"strong" women
MissingMinnesota
Posts: 7,484 Member
I have been seeing lately pretty much all the women here labeling themselves a strong woman but what makes you a strong women? What type of women do you consider to be weak? I know a lot of woman that will consider women in their same situation strong but will look down on someone else who is to me equally strong just in a different type of way.
No one wants to consider themselves as a weak person so shouldn't we just be labeling ourselves as women with out the qualifier of strong?
No one wants to consider themselves as a weak person so shouldn't we just be labeling ourselves as women with out the qualifier of strong?
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I have been seeing lately pretty much all the women here labeling themselves a strong woman but what makes you a strong women? What type of women do you consider to be weak? I know a lot of woman that will consider women in their same situation strong but will look down on someone else who is to me equally strong just in a different type of way.
No one wants to consider themselves as a weak person so shouldn't we just be labeling ourselves as women with out the qualifier of strong?
That's a great question, Ruth, and I can see your point. We are all strong in different ways depending on our circumstances. What I feel makes me a strong woman is this; I am an educated, successful (both in my work and my finances) single mom raising two kids. I own my home, my car, have minimal debt and manage to have a small life outside of my kids. I found the courage to leave a 12 year marriage with my high school best friend becasue it was abusive and I refused to live my life like that any longer. All in all, becoming a single mom is the best decision I ever made, although one of the hardest and scariest. If someone told me I'm not a strong woman, they might have a fight on their hands. :explode:
I honestly see a "weak" woman as someone who can't make their own decisions and is willing to just exist in their life and not really live. Someome who has no opinion, or who thinks so little of themself as a person, that they won't speak up even if they feel their opinion could be valuable, for fear of rejection or isolation from speaking their mind.
That's just me and my thoughts on the subject. :flowerforyou:0 -
I completely agree with this point. I think what happens is that a few men on these forums have told women here that they are basically worthless as a mate because they are 'strong', so several women have felt the need to defend why or how they are considered strong. For example, see the following quote from http://www.myfitnesspal.com/topics/show/763997-a-machiavellian-guide-to-dating-quality-womenNo one wants to consider themselves as a weak person so shouldn't we just be labeling ourselves as women with out the qualifier of strong?Having this whole independent female attitude will leave you.. well, independent and alone (and rightfully so).
Otherwise, personally, I don't go around all day, everyday thinking that I'm some kick *kitten* strong woman. I just go about my life and live it the best that I can. Now, if that MAKES me strong in the process, so be it. :happy:0 -
Depends… one thing that has made me more appealing to men is actually the *****s in my armor. Which is something I don’t understand.
I used to always try and hide any weakness, and show the guys I can handle anything like they can or better. And when I was younger I really could, so there wasn’t much to hide (except that modesty, lol!) But a snowboard injury has wreaked havoc on my mind and… well… I’m just not as sharp as I used to be (things like not being a strong driver anymore, memory degradation). The funny thing is, rather than pushing people away, having weakness (and owning it instead of trying to hide it) has actually resulted in more friends and more male attention than I’ve ever had in my life.
No one wants to be a “weak woman,” but I’ve listened to the other moms talk about little stuff that they can’t handle (changing light bulbs, killing bugs ,etc) and getting lost all the time so their husbands have to help them find their way home or to the store. I think there is a definite difference between the “normal woman” (not necessarily “weak” just stronger in other areas) and the “strong, independent woman” you might find in a board room and who calls herself that. Unfortunately, I don’t know how to explain it any better.0 -
Exactly the point I just made in the other thread. Thank you.I have been seeing lately pretty much all the women here labeling themselves a strong woman but what makes you a strong women? What type of women do you consider to be weak? I know a lot of woman that will consider women in their same situation strong but will look down on someone else who is to me equally strong just in a different type of way.
No one wants to consider themselves as a weak person so shouldn't we just be labeling ourselves as women with out the qualifier of strong?
