this world will suffer a war against different religions and the victor will be the only religion, its a bad thing to say, but its what i think will happen. as for dying out, theres always a possibilty, but what makes you think it will be christianity?

Well it's survived for the last 2000 years. Can't see it dying out any time soon. There will always be dips and heights in popularity though.

What I see happening is that for a huge number of people, Christianity is a cultural identity rather than a religion. They may go to church occasionally or not at all, don't pray, don't read the Bible, but if you ask them they would say they are Christian. I think that while so many people are not terribly interested in spirituality, they are not comfortable giving up the whole idea.

So it is possible this will lead to a decline of Christianity; it could become an identity that's less and less important to succeeding generations.

I think that everything has an expiration date. the world now is without Rome, though that was inconcevable during her reign. We are without dinosaurs, and they ran this joint for eons. Everything ends. Ideas last a long time, and religion (not faith, mind you) is an idea. it will fall away. no time soon, i'm sure, but at some point. and at some point we will too. it's not "pompus" (and yeah, the word was used wrong) to say that everything ends. it's just fact.

"Why Christianity Must Change or Die"
- John Shelby Spong (Bishop)

I was given this book by a reverend of a united church (much more liberal), and found it very interesting. Only 228 pages.

Brightest blessings

Christians are to be in the world but not of the world . We should seek our acceptance from God and not man . Christianity is not a social club where we need to change to better appeal to the world for added membership. I know that you are seeking truth but liberalism in theology tends to water down the distinction of where Christianity ends and the world begins , don't you think ?

"Why Christianity Must Change or Die"
- John Shelby Spong (Bishop)

I was given this book by a reverend of a united church (much more liberal), and found it very interesting. Only 228 pages.

Brightest blessings

Christians are to be in the world but not of the world . We should seek our acceptance from God and not man . Christianity is not a social club where we need to change to better appeal to the world for added membership. I know that you are seeking truth but liberalism in theology tends to water down the distinction of where Christianity ends and the world begins , don't you think ?

Has Christianity not changed quite a bit in it's very existence so far? Even excluding the major changes (Protestant reformation anyone?) There have been the various councils that changed the Bible, the various different forms of bibles, the ignoring of large sections of the bible, which gets increasingly more ignored as time goes on, and finally the fact that the majority of people that would identify as Christians fail to do anything other than occasionally attend church, and claim to believe in Jesus.

Like it or not, for a religion to 'survive' it DOES need to appeal to the world. If it doesn't it slowly gets fewer, and fewer members, until it becomes a minor niche group, or dies off. Of course, a new religion becoming mainstream helps that along.

It has nothing to do with liking it, or agreeing with it, it's just a fact. If Christianity doesn't become more attractive to younger people NOT raised in Christian households, then considering that every generation more and more children raised in Christian households will decide to identify as atheist, agnostic, or anything else, it really is only a matter of time.


Of course, that does raise the question, are the churches gaining more converts than they're losing members, or losing more members than their gaining converts? It seems to me like they're losing far more than their gaining...but, it would also probably need to be a large scale poll to truly figure that one out.

//" Do you think Christianity will die out?"//

IT DEPENDS ON WHERE ON THE GLOBE YOU ARE REFERRING, imo.

Atheism is on the rise,
and far more common in some nations than others,
and although atheists are hard to count, lol, in USA atheists are the largest of all USA minorities at over 20% to 24%,
and it has been counted to be as high as 72% in Norway,


but i doubt, in some countries like USA, that christianity will die out.
The USA is one of the most religious of all modern nations.

The pull to belong,
to be part of a community that is widely seen as "good" by most ppl, (especially by Americans)
the urge to feel they are being good, (most ppl DO think belonging to a church or to a religion indicates the person is "good")
is very powerful,
as well as the fear of hell, (actually believed by many people:noway: )
can all combine to keep one believing in a a cosmic jewish zombie, who make you live forever, if you symbolically eat his flesh and drink his blood,
whle telepathically telling him that you accept him as your master,
so he can remove an evil force from your soul that is present in humanity because a rib-woman was convinced by a talking snake to eat from a magical tree…



that,
and the fact,
the humans are indoctrinated from birth on,
all throughout their childhood,
upon fear of eternal pain and torture,
long before the child even approaches the age of reason, the idea is carved into their brains. Everyone they know believes it, thus, it must be "true", these must be THE correct gods to worship.

It is the same all over the world, in that way, for all the followers of all the various gods everywhere.

Otherwise, it IS a hard idea to sell to an adult who has been encouraged to use critical thinking skills.


but no, i do NOT think christianity will die out completely,
but,
that it will continue to change. The rules christians follow,
will continue to morph each century,
as they always have.

The christian rules of the future, might not much resemble the rules they follow today, just as the christian rules of today,
have changed greatly from even a few centuries ago.

But, I think most religions encourage a philosophy which aims to better the world we live in

this is indeed what we are told the world's religions are supposed to do, and your idea IS widely believed........so much so, that it is rarely even questioned, "religions are good".(?)

but the net effect of religion is usually the opposite. The more religious, the worse the effect, too.
Religions are almost always oppressive to at least one group of ppl, if not several. Religions which seep into govts are a sure bet for oppression and harm. Theocracies are always bad, in any measure of a society or civilization that you want to use.

I also strongly believe,
one can do good without endorsing any gods at all. I myself do not make the associations everyone usually does, that religion = good. (?) In fact, i have the opposite view, and can list a multitude of ways religions are harmful, both to individuals, families, societies and govts............let me know if you want the list.

I disagree that christianity is okay cuz "some religions are worse".(para). Religions which are STILL in control of govts:noway: ARE worse, and very dangerous even today, i'll so so agree.
but since the times when christianity was removed from BEING the govt itself, and civil laws now override (usually) christian(or any religions's) laws, in those countries, that have separation of govt and religion, then the atrocities have markedly decreased dramatically, compared to the times when christianity ruled the govts and the rulers themselves, for eons and eons. shiver.

but i do agree, christianity will probably never ever die out completely in hyper-religious nations like the USA.

BUT christianity IS markedly decreasing in membership, power, influence, and cash flow,(cash and powr---the lifeblood of the org) though, but, like the person above me, i can not picture the complete eradication of christianity. My guess is, it will always scraggle on, and on.

I do NOT see the bulk of religion's influence as a positive force in the world, though. I dislike very much how it causes illogical thinking and impacts our govts and legislation.

If you give up all philosophy all you have left is anarchy. And anarchy always descends to cruelty.

I am also against anarchy,
but, civil laws
and religion
are two different things,
or at least should be, imo. Theocracies always and invariably lead to cruelty and oppression, always.
I do NOT believe we need any religion to form safe govts,
as it's been proven, in every case, throughout history, that mixing religions and govts is always disastrous. I feel one can have a govt which focuses the welfare of the ppl or freedom or whatever, or a fair govt,
without endorsing any of the gods, and i do not think that not endorsing any gods will not equate to anarchy. If one wants to feel civil laws are in fact, representing a philosophy, i can agree with that,
but, i do not believe that religion = good basis for a govt's set of civil laws at all. shiver!

You have greater faith in the goodness of human beings than I do. While I cannot disagree that religious ethics have not cured humankind of its basic imperfections, it at least holds up ideals of better behavior. One has to distinguish between the sins of organized religion and the ethics at the root of that religion.

After all, why did so many people convert to Christianity from the roman gods. There must have been something there that they felt was worth it.

The fall of the roman empire? Fear of eternal damnation? The worship of roman gods was not real well organized, either.
Keep in mind, ppl then, like ppl today, inherited their gods from their parents, from the society they grow up in.
The gods popular in the middle east, were a lil different from the gods of europe at that time. Actually, most gods seem to have trouble crossing mountain ranges. The favored gods of a location in ancient times seem to stop at mountain ranges. The history of christianity if a fascinating tale, and wow, when christianity got in with GOVTS, it reeeally took OFF!! kind of..... To this day, only about 1/3 to 1/4 of the globe worship the biblegods, btw.
Mot a lot of religions had actual armies, but christianity DID! :noway: Also fascinating, is the way christianity put THEIR gods on top of ongoing pagan festivals, like christmas, easter, etc etc. Well played, christians, well played!! :laugh: Over time, everyone all but forgot what gods WERE being celebrated on those days.


I don't see where i claim to have great optimism in human nature,(???????????????) when i state that i do not think religion is a "good" force in the world, and religions net effect is usually negative.....It seems to me, (i could be wrong), that you, Maradot, credit CIVIL law = religion, or vice-verse,
or perhaps the two are somehow blurred in your mind...not sure, i could be misinterpreting your posts.
I distinguish the two,
in a way that medievel Europe, pockets of early America, and most of the middle east do not.......those are/were dark times, when religion IS the govt. shiver!!!! NEVER ever good, nope.

Thank rational minds:drinker: for CIVIL law overriding religious law, or we could still be burning witches in the USA because of bible laws:devil: ........or burning scientists in europe for 'heresy':devil: ................or telling citizens that birth control is against god's will:devil: ........or trying to prevent evolution from being taught in history books, or trying to insert "creationism" into actual science books! :devil: OH WAIT, we are doing that last one:laugh: .
long
long
list of stuff that gets harmed by those who forego critical thinking skills in favor of following a religion........like the times when republican congressmen veto environmental bills, stating "god will decide when the world ends, we don't have to worry about it.":sad: (for real, in 2009..) :noway: :noway: :noway:
Or the way ppl point at the bible for backup in homophobia,:devil: or to prevent adoptions or marriages by gay parents, religion is still doing harm to this very day!! :devil: I got a long list, if you want it.
but i digress, i do have long long list of examples of 100s of ways religion is NOT the good thing you *seem* to think it is.(?)


Yeah, so i don't get where you read i am saying human nature needs no laws when i state i am against anarchy, or WHERE i claim that humanity is 'naturally great' or anything, please quote the spot where you read THAT?
????????????

No, i do think humans are very capable of doing evil, and religious laws can often encourage evil rather than suppress it,
but i do have optimism in well established CIVIL laws of modern nations. I do believe in democracy,
not theocracy.

While I cannot disagree that religious ethics have not cured humankind of its basic imperfections, it at least holds up ideals of better behavior.

I disagree the very stories or morals of most religions are worthy or 'good'. I disagree that religion, when mixed in with GOVT, ever creates an overall benefit for that society.

One has to distinguish between the sins of organized religion and the ethics at the root of that religion.

I am very grateful, that in modern countries, CIVIL law overrides the "ethics" of any religion you can name. The "ethics" of christianity, IF IF IF one wanted to toss out CIVIL law, and go by the bible morality, we'd be in a world of hurt, like we once were, when christianity WAS the govt. shiver!

For real, you find stuff like THIS

---

http://www.ebonmusings.org/atheism/atrocities.html
to be great example of "ethics" we'd want to model a society upon??:noway: LUCKILY, now---CIVIL law DOES override religious law in most modern nations.

Even though christianity IS losing power, has mostly lost it's control of most govts,
has reduced cashflow,
and decreasing in numbers in countries where birth control is available and legal,

---

i still don't think the 1/4 to 1/3 of the world who worship the biblegods, will ever stop passing on the biblegods to their children....there will always be some of that brand of theist, imo.
that's my guess.