omicron is unlikely to confer magical immunity.

This is undoubtedly a risk and I do not believe having contracted COVID in some form or another provides full immunity. Evidence does suggest that it, along with vaccination, provides a high level of immunity though. When looking at this, I think it's also important to look at the situations of these people...do they engage regularly in high risk activities...does their occupation put them in high or higher risk situations vs someone like myself who goes to my office everyday and has little interaction with anyone and then usually goes home to my wife and kids. My highest risk engagement is probably the gym, but I also choose to go at lunch when it's not particularly crowded and I can workout and nobody is really within 10 ft of me at the closest.

I personally know three people who've contracted COVID more than once. One is my step-brother who is an ICU nurse and the other two are friends who are first responder paramedics with the fire department. Both very high risk occupations with potential exposure to very high viral loads.

Why are we all so sure that there is no future Delta lurking out there just because Omicron was so wide spread? How painful is it really to wear a mask when out amongst people?

I don't think any one is sure of anything...the situation is a dynamic one. In my state, the mask mandate was first lifted back in May and then put back in place in August/September when our numbers started to jump along with hospitalizations and just recently has been rescinded given our plummeting number of cases and hospitalizations. The numbers right now in our state simply don't support further mandates.

Should things change again for the worse, I have no doubt our governor will re-instate a mask mandate, but she also has to walk a delicate line between public safety and government over-reach...whether "over-reach" is perceived or real doesn't really matter...it's politics and this thing has been politicized from the beginning. All I can say is God help this state if she doesn't get re-elected because the alternative is going to look much more like Florida and Texas. She has been very proactive in every way trying to combat COVID, but she also has to look at the numbers and assess whether or not what she is doing is supported by the numbers. Regardless of the politics, she will at least always have the numbers on her side in defending her positions and actions.

I am planning to continue to, though I suspect that given the anti-masking vehemence I may choose to just leave venues as oppose to argue the case.

I am most certainly not vehemently anti-masking. I do question it and question the overall benefit to them, particularly as the vast majority of people I see are wearing thin paper masks, gators, or cloth masks. I will wear one as required but otherwise think people can make their own decisions here unless things dramatically change for the worse in my state. Right now, the numbers don't support continuation of a mask mandate or for continued emergency powers by our awesome governor.

We are also bordered by five states, four of which have never had mask mandates, and one of which dropped them a long time ago. Travel between these states is frequent and if everyone isn't doing it, it kind of becomes a moot point.

lemurcat2 wrote: »

cwolfman13 wrote: »

PAV8888 wrote: »

Does anyone get the impression that even people who have been generally compliant with wearing a mask are now "ready to ditch the masks" on the strength of "I just had COVID and it wasn't so bad" Omicron?

I'm sure for some...but for many it's fatigue with the whole thing. Almost everyone I know personally is fully vaxed and boosted and has worn masks everywhere as mandated by the state...vaccination and mask compliance in my state is very high, at least in most of the urban population...and almost everyone I know personally contracted COVID in January. I think there comes a point where people ask, "what really is the point?" Add to that, so many situations where the mask mandate just didn't make sense at all...like having to wear one to enter a restaurant, but being allowed to take it off as soon as you sit down...but have to put in on to walk to the bathroom...but you can sit there for an hour without one and eat and drink...same for brew pubs, bars, movie theaters, sports and concert venues, etc.

This is consistent with a lot of what I've noticed except I actually don't know that many who had omicron. Some, definitely. And vax compliance in my state and city is only okay, but it varies a lot by location and in my part of the city it has been very high, and so has mask compliance. (And as noted above, the date we are lifting the mask mandate is not yet determined, although there's going to be some sort of update this afternoon that might include that information.)

I generally agree with much of the rest of what you said too.

It's pretty wild. In the early days, most of the people we knew who contracted it were mostly acquaintances or friends of friends, more so than close friends or family. January was nuts...my wife and I and my kids caught it and then it seemed like every few days we were getting messaged by friends and family that they had it. Ironically, none of us were in close contact with each other at all...I haven't seen most of my friends for at least a couple of months due to the holidays and just being a time of year when we don't get together much.

