I posted this in KETO KETO KETO! Figured it might have some interest here...


There is MFP. There is the real world. And then people in general.

For an app I don't even use anymore since I log in a different app, MFP and the MFP forums provided some real education for me back in 2014 and 2015. I am fairly sure that I would still be (or by now I would have been back to being) obese had it not been for the forums and had I relied on well meaning doctors and professionals, general (lack of) personal knowledge and awareness, and my then understanding of food and dieting which did include all of the buzzwords and "reasons" for things.

It is incredibly common for people who are obese or pre-diabetic or tipping into type 2 to be handed a reduced carb sample menu, or told to lose some weight by trying keto--it most certainly was the case for me. Keto success is everywhere and keto and IF seem to be the current versions of best things to replace sliced bread!

As you know, when people successfully implement keto long term (which is not always a given level of success, of course) then, even if they don't lose weight, they may see some improvements to their A1C because of the reduction in spikes associated with large boluses of carb intakes.

HOWEVER, that improvement is, in my opinion of course, NOTHING compared to the potential improvement that could be achieved for them if they actual lose a significant amount of weight and increase their daily movement. Notice I don't even say exercise. Though exercise levels of movement could help, they are not a pre-condition for success, especially for people who are starting from a position of being quite out of shape.

I saw a lot of people trying Atkins. As with many diets success was great in the beginning but short lived. I am not disputing that the success of ANY diet intervention has the potential to be short lived. But there was a common thread with all the people who were engaged in Atkins and the elimination of carbs:

They would "stray" by accident or deliberately, gain a significant amount of weight which induced severe disappointment and the feeling that the ONLY way they can control their weight is by never straying. And then started promising to themselves that they would get back on the wagon tomorrow--just a day off today. A few times they would manage to do so after a few days, after a week, after a couple of weeks... past that (or after the fourth or fifth or sixth time this happened) the whole thing would be quietly shelved.

And Atkins is less restrictive than permanent keto... just saying.

There is a lot to un-pack for people who need to lose significant amounts of weight. It is not even always only food related. And the time used losing weight does give people the opportunity to reflect on what works or doesn't work for them--if they take that opportunity.

My public service announcement is:

-- don't confuse the weight change associated with glycogen manipulation with a real fat change. it is a distracting and confusing and, frankly undesirable, side effect, not a victory or defeat in one's battle of the bulge. You would be better off if you didn't have to deal with it. But it is part of keto and (very) low carb.

-- don't confuse the method with the reason. You lose stored fat when you take in less Calories than you expend. Every day and every week you consume less calories than you expend the difference comes out of stored resources. HOW you manage to create that deficit doesn't matter in the end. It could be a named diet, it could be an un-named diet, frankly it could also be an unhealthy method that would still work till the side effects catch up, or even better it could be a relatively health promoting method.

Might some methods be marginally more optimal in some circumstances? SURE, why not! BUT, marginal optimizations with benefits that are small enough that studies cannot come up with clear cut answers that the benefits even exist are NOTHING.

They are NOTHING compared to YOU, the individual, finding a SUSTAINABLE way to reliably control your caloric balance.

-- Long term compliance. Weight control (which includes both loss and maintenance) is NOT a short term game. This whole "I'm going to lose weight fast to then blah blah"... I would give a real good think about that "then".

There is no time limit and even five and six and seven years down the road you are still going to have to be mindful. OMG SOOOO MUCH WORK. --NO-- not so much work as you incrementally build to a new daily reality and default. But it does mean that you should be looking for ways to MAKE IT EASY / EASIER FOR YOU TO BE MINDFUL because otherwise you won't get to that point!

So don't make your life too difficult by overdoing (or under-doing; but, it is probably more common to "overdo" going in with guns ablaze) while keeping both eyes to the prize of successful weight control.

Adapt, seek long term compliance, and be willing to adapt again!

Sorry for the fever pitch!

lauriekallis wrote: »

Thank you, PAV

I remember Atkins too...of course I tried it way back when, with my mom, it was nasty. I missed fruit and vegetables.

Never did Atkins but I did do South Beach with my mom back in the day. It was okay. I lost weight and kept it off for awhile before switching to just calorie counting here.

PAV8888 wrote: »

Except for the high amount of carbs that I eat, especially when it comes to "snacks" relative to what South Beach "allows", I see a lot of similarities to what I eat for FOOD in what they suggest. Of course 50% of my calories are "snacks"... so there's that little similarity killer!

Again, it worked. I didn't gain the weight back until after my mom passed away and I suffered from severe depression. Just these days I love fruit and I eat a lot of rice lol. Grains, as long as they are part of a balanced meal, help me stay full. They make me feel satisfied.

It's not easy - that is for sure. If it was - everyone would be dropping weight

Seems like a good approach, Yooly. Tighten up the controls a bit and see what happens. Wishing you luck!

My body may be happy but my head is not.....

Congratulations, you two. I feel pretty lucky to be here with you

You are absolutely inspirational, Yooly!

And that inspires me, PAV

So, what is your plan, MS Sunshine (Jealous MS Grey Skies and Slush here), to move out of the limbo you are in? I love hearing other peoples plans. They really do inspire me. Please share.

so true!

Or sometimes tenths of a pound at a time

Today I'm .4 pounds shy of my new twenty pound down weight. Just about killing me
Was supposed to go grocery shopping today - but that will equal my grocery store treat and that feels like it will just postpone this upcoming milestone. So, I'm going to keep nose to the grindstone today and tomorrow in the hopes of hitting 20 this weekend.
In my 6 day cycle (that is what it is looking like...three or four days down or or two up and one the same) I am due one more down day. So I'm feeling hopeful.
Besides - we are having a Spring battling Winter blizzard today - so I don't really want to go to the grocery store anyway.