Are Women More Manly?
AllanMisner
Posts: 4,140 Member
Let's flip the question. Thoughts?
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I'd think so.
I'll use myself as an example.
I can change my own tires, change a lock, and assemble anything Ikea throws at me WITH two engineering degrees.
I'm a weirdo though because I also cook, clean, and sew. Back 50+ years ago, girls like me were unheardof.0 -
Yeah I agree with Nnhouston....I do a lot of stuff by myself that would, in previous generations, have been defined as a man's role.
I don't sew though :laugh:0 -
Women are definitely more independent, which I think can be viewed as masculine. For example, several years ago when I bought a condo my father was shocked (in a proud way) that I was able to do that all by myself. That would have been very unusual when he was my age that a single woman would have a decent job, provide for herself, buy property, etc...0
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I'm independent, can take care of and provide for myself. I don't know if that's masculine or manly, mainly necessity. But I did get dumped once for replacing my own garbage disposal without calling my sweetie to do it.0
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I avoid this problem by checking for an adam's apple.0
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:laugh: no Adam's apple here!I avoid this problem by checking for an adam's apple.0 -
I avoid this problem by checking for an adam's apple.
I may not be the world's most passionate guy, but I know what I am and I know I'm a man, and so is Lola.0 -
Unfortunately, I think this is true and heavily dependant upon where you live. I remember my late teens and early 20's in Boston, the women there were brash, rude, had no manners, and were very short with people (granted this is an enormous generalization, I met some sweet girls too). I even remember seeing women wearing sweatpants to class or out to lunch, which I was shocked to see in a major American city. I mean, at least throw on a pair of jeans and take a few minutes to do your hair.
I've lived in south Florida for the past 5 years and have notice that native Floridians are much more patient, warm, and feminine. As crazy as it seems, I've seen south Florida women get all done up to go to the gym or pool. Even though it's overkill, I still think it's nice when women look as nice as possible when they leave the house.
I think a lot of it just comes down to attitude. Call me old fashioned, but men should be masculine and women should be feminine.0 -
In my 20s I was all about girl power. Cool, whatever.
Now in my 30s I have settled and figured out that I don't have to compromise my femininity to be a strong lady. I can be both ultra girly and get down with the boys without seeming manly.
I can play sports without being manly. I can take my car to the shop without being manly. Its all about how you carry yourself, your grace, your smile, etc.
But in general, yes a lot of women act manly nowadays.0 -
I've been trying to avoid this and it's partner thread (are men less manly) because I hate gender/sex sterotypes. I work an atypical field for a woman. I work with "manly" men. However these "manly" men that society sees as "manly" aren't always as "manly" as one might think. Nor am I any more of a man. (I work in construction, I'm sure you've all seen my unflattering hardhat avatar).
Now, jokingly, I will tell sterotypical gender jokes to people who all know it's a joke, untrue, and solely for fun. So within a joke, yeah women are being more manly and men less. But since we are sticking with manly and not, I would prefer to say that men are actually becoming more womanly (gasp!). Maybe we could just go for a 180 switch ya know? Women be men and men be women. Not really sure how that will work out in us having children but it could be fun to try. lol
Or... just maybe one day we'll have neither "manly" or "womanly" but people. :-P Or if people is too general, we could do adult and child... but there will always be those adults who are still children and those children who are more adult.
Sorry - but this topic really does bother me because the sterotype and some of the close-mindedness around it is something I have to deal with a fair amount.0 -
I've been trying to avoid this and it's partner thread (are men less manly) because I hate gender/sex sterotypes. I work an atypical field for a woman. I work with "manly" men. However these "manly" men that society sees as "manly" aren't always as "manly" as one might think. Nor am I any more of a man. (I work in construction, I'm sure you've all seen my unflattering hardhat avatar).
Now, jokingly, I will tell sterotypical gender jokes to people who all know it's a joke, untrue, and solely for fun. So within a joke, yeah women are being more manly and men less. But since we are sticking with manly and not, I would prefer to say that men are actually becoming more womanly (gasp!). Maybe we could just go for a 180 switch ya know? Women be men and men be women. Not really sure how that will work out in us having children but it could be fun to try. lol
Or... just maybe one day we'll have neither "manly" or "womanly" but people. :-P Or if people is too general, we could do adult and child... but there will always be those adults who are still children and those children who are more adult.