My youngest started spring soccer practice last week and we found out that the entire team, all of the parents, and the coach and his wife had all contracted COVID in January. It was pretty unreal how many of us there were (including our primary circle of friends and family). We do wonder if possibly the last game of the season may have been our super spreader (indoor soccer league)...it was on Jan 3rd and my family started being symptomatic on the 6th and 7th which kind of jives with everyone else on the team. It would also make sense given most were gathering in some form or another for Christmas and New Years.

I will say that having two young boys (9 & 11) in school and who engage in youth sports has made navigating this whole thing pretty interesting. We're constantly around two little carrier monkeys of everything.

There are still 2000 Americans dying daily. I get that many people will want to lose the masks when #s go down, but as long as so many people are unvaccinated, and global vaccination is so unequal, I would expect we may continue to have to consider going back into protocols when a new spike develops from a new variant. I really hope we don't just get used to an extra 10K people dying every week.

Last month a coworker died after over a month in the hospital with covid. I don't know if he was vaxxed or not, but he was a nice man with 2 little daughters. I know a few people who I haven't been able to convince to get vaxxed. Yes, it would be their own fault, but that doesn't mean I'm not scared for them every day.

Considering long covid is still largely a mystery, and seems to be most prevalent in middle aged women, I'll continue to mask in possibly crowded places for the time being. The minor annoyance is more than worth reducing my risk of the med bills associated with a manageable (hopefully) chronic illness. The incidence and costs of long covid are just not being reported enough. Also, no one I know got a cold or the flu for 2 years, and it's just recently (as people are ditching masks) that theres been a couple of bugs going around. Weird, right? /s

Then there are parents of children under 5, especially those with risk factors, who are trying to figure out how to protect them when the rest of their community has decided they're tired of dealing with this.

I haven't been taking notes listening to TWIV lately, but the data coming in on the protection of the vaccines is impressive. My read is that the TWIV folks really don't think boosters will have to be a necessity, except allowing for a lousy variant, or for dramatically compromised individuals. Hopefully theyll get the dosage squared away for the little kids soon.

I was reading that the majority of Americans dying right now are unvaxxed folks in their 30s and 40s, often with no risk factors. I wish that news was out there louder, maybe it would convince more people to get vaxxed, even if they're young and healthy. More people vaxxed would mean better protection for the people at high risk, or even just bad luck, and would really provide some relief to hospital staff.

@PAV8888 Yeh, sad but I see it locally. Many people aren't masking up anymore. In fact, my nephew works at a very large company in Texas, brand new building, grand opening, lots of people coming through to check it out. He said there were 3 people wearing a mask(he was 1 of them) and people were making fun of them. WTH??

I ran into someone at the grocery store Sunday a.m., she started discussing the vaccines. She wears a mask because she's not vaxxed and doesn't plan on getting it. She says she's never gotten Covid yet knows of many who've been vaxxed that have gotten sick from it. I hope she never does get it.

At this point, I feel naked without a mask in public places.

ReenieHJ wrote: »

@PAV8888 Yeh, sad but I see it locally. Many people aren't masking up anymore. In fact, my nephew works at a very large company in Texas, brand new building, grand opening, lots of people coming through to check it out. He said there were 3 people wearing a mask(he was 1 of them) and people were making fun of them. WTH??

I ran into someone at the grocery store Sunday a.m., she started discussing the vaccines. She wears a mask because she's not vaxxed and doesn't plan on getting it. She says she's never gotten Covid yet knows of many who've been vaxxed that have gotten sick from it. I hope she never does get it.

At this point, I feel naked without a mask in public places.

That's the thing that really ticks me off. It's always been the case - here, anyway - that we'd see a few people now and then wearing masks in public. Just guessing, but it was frequently people from Asian countries where there's a tradition of wearing a mask if one has the sniffles, and probably some who were in cancer treatment or something similar that made them especially immune compromised but they had need to be in public. Now, sure, some - probably most - wearing masks are doing so for some reason that has to do with Covid.

Why does that make bullying socially OK? It's ridiculous. (Yes, visibly/audibly making fun of people is bullying behavior.)