english saddles for dummies...that would be me.

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BandForAlyAnne
BandForAlyAnne Posts: 321 Member
soooo, i'm kinda thinking i want to get into english riding. idk, something about it just appeals to me. purely for pleasure, not shows. i think it would be a fun challenge for me and the horse i ride to learn something completely new. problem is that i have always ridden western and don't know anybody who rides english. although my aunt (the horses owner) rode english when she was my age. so she can teach me riding basics. but i know nothing about tack. and im poor. thats the real problem here. lol. i want to know what kind tack i need firstly,and secondly what are some good, yet cheaper, brands. i understand that price coicides with quality, but i don't need the ferrari of saddles here. :P

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  • skylark94
    skylark94 Posts: 2,036 Member
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    If you're just looking to putter around you may want to look for a used Wintec. I prefer the close contact, but an all purpose would work fine too and may be easier to transition from western since the flaps aren't as forward.

    For a bride, anything with a plain snaffle will do nicely. You could even use a western headstall.
  • downforthelasttime
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    Long but may be helpful.....

    I hope you love it as much as I do! I switched from Western to English when I was 11 years old (39 years ago) and never really went back. Now I feel more secure in the English tack. If the horse gets silly, I feel like there's a better chance of hanging in. After all, that's what I jump in. I feel now like I'm sitting ON the Western saddle.

    So, as an unreformed tackaholic, I do have a few suggestions. See if you can borrow/try a couple of different English saddles. More importantly, see if you can get some riding breeches. Here's why: if you ride an English saddle in jeans, you'll likely feel uncomfortable, you'll slide around, and you can scratch the saddle with hard buttons on the front when you mount/dismount. I love full seat breeches. You'll feel like you're attached with velcro. Chaps will also work great if you have some. Kerrits make breeches in plus sizes, and I currently wear a 18/20W/2x and can fit in several brands like On Course. Your experience will be lots better if you don't feel like you're sliding around. Then see if you can borrow some half chaps to wear over your Western boots or whatever you ride in, you'll want leg protection from the stirrup leathers..

    OK, finally the saddle. If you could try a Wintec, they're a great starter saddle. Inexpensive, well made, most have adjustable gullets, and they are really grippy. If you can't try a Wintec, see if you can find a good German, British, or Swiss made saddle. I'm a big fan of older Passier, Stubben, Kieffer, and Courbette saddles. Look for an all-purpose style with nice fat knee rolls and a fairly deep seat. A dressage saddle might also be a good choice because you'll ride with a longer leg. Don't buy one of the Indian made/no name saddles sold for $125 new. They're crap, they'll hurt you and the horse. There are some real deals on older Argentine made saddles, but you have to be aware that saddle trees can break, so make sure the seller will guarantee the tree is sound and the billets are safe. Your seat size will be about 2" bigger than you ride in a Western saddle (16"=18" English, etc....)

    If there is an English tack shop near you, go and talk to the staff and sit in a bunch of saddles in the store. You'll be able to tell what feels more comfortable for you. Many stores have used saddles on consignment and may allow you to take one home to try on your horse. Even if you don't buy from them, you'll have a better idea of what you might like.

    You can do a couple of things to make you feel more secure while you get used to the feeling. Put a grab strap on the front for a handhold, or put a belt or stirrup leather around the horse's neck where you can reach it to hold on. A breastplate will work too.

    Get your aunt to help you get the tack fitted and adjusted correctly. Your stirrup length is important. Make sure the stirrup irons are the correct size for your foot. The kind with rubber bands on the side (sometimes called Peacock irons) are a good safety choice. Get a helmet if you don't ride in one. Troxel Sierras are great and I use mine when I ride Western too, they look nice and are cool and comfortable. It's OK to use a mounting block to get on.

    So there are some other really nice things about riding English: the saddle weighs very little--you can put all your tack over one arm and take it to the horse. Your knees will probably hurt less after long rides. If you ride actively and post the trot, you'll get a better workout. You can try jumping which is a blast, and dressage, which is also fun and challenging in ways that people don't understand until they try it. I feel better communication with my horses and feel like a better rider. Sometimes I lug out the big old Western saddle and get my cowgirl thing on, but I definitely prefer English.

    If you're anywhere near Arizona, come out and ride with me and I'll fix you up with whatever you need! On COTH, I'm Flagstaff Foxhunter and I have about 75 pounds to go, so your progress is inspiring.

    Best wishes,

    Laura
  • Whisperinghorse
    Whisperinghorse Posts: 202 Member
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    Whatever you get make sure its sound, that the tree isnt broken and IT FITS YOUR HORSE!!!!!!!!!

    Horse first rider second..

    My first horse I tried on 17 saddles before we found one that fitted, my second we tried on 12. i always take mine to the saddlers to be fitted and rechecked every 6 months..

    I find stubben really hard, wintecs will have adjustable gullets.

    I have an Ideal event saddle and a Falcon event saddle.. Super comfy for both of us!
  • BandForAlyAnne
    BandForAlyAnne Posts: 321 Member
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    thx everyone for the info! especially downforthelasttime. :) i will look and see if there are any english tack places here. its prolly a long shot it texas tho. and for saddle fit i suppose i should say i ride a 16hh quarter horse. she has beautiful comformation. i will try to insert a picture of her back so you guys can get an idea. she has great thoroughbred blood running in her. also i forgot to mention that she rides with a mecanical hackamore. what type of bridle will allow me to still ride bit-less? both her and my aunt are very particular about bit riding so i would say a bit is out of question. lol. and i will have to get used to the idea of being in spandex pants... : / lol

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  • Xatholasian
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    I second the breeches comment... I have been riding english all my life. I started out in a western saddle but now really hate them for they are hard on my knees no matter how much you turn those fenders. If it is more than a stirrup leather then it is just too much.. :)

    Full-seat breeches/tights I have found for under $50 a pair so if you look around you can find them. If you get tights instead of breeches you might find that they are an easier fit as well. I have long legs and have found that breeches are either made for very tall and very slender people or shorter and wider people but no one with my longer legs, athletic thighs that fit me right... so I have gone with the tights for all I ever do is trail ride... :)

    Bridles, you are going to want to start in a snaffle bridle. Depending on the pallet of your horse's mouth I would choose a regular D-ring snaffle or Egg-butt snaffle either with one joint in the middle or with two. You will need to learn a little about how a snaffle works on the bars of the horse's mouth to help you learn how to teach your horse to accept constant contact on their mouth. Since I am sure you have trained your horse in the western tradition of staying out of the horse's face and riding more from your seat. Riding from your seat will not change but using your hands as an additional aid to help your horse to get in to the correct positions to being collection and extensions as well as rounding out and moving forward into the bit. All new terms I am sure, but you'll get used to it... (I used to teach beginners English riding at one point in my life) It appears that you would prefer not to use a bit, if that is the case and neither you are willing to try a bit then a side-pull might be in order, but if you can at the very least start out in a bit and work up to using a side-pull might be easier to teach you and the horse the things needed. For aiding a horse to move up into the bit and round out might be more easily accomplished with a bit at first until both you and the horse knows what it 'feels' like to be in a rounded way. (by rounded I mean the horse rounds out its back, the gaits and the transitions between them will become more fluid and when you ask for something the horse is already in a gather position to perform whatever movement you are asking for.) A good example of what it is like when a horse is rounded out vs when a horse is not is when you are doing downward transitions. For instance, when you are trotting and you ask for a walk, if the horse is strung out and their back is flat there will usually be a noticeable 'bounce' in to the walk. When a horse is rounded and coming up to the bit it will feel like you glided into the walk instead.

    JMHO
  • BandForAlyAnne
    BandForAlyAnne Posts: 321 Member
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    I second the breeches comment... I have been riding english all my life. I started out in a western saddle but now really hate them for they are hard on my knees no matter how much you turn those fenders. If it is more than a stirrup leather then it is just too much.. :)

    Full-seat breeches/tights I have found for under $50 a pair so if you look around you can find them. If you get tights instead of breeches you might find that they are an easier fit as well. I have long legs and have found that breeches are either made for very tall and very slender people or shorter and wider people but no one with my longer legs, athletic thighs that fit me right... so I have gone with the tights for all I ever do is trail ride... :)

    Bridles, you are going to want to start in a snaffle bridle. Depending on the pallet of your horse's mouth I would choose a regular D-ring snaffle or Egg-butt snaffle either with one joint in the middle or with two. You will need to learn a little about how a snaffle works on the bars of the horse's mouth to help you learn how to teach your horse to accept constant contact on their mouth. Since I am sure you have trained your horse in the western tradition of staying out of the horse's face and riding more from your seat. Riding from your seat will not change but using your hands as an additional aid to help your horse to get in to the correct positions to being collection and extensions as well as rounding out and moving forward into the bit. All new terms I am sure, but you'll get used to it... (I used to teach beginners English riding at one point in my life) It appears that you would prefer not to use a bit, if that is the case and neither you are willing to try a bit then a side-pull might be in order, but if you can at the very least start out in a bit and work up to using a side-pull might be easier to teach you and the horse the things needed. For aiding a horse to move up into the bit and round out might be more easily accomplished with a bit at first until both you and the horse knows what it 'feels' like to be in a rounded way. (by rounded I mean the horse rounds out its back, the gaits and the transitions between them will become more fluid and when you ask for something the horse is already in a gather position to perform whatever movement you are asking for.) A good example of what it is like when a horse is rounded out vs when a horse is not is when you are doing downward transitions. For instance, when you are trotting and you ask for a walk, if the horse is strung out and their back is flat there will usually be a noticeable 'bounce' in to the walk. When a horse is rounded and coming up to the bit it will feel like you glided into the walk instead.