Yes, I believe all people have different qualities, and everyone shines somewhere - at least to some extent. Some people (males/females) will be better than you at some things. Fact. You're going to be better than them at some things. Fact.
I'm physically stronger than you. Am I strong? You're faster than me. Then am I weak? You're a great guitar player, I'm a great drum player. Who is strong, who is weak?
To me, this "strong" woman thing is about transforming a negative (rejection) into a positive (because I'm too good) - which is possibly the highest level of lying to oneself (because you refuse to acknowledge there is a problem with you - it's the others people fault).
I would think a good start to lose this attitude would be to be genuinely interested and awed by other people's achievements, then you'd realise that you're one amongst many.0 -
I don’t equate “independent” with “strong.” A woman can still be “strong” yet know how to function as a partner in an inter-dependent relationship. An “independent” woman (myself too, at times, so it’s not like I don’t understand) often puts out the vibe that she doesn’t need a man for anything other than appearance and the bedroom. And she has BOB for the bedroom. So what do you need a man for, really? And how does he know you actually need him? So a man moves on to a woman that satisfies his innate desire to feel needed.
Having this whole independent female attitude will leave you.. well, independent and alone (and rightfully so).I think what happens is that a few men on these forums have told women here that they are basically worthless as a mate because they are 'strong', so several women have felt the need to defend why or how they are considered strong. For example, see the following quote from http://www.myfitnesspal.com/topics/show/763997-a-machiavellian-guide-to-dating-quality-women
I found it odd that no-one challenged the “and rightfully so” clause in that thread… rather strong judgement.
At the same time, most independent women I’ve worked with do end up alone, or they end up settling. Or they end up realizing the male equivalent of themselves doesn’t really make a good partner and finally go for someone who is more compatible.0 -
At the same time, most independent women I’ve worked with do end up alone, or they end up settling. Or they end up realizing the male equivalent of themselves doesn’t really make a good partner and finally go for someone who is more compatible.
Ok, maybe this is a semantics issue so I need clarification...
I consider myself independent (and strong too, but I do agree those are different) because I live alone, have a decent job, provide for myself, have a comfortable life, etc. etc.... So because of those factors, I'm likely to end up alone or settling according to some here? Or to the guys who don't like independent women, should I still be living in my parents home, being demure with no job, missing out on life because I don't have a mate yet? This all sounds very black and white with no grey area, but maybe I'm missing something??
Not worth it!I found it odd that no-one challenged the “and rightfully so” clause in that thread… rather strong judgement.0 -
At the same time, most independent women I’ve worked with do end up alone, or they end up settling. Or they end up realizing the male equivalent of themselves doesn’t really make a good partner and finally go for someone who is more compatible.
I think independent women may end up alone more simply because they have more options. If you *need* a man to pay your rent or electric bill, you may latch on to the first man who is willing to do so, whereas if you don't *need* that, you may be more discriminating, and may remain single longer. Maybe you do end up settling at some point, if you want to get married or have children, but you aren't forced to do so based upon your financial circumstances. It's a free choice you make. I'm certainly not single because of a lack of men interested in me -- for the most part, it's been my choice along the way. Moreoever, even as the relationship continues on, you don't have to stay in a bad relationship. Women who are less independent may be too fearful to leave, or unable to leave because they have no other means of support. I think independent women are much quicker to realize that it is better to be alone than to be in a bad relationship.0 -
It's funny because I've always thought that being a STRONG woman was a good thing, yet it's taken on such a negative connotation in society because SOME women take it too far. Instead of just showing that you CAN handle it all, it starts to come across as I don't NEED anyone else since I can handle it myself. There is a difference in those statements. It's like some women are afraid to show weaknesses, those kinks in the armor as Janie said.
It's not uncommon for those women to end up alone. Janie said it, and Mike did too (though I'd like to publicly slap his hand for the "and rightfully so" part of the comment :noway: ), so while his level of tact isn't there, the statement is still valid.
Strength (for men and women) does come from being independent or able to handle things as they come. But REAL strength is recognizing that you don't HAVE to do it alone, that showing your weaknesses isn't a bad thing, that it's OK to ask for help. I think once "Strong Women" realize that, suddenly men will pay more attention just as Janie is experiencing. I wish I'd learned it earlier and am still struggling for how to show that appropriately. My male friends told me a LONG time ago that I needed to show the "softer side of Angie"... I didn't understand that until recently... but wow....0 -
But why does independent = strong? I know plenty of what I would consider strong women that are happily married with kids. Yes they probably could do it on their own but why does being independent and not having someone there to help make others stronger then them? Should we call them the lucky women that don't have to be independent?0
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I found it odd that no-one challenged the “and rightfully so” clause in that thread… rather strong judgement.
For me personally, having read a lot of posts from certain people, I find I just cannot relate to their point of view and have ceased trying to change their perspective or offer a different one, as it seems to fall on deaf ears. Hopefully that is not the case, or maybe I am just misinterpreting, but that whole post that included the "rightfully so" comment was to me complete bull****. 50,000 years of evolution is not an argument for or against finding a mate, independent or not.
That said, I have enjoyed the points in this strong woman thread. I am undecided and am not certain I have an adequate definition of what a "strong man or woman" truly is. I tend to agree with a lot of FlimFlam's and JJ's points thus far in this thread though.
Lots of good points and thought in all of this, thanks gang.0 -
I consider myself independent (and strong too, but I do agree those are different) because I live alone, have a decent job, provide for myself, have a comfortable life, etc. etc.... So because of those factors, I'm likely to end up alone or settling according to some here? Or to the guys who don't like independent women, should I still be living in my parents home, being demure with no job, missing out on life because I don't have a mate yet? This all sounds very black and white with no grey area, but maybe I'm missing something??
There's definite grey area. I look for a complement. I like someone that can support themselves in a basic way. As well, I want them to want me around, not necessarily need me 100%. A degree of independence is a good thing, but too much independence is something that can function as a turn off. It's a fine line that I feel is hard to describe.0 -
I consider myself independent (and strong too, but I do agree those are different) because I live alone, have a decent job, provide for myself, have a comfortable life, etc. etc.... So because of those factors, I'm likely to end up alone or settling according to some here? Or to the guys who don't like independent women, should I still be living in my parents home, being demure with no job, missing out on life because I don't have a mate yet? This all sounds very black and white with no grey area, but maybe I'm missing something??
There's definite grey area. I look for a complement. I like someone that can support themselves in a basic way. As well, I want them to want me around, not necessarily need me 100%. A degree of independence is a good thing, but too much independence is something that can function as a turn off. It's a fine line that I feel is hard to describe.
I agree...it's not that you're so weak you can't take care of yourself, but not so strong that you don't need anyone.
Ne-Yo's Miss Independent is a good example.0 -
Beer is to drunk as Whiskey is to strong. :drinker:
Stong to me is a very potent person.
I say I'm strong willed, I somewhat mean I'm "very" willed so does stong equal very?
I'm gonna agree with disneywm though....Don't tell me I'm not a strong woman, those for some reason are fighting words.
:flowerforyou:0 -
The caveat is, I've met very few men like the one I'm currently dating. I think they were out there all the time, but I suppose I never gave them the time of day. He likes cats for goodness sake! C'mon really? I'm looking for the board of director type, the CEO, the CFO. Not a cat guy. Lol! I was surprised to discover he's both strong and decisive yet is flexible enough to handle my personality. The more I learn about him, the more I’m thinking this guy is perfect for me!
And here's the weird thing... He couldn't care less about degrees and my job. He said what attracts me to him the most is my confidence. He said I wasn’t insecure like most women, always worrying if they are good enough (If only he knew!!!). Sounds good, right? Contrast that with what a couple of my friends said they observed about me with men (all guys, not just him). I totally go into "chill mode" and whereas I'm queen bee (or her right hand man) in my female social groups, with guys I relax and let things happen. I never knew this about myself. The only times I get all "in control" around guys I'm romantically interested in is when I'm very stressed or very tired (even BB noticed this and he's laughed at it the couple times it happened) or when my son is involved.
I think this explains why none of my guy friends ever asked me out. They always saw me in energetic friend mode, that strong independent woman who didn't need anyone.... not the go-with-the-flow relaxed woman I am with BB.
Truth be told, though, I think my guy friends have a better picture of what life will be like with me than BB does. It's one thing to go with the flow when you're spending and wasting your own money. But once you start spending my money, ah well then... control issues come out. I'm also not so go-with-the-flow when my son is involved. I tend to be more controlling with him and I've had one guy tell me it scared off the others in one of the singles groups I frequent. I’ve tried to get better about this (I’m sure my boy appreciates that) but we shall see as time progresses and BB and I get more comfortable with each other.0 -
Maybe you do end up settling at some point, if you want to get married or have children, but you aren't forced to do so based upon your financial circumstances. It's a free choice you make. I'm certainly not single because of a lack of men interested in me -- for the most part, it's been my choice along the way.
This is exactly the problem.
I have plenty of guys interested in me...BUT... I don't *NEED* a man to provide for me, so I don't HAVE to put up with his jerkiness. I don't HAVE to put up with his not being attentive to my emotional needs. I don't HAVE to put up with him dogging me out in front of my family. I don't HAVE to put up with him cheating, lying, etc.
So many guys out there behave in ways or express opinions that are unacceptable to today's independent women. We can bash certain guys even in this forum for expressing an unpopular opinion, but their opinions are more of what I see amongst the guys at work. But I don't HAVE to put up with a man like that. And I don't. Which is why over the years I've had a stream of one-and-done dates and very few actual relationships.
How many of us are willing to accept the very real possibility that, given the way that society is, we may not find someone or that the guy who is perfect for us personality wise may not come in the package we long for? I realize it’s kinda weird of me to say this now that I’m dating someone… but those of you who’ve been here since the beginning know I’ve said the same thing for a long time.0 -
Don't tell me I'm not a strong woman, those for some reason are fighting words
I think a lot of independent woman say they are strong to avoid the fact that they appear cold, appear to not need anyone, and actually push people away with their independence and self-righteousness. I know I did for a long time- not just in romance but also friendships.
I look around at my eclectic group of friends since moving to the south. Some of these cutsey little southern belles can't even do simple math, but when it comes to strength of character are some of the strongest women I've ever known.0 -
Strength is having conviction.
Strength is doing the right thing, even when it's hard.
Strength is responsibility.
Strength is feeling fear and moving forward anyway.
Strength is progress.
Strength is growth.
Strength is evolving.
Strength is admitting when you are wrong and learning from it.
Strength is embracing who you are - pros and cons. Fixing what is bad and making better what is good.
Strength is knowing that there's no such thing as perfect, by why the hell not go for it?
Strength is.
You don't TRY to be strong, you just BE STRONG.0 -
I have plenty of guys interested in me...BUT... I don't *NEED* a man to provide for me, so I don't HAVE to put up with his jerkiness. I don't HAVE to put up with his not being attentive to my emotional needs. I don't HAVE to put up with him dogging me out in front of my family. I don't HAVE to put up with him cheating, lying, etc.
So many guys out there behave in ways or express opinions that are unacceptable to today's independent women. We can bash certain guys even in this forum for expressing an unpopular opinion, but their opinions are more of what I see amongst the guys at work. But I don't HAVE to put up with a man like that. And I don't. Which is why over the years I've had a stream of one-and-done dates and very few actual relationships.
I can so relate to this. Thanks, JJ, for saying it so well! :flowerforyou:0 -
Don't tell me I'm not a strong woman, those for some reason are fighting words
I think a lot of independent woman say they are strong to avoid the fact that they appear cold, appear to not need anyone, and actually push people away with their independence and self-righteousness. I know I did for a long time- not just in romance but also friendships.
I look around at my eclectic group of friends since moving to the south. Some of these cutsey little southern belles can't even do simple math, but when it comes to strength of character are some of the strongest women I've ever known.
I agree with the difference in an independent woman and a strong woman. One of the biggest difference between the two to me is that strong women know their limits and know when to ask for help but independent woman tend to refuse help when offered.0 -
Strong has taken the place of saying independent since independent brings up the image of the overly strong flat out refuses to bend person. It has become a dirty word lately.
Do I considor myself strong? Yes, I run my house, have a job, do all the cleaning and manage not to kill my sister on a daily basis. However I am willing to bend, to be wrong to ask for help when I need it .To admit I need help. To let someone complement me where I am weak. I can't change the oil in my car, it doesn't make me weak to let someone do it for me.
Bend like a willow or break like an oak. The willow tree endures through the wind it leans, it sways and it survives. The oak falls in the face of wind because it is so rigid that it has no give, it snaps. Strong women (and men) are willows , Independent women (and men) are oaks. They refuse help, they can't be wrong and gods forbid someone doesn't agree with them. We've seen it in relationships, we've seen it in life, and we've seen it everywhere.0 -
Bend like a willow or break like an oak. The willow tree endures through the wind it leans, it sways and it survives. The oak falls in the face of wind because it is so rigid that it has no give, it snaps. Strong women (and men) are willows , Independent women (and men) are oaks. They refuse help, they can't be wrong and gods forbid someone doesn't agree with them. We've seen it in relationships, we've seen it in life, and we've seen it everywhere.
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Bend like a willow or break like an oak. The willow tree endures through the wind it leans, it sways and it survives. The oak falls in the face of wind because it is so rigid that it has no give, it snaps. Strong women (and men) are willows , Independent women (and men) are oaks. They refuse help, they can't be wrong and gods forbid someone doesn't agree with them. We've seen it in relationships, we've seen it in life, and we've seen it everywhere. 0 -
I look around at my eclectic group of friends since moving to the south. Some of these cutsey little southern belles can't even do simple math, but when it comes to strength of character are some of the strongest women I've ever known.
Oh gravy, that describes me perfectly....is that a good thing or a bad thing lol.0 -
I think my strength comes from knowing I'm flawed and weak.
Sounds funny I know. But I'm not perfect, I want human comfort and love, and I don't see that desire as a bad thing.
I think with in my career I draw strength from my patients seeing what they can handle and how they survive when life throws lemons and they make lemonade. I want to learn from them.
I'm compulsive, impulsive and controlling...but I'm working on turning those flaws into attributes..like spontaneous, and being a leader who is open to other opinions. I'm accepting of others, and realizing that if I want change in my life the only person I can look to to be a catalyst for that change is myself.
I think my biggest strength is my self awareness..not saying I'm not still learning who I am but I'm much farther along than I was 5 years ago.0 -
I found it odd that no-one challenged the “and rightfully so” clause in that thread… rather strong judgement.
Funny you should mention this. I actually stared at that "(and rightfully so)" line for a good minute in total disbelief. I was going to write something, but then just said screw it.
I mean, if you want to say strong, independent women will typically end up alone, ok, that's something we can discuss. I would disagree, but whatever. It's a debate.
But to add the "and rightfully so" qualifier??? I mean, WTF? That's wrong on so many levels I can't really even begin to debate it. That's probably why I just didn't bother writing a response.
Nonsense in a similar vein:
Short men will end up poor, and rightfully so.
Intelligent men will end up impotent, and rightfully so.
Old ladies will end up with arthritis, and rightfully so.
How do you even begin to rebut something like that??
--P0 -
I found it odd that no-one challenged the “and rightfully so” clause in that thread… rather strong judgement.
Funny you should mention this. I actually stared at that "(and rightfully so)" line for a good minute in total disbelief. I was going to write something, but then just said screw it.
I mean, if you want to say strong, independent women will typically end up alone, ok, that's something we can discuss. I would disagree, but whatever. It's a debate.
But to add the "and rightfully so" qualifier??? I mean, WTF? That's wrong on so many levels I can't really even begin to debate it. That's probably why I just didn't bother writing a response.
Nonsense in a similar vein:
Short men will end up poor, and rightfully so.
Intelligent men will end up impotent, and rightfully so.
Old ladies will end up with arthritis, and rightfully so.
How do you even begin to rebut something like that??
--P
My dad had a very helpful term for this.
"You're so wrong, I don't even know where to begin."0 -
Was it not meant as "and logically so", "and understandably so", "and fittingly so" rather than "and deservingly so"?
I mean, if you want to say strong, independent women will typically end up alone, ok, that's something we can discuss. I would disagree, but whatever. It's a debate.I found it odd that no-one challenged the “and rightfully so” clause in that thread… rather strong judgement.
But to add the "and rightfully so" qualifier??? I mean, WTF? That's wrong on so many levels I can't really even begin to debate it.0 -
Strength is having conviction.
Strength is doing the right thing, even when it's hard.
Strength is responsibility.
Strength is feeling fear and moving forward anyway.
Strength is progress.
Strength is growth.
Strength is evolving.
Strength is admitting when you are wrong and learning from it.
Strength is embracing who you are - pros and cons. Fixing what is bad and making better what is good.
Strength is knowing that there's no such thing as perfect, by why the hell not go for it?
Strength is.
You don't TRY to be strong, you just BE STRONG.
Love this.
Personally, what *I* believe makes me strong, semantics aside:
Nursing my father through cancer and watching him slowly wither away and die a very painful death, then picking myself up IMMEDIATELY afterward to save our little family business, refusing to shut down on everyone and everything even though it's all I wanted to do.
Living through 15 years of singlehood (is that a word? well it is now!) and home ownership, and all the difficulties that come with both. And never "settling" just to make things easier on myself.
Having the "balls", if you will, to change every single part of my life and everything I found comfortable and easy in order to lose weight, get fit, and finally look good naked! I've been fat since my earliest memory, and dammit I was comfortable in my skin. That **** was tough as hell, but you all know this one.
And strength, for me, is getting up and leaving my ex with no hesitation and without ever looking back because I REFUSE to be a victim.
Tear my post apart if you will. I won't give a rat's *kitten* because I am a strong, independent woman.0 -
I've got about 60 seconds right now, so my 2p is this: I use 'strong' in my posts in reference to character as a catch-all phrase. I'm pretty verbose anyway:laugh: , and it's generally quicker than saying or typing " capable, self-sufficient, intelligent and competent women" every time I want to refer to a woman with character, determination and common sense! Kitsune's list is right on the money, as far as I'm concerned, and as has been observed "independent" has acquired negative connotations.
As for the "and rightfully so" - it was so risible and petty that I didn't see any point in responding to it. It made me laugh out loud - an excellent demonstration of exactly how this chap's mind works, and the fundamental insecurities that give rise to some of his outdated and misogynistic opinions. If he really thought that telling me I deserved to be alone, let alone that I've "evolved myself out of the human race" was going to change my mind, or make me more open to his opinion...? I feel sorry for him.0 -
When I think about someone that I consider strong.. I don't see it as a negative or even mesh it with independent.
Someone that is strong to me is someone that is forced into a situation, be it an illness or divorce or dealing with a death of their spouse .. they pick themselves up and they do what needs to be done. They figure out a way to get through and to keep on living and doing it.0
This discussion has been closed.