In my 20s I was all about girl power. Cool, whatever.

Now in my 30s I have settled and figured out that I don't have to compromise my femininity to be a strong lady. I can be both ultra girly and get down with the boys without seeming manly.

I can play sports without being manly. I can take my car to the shop without being manly. Its all about how you carry yourself, your grace, your smile, etc.

But in general, yes a lot of women act manly nowadays.

I totally agree with Amazona here, probably to a more extreme level than herself. In my 20s, I wanted to RUN the WORLD and be one of the guys. I got my engineering degree, bought my first house, and d@mn if I wasn't going to do all the repairs myself. I went days without makeup, my hair was in a pony tail, and I screamed at football games while downing beer and wings, haha...

Now, I find it easier to be girlie while maintaining a level of independence. I actually love dressing up every day in skirts and heels. I don't wear a lot of makeup, but a little in the right places makes me feel good. It's OK to ask someone for help, who knew?! And I don't feel the need to run the world or be one of the guys all the time, though you'll still find me swearing like a sailor at Ohio State games with a beer in my hand.

So I think a lot of it changes as you grow older and you discover who YOU want to be, not what others expect. I was a super smart, nerdy girl so I was encouraged to be independent and told that maybe I didn't need to be married while my younger prettier little sister was actually told that maybe she needed to marry rich. I do think older generations guided some of that along, so it's interesting to watch where it's headed as my generation develops the future generations....

I avoid this problem by checking for an adam's apple.

I may not be the world's most passionate guy, but I know what I am and I know I'm a man, and so is Lola.

I blame you for getting this song stuck in my head this afternoon

You're welcome

So many thoughts... I don't think it's a manly thing to be able to work with tools or provide for oneself. I think male and female is a mental state. I consider myself a tomboy. I think emotions are to be considered after logic and at the point where they conflict I scoff at people using "feelings" as reasoning for anything. I would rather think on an issue and resolve it myself than to go someone for reassurance. I can't be bothered with things that I perceive as inefficient or pointless and am annoyed when it's forced on me (I hardly ever wear make up). So... I'd say I'm pretty manly.

Women are definitely more independent, which I think can be viewed as masculine. For example, several years ago when I bought a condo my father was shocked (in a proud way) that I was able to do that all by myself. That would have been very unusual when he was my age that a single woman would have a decent job, provide for herself, buy property, etc...

For sure this.

I know that I might not get married, so I chose a job that I can support myself on. I have no dreams of a man coming to swoop me up to his mansion and love me forever. If that happens, great, but if not, I will be able to buy my house and support myself, and who knows, maybe even have my own child?

It's not that women are more "manly" it's that we're more self-supporting, which is thought to be a masculine trait.

I concur in general, though I do see women who have taken on less laudable traditionally-masculine traits. Britain, especially in certain areas, has a strong 'lad-ette' culture of excessive drinking, violence and antisocial behaviour. At the other end of the spectrum, we have women like the Duchess of Cambridge, who are ultra-feminine in a more traditional mode and enjoy great public approbation for that choice. In the middle, the majority of women are more self-sufficient and less dependent on male support than in previous generations. I don't necessarily think that makes us more 'manly', it's just that independence, especially financial independence, is traditionally thought of as being a male preserve. Perhaps we need to change that paradigm, rather than describing women as more manly.

In the specific, I guess that changes in clothing and personal presentation probably have something to do with this shift of dependency. Rather than dressing to get and keep a man in one prescribed conformist style, women are primarily dressing for themselves, and allowing more of their personal preferences and ideals to show through. For some, that means eschewing makeup and all traditionally-feminine styles, for others, femininity rules, and for many more, clothes are chosen for our lifestyle and activities, and cover a spectrum. The same could be said of behaviour.

For myself, it's less a question of wanting to take on 'masculine' roles, but more about knowing that, should I need to, I am without a doubt capable of changing a tyre, wiring a plug, or taking care of my own financial needs. As far as I'm concerned, having the ability to do so, and believing in my own capability doesn't make me more masculine, it just makes me more competent - a better-rounded person, just like my male friends who cook up a storm, are primary parents to their children, or wear bright colours.