Sorry - but this topic really does bother me because the sterotype and some of the close-mindedness around it is something I have to deal with a fair amount.
I think a lot of it depends on what you are attracted to also. I love very feminine women. I get turned on when I see a girl get all done up and take good care of herself. That's just me.
Of course, we're all flexible on this. Just because a women watches football on Sunday and enjoys a steak and a beer every once in a while doesn't mean she's not feminine. We're all entitled to break the masculine/feminine roles a little bit. Hell, even I like to watch reality TV on Bravo.0 -
I get where you are coming from night but unfortunately this is the world we live in. We are typically defined by our gender roles. I don't mean hunters vs gatherers, but what attributes do men have that make them manly and the same for women. In dating, women look for certain attributes and so do men. We assign ourselves or are assigned characteristics. We can look at the words below and easily pick out what we think goes for a man and what goes for a woman. However, now those lines are being blurred, which some may find uncomfortable.
1. self reliant_____
2. yielding_____
3. helpful_____
4. defends own beliefs_____
5. cheerful_____
6. moody_____
7. independent_____
8. shy_____
9. conscientious_____
10. athletic_____
11. affectionate_____
12. theatrical_____
13. assertive_____
14. flatterable_____
15. happy_____
16. strong personality_____
17. loyal_____
18. unpredictable_____
19. forceful_____
20. feminine_____
21. reliable_____
22. analytical_____
23. sympathetic_____
24. jealous_____
25. has leadership abilities_____
26. sensitive to other's needs_____
27. truthful_____
28. willing to take risks_____
29. understanding_____
30. secretive_____
31. makes decisions easily_____
32. compassionate_____
33. sincere_____
34. self sufficient_____
35. eager to soothe hurt feelings___
36. conceited_____
37. dominant_____
38. soft spoken_____
39. likeable_____
40. masculine_____
41. warm_____
42. solemn_____
43. willing to take a stand_____
44. tender_____
45. friendly_____
46. aggressive_____
47. gullible_____
48. inefficient_____
49. acts like a leader_____
50. childlike_____
51. adaptable_____
52. individualistic_____
53. doesn’t use harsh language_____
54. unsympathetic_____
55. competitive_____
56. loves children_____
57. tactful_____
58. ambitious_____
59. gentle_____
60. conventional_____0 -
I dunno!... 50 yrs ago women were out plowing the field, milking the cow, plucking the chicken, shucking the corn, doing laundry on washboards & tub basins and spitting out 10 kids au natural all before chow time at 5pm!0
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I avoid this problem by checking for an adam's apple.
I may not be the world's most passionate guy, but I know what I am and I know I'm a man, and so is Lola.
the Kinks!!!
No adams apple here but can change a tire, my own oil and replaced a garbage disposal once lol0 -
Probably... but I don't feel like this should make her "outwardly" manly.
As a former electrician and being in construction in some facet for 20 years, I can use drills, saws, pull rope, as well as the boys. I also can support my family without a man. But I love being treated feminine and I love a man when he takes care of me, even when I don't need it.0 -
Agreed! I don't see how what you can do cuts out the fact you can fem it up. I'm all for dresses, skirts, heels, and make up.Probably... but I don't feel like this should make her "outwardly" manly.
As a former electrician and being in construction in some facet for 20 years, I can use drills, saws, pull rope, as well as the boys. I also can support my family without a man. But I love being treated feminine and I love a man when he takes care of me, even when I don't need it.0 -
In the end really what does it really matter,we are in a continuously changing social environment and no matter how nostalgic one may get in (often selective) memories the fact is we are not going back to them.
The day of a working man/father and stay at home wife/mother is largely gone and getting smaller,that is not likely to change.
Whatever the ongoing results of the feminist movement where women said they wanted complete equality and for men to be more emotionally open is also a genie out of the bottle.
Better imo that we accept what roles people have to play today and do our best to adapt to them.0 -
I dunno!... 50 yrs ago women were out plowing the field, milking the cow, plucking the chicken, shucking the corn, doing laundry on washboards & tub basins and spitting out 10 kids au natural all before chow time at 5pm!
This was my first thought, along with making tanks and planes and all sorts of fun manufactured goods while a ton of men were out fighting the war. Or out near the warzone patching wounded up. Go back a couple more decades and the height of women's lib and the flapper movement and you had masses tossing aside gender roles. Another couple decades back and women were flocking to industrial factories in absolutely deplorable conditions just to be able to feed their family. It all cycles around.0 -
I blame you for getting this song stuck in my head this afternoonI avoid this problem by checking for an adam's apple.
I may not be the world's most passionate guy, but I know what I am and I know I'm a man, and so is Lola.
On behalf of all Boston area women, thank you for generalizing us based on what some college-aged women did back in the day :noway:Unfortunately, I think this is true and heavily dependant upon where you live. I remember my late teens and early 20's in Boston, the women there were brash, rude, had no manners, and were very short with people (granted this is an enormous generalization, I met some sweet girls too). I even remember seeing women wearing sweatpants to class or out to lunch, which I was shocked to see in a major American city. I mean, at least throw on a pair of jeans and take a few minutes to do your hair.0 -
Women are not necessarily more manly, but because Western cultures have been promoting females while stifling males, it can appear that way. Women are more self sufficient and have gained economically at the expense of men in certain sectors of the population. For example, women in the 20s who are childless and live in major metropolitan areas typically earn more money than their peer group males.0
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On behalf of all Boston area women, thank you for generalizing us based on what some college-aged women did back in the day :noway:
I enjoy painting with a VERY wide brush 0 -
In my 20s I was all about girl power. Cool, whatever.
Now in my 30s I have settled and figured out that I don't have to compromise my femininity to be a strong lady. I can be both ultra girly and get down with the boys without seeming manly.
I can play sports without being manly. I can take my car to the shop without being manly. Its all about how you carry yourself, your grace, your smile, etc.
But in general, yes a lot of women act manly nowadays.
I totally agree with Amazona here, probably to a more extreme level than herself. In my 20s, I wanted to RUN the WORLD and be one of the guys. I got my engineering degree, bought my first house, and d@mn if I wasn't going to do all the repairs myself. I went days without makeup, my hair was in a pony tail, and I screamed at football games while downing beer and wings, haha...
Now, I find it easier to be girlie while maintaining a level of independence. I actually love dressing up every day in skirts and heels. I don't wear a lot of makeup, but a little in the right places makes me feel good. It's OK to ask someone for help, who knew?! And I don't feel the need to run the world or be one of the guys all the time, though you'll still find me swearing like a sailor at Ohio State games with a beer in my hand.
So I think a lot of it changes as you grow older and you discover who YOU want to be, not what others expect. I was a super smart, nerdy girl so I was encouraged to be independent and told that maybe I didn't need to be married while my younger prettier little sister was actually told that maybe she needed to marry rich. I do think older generations guided some of that along, so it's interesting to watch where it's headed as my generation develops the future generations....0 -
Women are definitely more independent, which I think can be viewed as masculine. For example, several years ago when I bought a condo my father was shocked (in a proud way) that I was able to do that all by myself. That would have been very unusual when he was my age that a single woman would have a decent job, provide for herself, buy property, etc...
For sure this.
I know that I might not get married, so I chose a job that I can support myself on. I have no dreams of a man coming to swoop me up to his mansion and love me forever. If that happens, great, but if not, I will be able to buy my house and support myself, and who knows, maybe even have my own child?
It's not that women are more "manly" it's that we're more self-supporting, which is thought to be a masculine trait.0 -
I blame you for getting this song stuck in my head this afternoonI avoid this problem by checking for an adam's apple.
I may not be the world's most passionate guy, but I know what I am and I know I'm a man, and so is Lola.
You're welcome0 -
I think so. I'm sure some are by necessity. Some are by choice.
I was reared with two conflicting worldviews: My mom's independent "you don't need a man for anything" which clashed with my dad's "women should be home and subservient to their husbands." In college, I took on more of my mom's worldview, and I honestly think it scared off many of the quality men.
My ex husband was "the only guy interested" in college, and I was surprised after we got married to discover that (while he had catered to my mom's worldview while we were in school), he was really more like my dad in how he expected our home life to be.
No one should be "subservient" in their own house, but I sometimes miss the days where someone else was "in charge" and "responsible."
I would love to find a strong man and leader who I could work with as a team- our strengths being in areas that overcome each others weaknesses. I would love to be girly all the time (not just the few hours I have off duty) and relaxed about life, letting the man worry about providing while I do the things that come easily to me (organization, home management). But realistically, there are too many single military women out there, and not enough men who want to live with one, so I'm not holding out for another husband.
And, thus, I am far more manly (directive, decisive, calling the shots and getting stuff done) than I would like to be.0 -
So many thoughts... I don't think it's a manly thing to be able to work with tools or provide for oneself. I think male and female is a mental state. I consider myself a tomboy. I think emotions are to be considered after logic and at the point where they conflict I scoff at people using "feelings" as reasoning for anything. I would rather think on an issue and resolve it myself than to go someone for reassurance. I can't be bothered with things that I perceive as inefficient or pointless and am annoyed when it's forced on me (I hardly ever wear make up). So... I'd say I'm pretty manly.0
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By saying woman are more manly and the positive things people are saying about being manly... Wouldn't that mean you are sort shooting yourself in the feminist foot by saying being "more manly" is good. So therefore being a man is awesome. Which it is by the way 0
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Women are definitely more independent, which I think can be viewed as masculine. For example, several years ago when I bought a condo my father was shocked (in a proud way) that I was able to do that all by myself. That would have been very unusual when he was my age that a single woman would have a decent job, provide for herself, buy property, etc...
For sure this.
I know that I might not get married, so I chose a job that I can support myself on. I have no dreams of a man coming to swoop me up to his mansion and love me forever. If that happens, great, but if not, I will be able to buy my house and support myself, and who knows, maybe even have my own child?
It's not that women are more "manly" it's that we're more self-supporting, which is thought to be a masculine trait.
I concur in general, though I do see women who have taken on less laudable traditionally-masculine traits. Britain, especially in certain areas, has a strong 'lad-ette' culture of excessive drinking, violence and antisocial behaviour. At the other end of the spectrum, we have women like the Duchess of Cambridge, who are ultra-feminine in a more traditional mode and enjoy great public approbation for that choice. In the middle, the majority of women are more self-sufficient and less dependent on male support than in previous generations. I don't necessarily think that makes us more 'manly', it's just that independence, especially financial independence, is traditionally thought of as being a male preserve. Perhaps we need to change that paradigm, rather than describing women as more manly.
In the specific, I guess that changes in clothing and personal presentation probably have something to do with this shift of dependency. Rather than dressing to get and keep a man in one prescribed conformist style, women are primarily dressing for themselves, and allowing more of their personal preferences and ideals to show through. For some, that means eschewing makeup and all traditionally-feminine styles, for others, femininity rules, and for many more, clothes are chosen for our lifestyle and activities, and cover a spectrum. The same could be said of behaviour.
For myself, it's less a question of wanting to take on 'masculine' roles, but more about knowing that, should I need to, I am without a doubt capable of changing a tyre, wiring a plug, or taking care of my own financial needs. As far as I'm concerned, having the ability to do so, and believing in my own capability doesn't make me more masculine, it just makes me more competent - a better-rounded person, just like my male friends who cook up a storm, are primary parents to their children, or wear bright colours.0 -
Unfortunately, I think this is true and heavily dependant upon where you live. I remember my late teens and early 20's in Boston, the women there were brash, rude, had no manners, and were very short with people (granted this is an enormous generalization, I met some sweet girls too). I even remember seeing women wearing sweatpants to class or out to lunch, which I was shocked to see in a major American city. I mean, at least throw on a pair of jeans and take a few minutes to do your hair.
Did you only meet girls at sporting events? I have no idea where you got this particular generalization about women in Boston. It's simply not true.
As far as women being more manly -- no, I don't believe so. I think it's the opposite, in fact. Women my age want to be good cooks, they want to be good wives and they surely want to be perfect mothers (yes, even in Boston ). The women who are held up as ideals are feminine, beautiful, kind (think Kate Middleton -- cover of Vanity Fair). I'm not saying that society is going through a major regression in regard to feminism -- I'm saying more that society has realized that a woman can be all of these things and still be strong, independent and beautiful (Michelle Obama anyone?). This is not a bad thing, in my opinion. 0 -
By saying woman are more manly and the positive things people are saying about being manly... Wouldn't that mean you are sort shooting yourself in the feminist foot by saying being "more manly" is good. So therefore being a man is awesome. Which it is by the way
while I've never liked the word "feminist" because there are male sterotypes that guys have to fight with too, I do agree with your statement. But more importantly... :bigsmile:0
This discussion has been closed.