    JMHO

    thx for more info. i have decided on either the wintec all purpose 250 or 500. and i have figure out everything else i need with some help from downforthelasttime. i am going to to tack store tues to look around and try on some breeches. i think for riding apparel thats all i need for now. i can use the shoes i have and im going to hold of on half chaps to make sure i really need them first. im getting the saddle, a pad, the girth, webbers, irons, reins, and whatever bridle i end up with. honestly i've always been cautious of the english hackamore (which we use now). she takes a very light touch with direction, but sometime you need to hold her back and im always scared of being too rough with the thing. but my aunt (the owner) really likes it and doesnt want a bit in her mouth. she didnt respond to it well when she was in training. convincing my aunt to try something new will be very hard. so i have been looking into bitless options like the sidepull and dr cooks. i think i would be scared to get the cooks, because i heard some horses dont like the head vice it creates and it doesnt release pressure fast enough. i thought about an indian bosal atachment, but i'd be worried about creating a very tight rope around the sensitive nose bones. so on to the side pull. i have ridden in a halter to see how she is and shes good, but im worried i wouldnt have enough control over her if she decided she wasnt going to listen. i cantered her in a halter the other day (which i had not done in awhile) and she thought she could do whatever she wanted. and im worried if i ever went on trail i wouldnt have the control to get her out of a dangerous situation if one occured. this is one option i found that would let me try many different pressures. http://www.mossrockendurance.com/view_product.asp?category_ID=1&prod_ID=5 i could attach it so i get poll pressure (like dr cooks) or ride it like a side pull. or connect the clips unter the chin for chin and nose pressure. so i could ride it like a side pull, but if she starts acting up clip it differently. what do you think?
  • Xatholasian
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    I don't blame you for not being confident in the sidepull at speed. I ride all my horses except 1 in a snaffle bit, including one that neck reins. Bits are only harsh in the hands of people that do not understand how they work. I suspect that the pallet in your mare's mouth is shallow and that is why she doesn't respond well to a bit. I would try a French link snaffle in that case, very mild and it won't poke her in the roof of her mouth.

    I personally believe that once a horse is taught what is needed in a bit like I have described above that transitioning to the sidepull would be very easy. But even a sidepull can be made harsh by harsh hands, I have quite soft hands which can be a detriment as well. One of my riding instructors made the comment once that I literally throw my reins in my horse's face due to it. What happens with me is that my shoulders get tight, then my arms, and the hands are the last in the line and they can't get tight when everything before them is already. So they release instead. This is why they harp on 'relaxed shoulders' relaxed arms going with the movement of the horse... The description that I have been living by for years is that you need to pretend that your reins are like stiff poles that you can push and pull the horse's nose. When done correctly that is EXACTLY what it looks and feels like... It is how a horse is 'put on the bit' in English.

    What I would do if I were you is try out that sidepull in an arena if you can, walk/trot/canter. If you know what I am talking about with putting a horse on the bit, then try to do that with the sidepull, if you can accomplish that, then there is no reason why you can't continue on with that. If you have trouble with her putting her nose up, hollowing her back and gettting heavy on the forehand then you will need to work on driving up from behind into the bridle (which is where the bit comes in handy) or you can use a dressage whip to help drive from behind up into the bridle. (I was so much better describing this when I was giving lessons, when I could use my hands to help get my point across)

    If it were me I would see if I could convince her to try something like a french link. then lunge the mare with it in for a while get her used to it and then hook up reins and loop then around the irons and over the seat of the saddle and around the irons on the opposite side to make a sort of make shift sidereins set up. Lunge again for a bit. let her find her place with that bit... let her get a feel of it in her mouth and with some pressure that she creates and then can release on her own... you would be surprised what a horse will learn about a new piece of equipment if we keep our hands off it a while and just let them wear it...

    As for your question about adjusting the clips on the sidepull so that you have more leverage, that might work but there are things in English riding that may or may not work as well with a sidepull... but as with many things horsey and horse training, it is a trial and error experiment and every horse is different and what works on one won't always work on another... So try it, see how the horse likes it, responds to it, you might be pleasantly surprised.