By saying woman are more manly and the positive things people are saying about being manly... Wouldn't that mean you are sort shooting yourself in the feminist foot by saying being "more manly" is good. So therefore being a man is awesome. Which it is by the way

while I've never liked the word "feminist" because there are male sterotypes that guys have to fight with too, I do agree with your statement. But more importantly... :bigsmile:

By saying woman are more manly and the positive things people are saying about being manly... Wouldn't that mean you are sort shooting yourself in the feminist foot by saying being "more manly" is good. So therefore being a man is awesome. Which it is by the way

I've noticed that the only people who use the word "feminism" anymore are women over the age of 50 and men. Women under 50 were raised in a culture where it's considered normal to be who you want and follow your own path in life without needing to define it... Why do we need a word for that? Or if we do shouldn't it just be "equality" or something similar?

I've twice been asked recently if I am a "feminist" (spoken in scathing tones), both times by men of the rather unreconstructed variety, and both under 40. My response, which I think is probably a fairly accurate representation of how most women under 50 feel, is that I'm a humanist - I believe all members of the human race have the same inherent potential, regardless of gender, ethnicity or creed. This seemed to puzzle both enquirers greatly. I fear we have rather a long way yet to go before the 'equality' women under 50 assume is taken as a given by the population at large is really embedded.

I avoid this problem by checking for an adam's apple.

I may not be the world's most passionate guy, but I know what I am and I know I'm a man, and so is Lola.

Love that song!! :happy:

Women are definitely more independent, which I think can be viewed as masculine. For example, several years ago when I bought a condo my father was shocked (in a proud way) that I was able to do that all by myself. That would have been very unusual when he was my age that a single woman would have a decent job, provide for herself, buy property, etc...

For sure this.

I know that I might not get married, so I chose a job that I can support myself on. I have no dreams of a man coming to swoop me up to his mansion and love me forever. If that happens, great, but if not, I will be able to buy my house and support myself, and who knows, maybe even have my own child?

It's not that women are more "manly" it's that we're more self-supporting, which is thought to be a masculine trait.

I concur in general, though I do see women who have taken on less laudable traditionally-masculine traits. Britain, especially in certain areas, has a strong 'lad-ette' culture of excessive drinking, violence and antisocial behaviour. At the other end of the spectrum, we have women like the Duchess of Cambridge, who are ultra-feminine in a more traditional mode and enjoy great public approbation for that choice. In the middle, the majority of women are more self-sufficient and less dependent on male support than in previous generations. I don't necessarily think that makes us more 'manly', it's just that independence, especially financial independence, is traditionally thought of as being a male preserve. Perhaps we need to change that paradigm, rather than describing women as more manly.

In the specific, I guess that changes in clothing and personal presentation probably have something to do with this shift of dependency. Rather than dressing to get and keep a man in one prescribed conformist style, women are primarily dressing for themselves, and allowing more of their personal preferences and ideals to show through. For some, that means eschewing makeup and all traditionally-feminine styles, for others, femininity rules, and for many more, clothes are chosen for our lifestyle and activities, and cover a spectrum. The same could be said of behaviour.

For myself, it's less a question of wanting to take on 'masculine' roles, but more about knowing that, should I need to, I am without a doubt capable of changing a tyre, wiring a plug, or taking care of my own financial needs. As far as I'm concerned, having the ability to do so, and believing in my own capability doesn't make me more masculine, it just makes me more competent - a better-rounded person, just like my male friends who cook up a storm, are primary parents to their children, or wear bright colours.

I totally agree. Really questions like this hark back to a much earlier era (in our culture at least) where feminism was defined within the context of rejection of stereotypical female roles/behaviours. That's just not the case any more, for most women. A friend of mine put it so well: I can have my post feminist body and shave it too! :laugh: