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Beliefs don't align with spouse or significant other

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  • SarahMorganP
    SarahMorganP Posts: 921 Member
    That is actually what you said. Your exact words were:
    I feel the same about religion. I find it so silly and honestly believe there is some sort of mental illness at play that I just don't think I could be with someone who believed it.
    Please feel free to explain why you think believing in a deity is a mental disease so terrible that it makes people unsuitable as a partner, but whatever your husband's mental illness is does not. Oh, and make sure that your answer doesn't treat Christianity and Islam as representative of all religions, since most religions do not actually believe that everyone should join them or follow their rules.

    The fairy example is not a good one, unless the person was using the term fairy as an approximation of their culture's conception of spirits as opposed to claiming that they could see and interact with the fairies. If someone told me they saw God and God spoke to them, I would assume they were crazy, too.

    Why would you assume them crazy if God spoke to them? Isn't that how the bible was written? Or did that only happen a long time ago? God would never speak to people now? And when I was talking about speaking, I mean as in praying. People say God answers their prayers all the time, and they "talk" to God all the time. And I am talking about Christianity because I live in the US and they are the ones who are trying to make laws based on their religion. They are the group that is trying to take the rights of others away. I have no problem with any religion until they start to discriminate against others and try to make laws about it.
  • lour441
    lour441 Posts: 543 Member
    That is actually what you said. Your exact words were:
    I feel the same about religion. I find it so silly and honestly believe there is some sort of mental illness at play that I just don't think I could be with someone who believed it.
    Please feel free to explain why you think believing in a deity is a mental disease so terrible that it makes people unsuitable as a partner, but whatever your husband's mental illness is does not. Oh, and make sure that your answer doesn't treat Christianity and Islam as representative of all religions, since most religions do not actually believe that everyone should join them or follow their rules.

    The fairy example is not a good one, unless the person was using the term fairy as an approximation of their culture's conception of spirits as opposed to claiming that they could see and interact with the fairies. If someone told me they saw God and God spoke to them, I would assume they were crazy, too.

    I believe you have your answer right here.....
    My husband and myself both have mental illnesses.
    That was uncalled for.

    What was uncalled for? Multiple quotes in one post?
  • bathsheba_c
    bathsheba_c Posts: 1,870 Member
    That is actually what you said. Your exact words were:
    I feel the same about religion. I find it so silly and honestly believe there is some sort of mental illness at play that I just don't think I could be with someone who believed it.
    Please feel free to explain why you think believing in a deity is a mental disease so terrible that it makes people unsuitable as a partner, but whatever your husband's mental illness is does not. Oh, and make sure that your answer doesn't treat Christianity and Islam as representative of all religions, since most religions do not actually believe that everyone should join them or follow their rules.

    The fairy example is not a good one, unless the person was using the term fairy as an approximation of their culture's conception of spirits as opposed to claiming that they could see and interact with the fairies. If someone told me they saw God and God spoke to them, I would assume they were crazy, too.

    I believe you have your answer right here.....
    My husband and myself both have mental illnesses.
    That was uncalled for.

    What was uncalled for? Multiple quotes in one post?
    Dismissing someone's opinions because they are willing to say in public that they have a mental illness.
  • lour441
    lour441 Posts: 543 Member
    That is actually what you said. Your exact words were:
    I feel the same about religion. I find it so silly and honestly believe there is some sort of mental illness at play that I just don't think I could be with someone who believed it.
    Please feel free to explain why you think believing in a deity is a mental disease so terrible that it makes people unsuitable as a partner, but whatever your husband's mental illness is does not. Oh, and make sure that your answer doesn't treat Christianity and Islam as representative of all religions, since most religions do not actually believe that everyone should join them or follow their rules.

    The fairy example is not a good one, unless the person was using the term fairy as an approximation of their culture's conception of spirits as opposed to claiming that they could see and interact with the fairies. If someone told me they saw God and God spoke to them, I would assume they were crazy, too.

    I believe you have your answer right here.....
    My husband and myself both have mental illnesses.
    That was uncalled for.

    What was uncalled for? Multiple quotes in one post?
    Dismissing someone's opinions because they are willing to say in public that they have a mental illness.

    I never dismissed their opinion. I am merely suggesting one may have something to do with the other. Billions of people believe in a higher power and have not been diagnosed with mental illness. A person that has been diagnosed with mental illness believes billions of people are mentally ill because they believe in a higher power. Misery loves company.
  • bathsheba_c
    bathsheba_c Posts: 1,870 Member
    That is actually what you said. Your exact words were:
    I feel the same about religion. I find it so silly and honestly believe there is some sort of mental illness at play that I just don't think I could be with someone who believed it.
    Please feel free to explain why you think believing in a deity is a mental disease so terrible that it makes people unsuitable as a partner, but whatever your husband's mental illness is does not. Oh, and make sure that your answer doesn't treat Christianity and Islam as representative of all religions, since most religions do not actually believe that everyone should join them or follow their rules.

    The fairy example is not a good one, unless the person was using the term fairy as an approximation of their culture's conception of spirits as opposed to claiming that they could see and interact with the fairies. If someone told me they saw God and God spoke to them, I would assume they were crazy, too.

    Why would you assume them crazy if God spoke to them? Isn't that how the bible was written? Or did that only happen a long time ago? God would never speak to people now? And when I was talking about speaking, I mean as in praying. People say God answers their prayers all the time, and they "talk" to God all the time. And I am talking about Christianity because I live in the US and they are the ones who are trying to make laws based on their religion. They are the group that is trying to take the rights of others away. I have no problem with any religion until they start to discriminate against others and try to make laws about it.
    Ooh, now I get to reveal my religious biases! :)

    So, Maimonides wrote on how you can test to see if someone is a real prophet. It basically involves having them predict unpredictable but positive events a statistically significant number of times, and if they get even one wrong, you know they're not a prophet. Oh, and Jews do believe that prophecy is on an indefinite hold, while any number of religions believe that their prophet is the last prophet.

    Honestly, talking to God doesn't seem much weirder to me than people who talk to their dead relatives or who talk to themselves.

    I think it is highly unfair to categorize all religion as wrongheaded on the basis that the Christian right is evil (and I say evil in the religious sense of the term).
  • KimmyEB
    KimmyEB Posts: 1,208 Member
    I truly cannot believe you guys are dissecting Sarah's posts that much.

    Here is what she said:

    "I feel the same about religion. I find it so silly and honestly believe there is some sort of mental illness at play that I just don't think I could be with someone who believed it."

    That is not the same as her saying "I would never be with someone who has a mental illness" or "I find someone with a mental illness unsuitable as a partner.

    Also, she's speaking exclusively about herself, and her thoughts and feelings.

    It's like saying you're prejudiced against everyone you choose NOT to be with, for whatever criteria they do not meet.
  • bathsheba_c
    bathsheba_c Posts: 1,870 Member
    Oh, I can believe that she didn't mean to say that. But that is what she said. And clarifying what she meant doesn't change the central problem, which is that she beliefs that religion is a mental illness. If religion is an illness, then it ought to be treated, no? And if you don't see where treating people who disagree with you as needing to be fixed leads, then you have not read enough about history.
  • SarahMorganP
    SarahMorganP Posts: 921 Member
    Oh, I can believe that she didn't mean to say that. But that is what she said. And clarifying what she meant doesn't change the central problem, which is that she beliefs that religion is a mental illness. If religion is an illness, then it ought to be treated, no? And if you don't see where treating people who disagree with you as needing to be fixed leads, then you have not read enough about history.

    I didn't say anything about treating mental illness. I do not believe all mental illness needs to be treated, not with meds anyway. I think the best way to "treat" this would be with facts and science. I have said a million times, I don't care if you believe in a higher power. At all. As long as you don't use your beliefs to harm others in some way, use those beliefs to make laws that discriminate. THAT is my only problem with some religious people. I would not want to do anything to change anyone, if I did I would be just as bad as those I am talking about.
  • Gilbrod
    Gilbrod Posts: 1,216 Member
    Sarah,s o I ask this. If the religous freedoms of those are being taken away by the gov't, to practice it wherever they want, like say...oh....have a seance in a public park, or prayer at a school flagpole. They're not bothering anyone or forcing anyone to do anything they don't want to do, but now they can't because our elected officials say you can't. Or catholic institutions, forcing people to provide birth control when it's against their views (unless they're receiving gov't money, then it's fair game). But I know it's your personal belief, and I am aware that not everyone has the same beliefs. But openly saying that believing in religion is akeen to having a mental disease, is an invitation for people to get defensive. Then again, we do live in a sick world :flowerforyou:
  • lour441
    lour441 Posts: 543 Member
    I truly cannot believe you guys are dissecting Sarah's posts that much.

    Here is what she said:

    "I feel the same about religion. I find it so silly and honestly believe there is some sort of mental illness at play that I just don't think I could be with someone who believed it."

    That is not the same as her saying "I would never be with someone who has a mental illness" or "I find someone with a mental illness unsuitable as a partner.

    Also, she's speaking exclusively about herself, and her thoughts and feelings.

    It's like saying you're prejudiced against everyone you choose NOT to be with, for whatever criteria they do not meet.

    I just find it humorous that one person thinks billions of people have a mental illness because they believe in a higher power. I think I will stick with the mob on this one. That said, she is entitled to her opinion.
  • SarahMorganP
    SarahMorganP Posts: 921 Member
    I truly cannot believe you guys are dissecting Sarah's posts that much.

    Here is what she said:

    "I feel the same about religion. I find it so silly and honestly believe there is some sort of mental illness at play that I just don't think I could be with someone who believed it."

    That is not the same as her saying "I would never be with someone who has a mental illness" or "I find someone with a mental illness unsuitable as a partner.

    Also, she's speaking exclusively about herself, and her thoughts and feelings.

    It's like saying you're prejudiced against everyone you choose NOT to be with, for whatever criteria they do not meet.

    I just find it humorous that one person thinks billions of people have a mental illness because they believe in a higher power. I think I will stick with the mob on this one. That said, she is entitled to her opinion.

    So because a lot of people believe in something that makes it fact? So when pretty much everyone believed the earth was flat, anyone who dared to think it wasn't was wrong? Millions of people believed black people should be slaves, that they were less than white people. That didn't make it right.
  • SarahMorganP
    SarahMorganP Posts: 921 Member
    Sarah,s o I ask this. If the religous freedoms of those are being taken away by the gov't, to practice it wherever they want, like say...oh....have a seance in a public park, or prayer at a school flagpole. They're not bothering anyone or forcing anyone to do anything they don't want to do, but now they can't because our elected officials say you can't. Or catholic institutions, forcing people to provide birth control when it's against their views (unless they're receiving gov't money, then it's fair game). But I know it's your personal belief, and I am aware that not everyone has the same beliefs. But openly saying that believing in religion is akeen to having a mental disease, is an invitation for people to get defensive. Then again, we do live in a sick world :flowerforyou:

    Do you know that atheists are the most hated minority group? I don't get defensive when people who believe in a higher power think I am crazy for my lack of belief. Or when they say I am going to burn in hell, or that I am a horrible parent for raising my children without God. Why? Because I am strong in my lack of faith. Just like there are many many religious people who couldn't care less what I might think of them, because they are strong in their faith. Me thinking they have a mental illness doesn't bother them in the least, because they don't believe it to be true.

    Either way, I am out of this one. :) Obviously my views on this subject are not popular. As lour441 keeps pointing out, billions of people believe differently than me. I am not going to change any minds on a debate board, and that's ok with me. People are free to believe or not believe whatever they want, I just want it to stay that way.
  • lour441
    lour441 Posts: 543 Member
    I truly cannot believe you guys are dissecting Sarah's posts that much.

    Here is what she said:

    "I feel the same about religion. I find it so silly and honestly believe there is some sort of mental illness at play that I just don't think I could be with someone who believed it."

    That is not the same as her saying "I would never be with someone who has a mental illness" or "I find someone with a mental illness unsuitable as a partner.

    Also, she's speaking exclusively about herself, and her thoughts and feelings.

    It's like saying you're prejudiced against everyone you choose NOT to be with, for whatever criteria they do not meet.

    I just find it humorous that one person thinks billions of people have a mental illness because they believe in a higher power. I think I will stick with the mob on this one. That said, she is entitled to her opinion.

    So because a lot of people believe in something that makes it fact? So when pretty much everyone believed the earth was flat, anyone who dared to think it wasn't was wrong? Millions of people believed black people should be slaves, that they were less than white people. That didn't make it right.

    No. Lots of people believing in something does not make it fact. It also does not make them mentally ill. People that believed the earth was flat were working on the information they had at the time. If someone believed the earth was flat today maybe they should get checked out ;p.

    I am not disagreeing with you about religion or a higher power. I am disagreeing with you that people that believe in a higher power are mentally ill. I am pretty sure I can find one person in the billions of people that believe in a higher power that can be proven to not be mentally ill. That's all :)

    Keep fighting the good fight!
  • Gilbrod
    Gilbrod Posts: 1,216 Member
    Sarah,s o I ask this. If the religous freedoms of those are being taken away by the gov't, to practice it wherever they want, like say...oh....have a seance in a public park, or prayer at a school flagpole. They're not bothering anyone or forcing anyone to do anything they don't want to do, but now they can't because our elected officials say you can't. Or catholic institutions, forcing people to provide birth control when it's against their views (unless they're receiving gov't money, then it's fair game). But I know it's your personal belief, and I am aware that not everyone has the same beliefs. But openly saying that believing in religion is akeen to having a mental disease, is an invitation for people to get defensive. Then again, we do live in a sick world :flowerforyou:

    Do you know that atheists are the most hated minority group? I don't get defensive when people who believe in a higher power think I am crazy for my lack of belief. Or when they say I am going to burn in hell, or that I am a horrible parent for raising my children without God. Why? Because I am strong in my lack of faith. Just like there are many many religious people who couldn't care less what I might think of them, because they are strong in their faith. Me thinking they have a mental illness doesn't bother them in the least, because they don't believe it to be true.

    Either way, I am out of this one. :) Obviously my views on this subject are not popular. As lour441 keeps pointing out, billions of people believe differently than me. I am not going to change any minds on a debate board, and that's ok with me. People are free to believe or not believe whatever they want, I just want it to stay that way.

    Yeah, so the study in Minnesota speaks for EVERYONE in the world. I have many atheist friends in and out of MFP. I find them to be some of the most intelligent and eloquent people I have crossed paths with. We have had our debates in civilized ways (for the most part). Hell, I was an atheist as well during my teenage years. I grew older, gone through some things to change my mind and I am where I am. But why generalize EVERY religious person as people who hate atheists? I don't hate em. I even joined a group! Nice people there. The ones I have met and have as friends wouldn't say something like "religion is a form of mental sickness." Kind of hypocritical of someone who deems themselves more open minded than some. Also, anyone who spouts hate isn't really practicing their "peaceful" religion. Like all sides, you have the fanatics who make everyone else look like trolls.
  • bathsheba_c
    bathsheba_c Posts: 1,870 Member
    I think there are two kinds of atheists. The first kind just don't believe in a god, though they may or may not still affiliate a religion for various reasons (for example, they enjoy religious traditions, or they enjoy the cultural aspects). That's what my boyfriend is like.

    The second kind treat atheism as a religion, and the most vocal of them talk about people who believe the same exact way medieval Christians talk about Jews (irrational, stubborn, to blame for the world's troubles, etc.). These people scare me. If anyone wants to know why atheism as a religion is no less dangerous than any other religion, they should read about Napoleon's invasion of Spain. Or about Communism's treatment of religious institutions.
  • adrian_indy
    adrian_indy Posts: 1,444 Member
    My wife is shy and quiet, I'm outgoing and loud. We are so opposite on almost every detail of our personalities people who knew us are often amazed we have been together as long as we have. Not saying their haven't benn bumps in the road. But I think where we differ most is our religious beliefs. I am a non-believer, she has been a catholic her own life. This has never caused any friction except when I finally said I wouldn't accompany her to church anymore...and then came the kids. She felt as if she was sort of failing at doing her part in teaching the kids about christianity and her whole family are church goers, so their is also traditional.

    She wanted to start sending our oldest son (4 yrs. old) to Sunday school, and I was not thrilled about it, but we comprimised. I said I would never try and stop her from teaching the children about her beliefs, but if she wanted our sons to go off to Sunday school, she would have to take the child predator classes the catholic church (at least hers) requires for any adult attending, and accompany our son. I really want nothing to do with it, but I said that if she can go for at least the first 3 months and get a good feel for the people teaching the class, if she happened to have to work that day, after the first 3 months I would be willing to drop my son off and wait in the parking lot with my other child or play in their park until he was done. I think it was a good comprimise. She gets what she wants, and I get my wife, who is a good judge of character, to first hand see exactly what is being taught there.
  • vim_n_vigor
    vim_n_vigor Posts: 4,089 Member

    People need to stop having personal beliefs about science. Particularly when those personal beliefs can be used to justify taking away people's rights because they are not competent to exercise them. Saying that believing in a higher power is stupid is an opinion. Saying that believing in a higher power is a disease is an attack.

    Any law takes away someone's rights. In order to protect one person's rights, you take away the rights of someone else. We take away people's rights all the time when we lock them in prisons or kill them on death row. No one is free to do whatever they want whenever they want.
  • _VoV
    _VoV Posts: 1,494 Member
    When I met my husband 22 years ago, we were both somewhere left of center both socially and fiscally. Neither of us were particularly religious, but we were both diehard vegetarians, and continue to be so.

    Over the years, my husband has become much more conservative. For a while, I joined him a bit in this point of view (at least fiscally), but I'm back to thinking the government needs to provide a safety net for people who are seriously down on their luck.

    My husband jokes that women should never have gotten the vote because my vote cancels his out (Ha ha!) and now our children--who are very liberal thinkers--more than cancel out his vote.
  • Azdak
    Azdak Posts: 8,281 Member
    When I met my husband 22 years ago, we were both somewhere left of center both socially and fiscally. Neither of us were particularly religious, but we were both diehard vegetarians, and continue to be so.

    Over the years, my husband has become much more conservative. For a while, I joined him a bit in this point of view (at least fiscally), but I'm back to thinking the government needs to provide a safety net for people who are seriously down on their luck.

    My husband jokes that women should never have gotten the vote because my vote cancels his out (Ha ha!) and now our children--who are very liberal thinkers--more than cancel out his vote.

    This seems to be a trend among men. Sometimes I wonder if it is some subconcious response to perceived loss of status as women take on increased roles in society and, in many cases, earn more than their husbands. Or some subconscious reaction to the erosion of white privilege in the US and our demographics change. I read comment forums in various newspapers and online sites and it often appears than large groups of men are becoming increasingly unhinged--the racial attacks, the use of violent and apocalyptic language and imagery , the shrill and desperate need to control women's vaginas, etc.
  • adrian_indy
    adrian_indy Posts: 1,444 Member
    I don't know....if any of us were on a train and saw an atheist quietly staring out the window and a religious person talking to an invisible friend, be honest, who is more than likely insane? lol.
  • Bahet
    Bahet Posts: 1,254 Member

    People need to stop having personal beliefs about science. Particularly when those personal beliefs can be used to justify taking away people's rights because they are not competent to exercise them. Saying that believing in a higher power is stupid is an opinion. Saying that believing in a higher power is a disease is an attack.

    Any law takes away someone's rights. In order to protect one person's rights, you take away the rights of someone else. We take away people's rights all the time when we lock them in prisons or kill them on death row. No one is free to do whatever they want whenever they want.
    Huh? What righs were lost when women were allowed to vote or blacks were allowed to marry whites? What rights will be lost if gays are allowed to marry? You still have the right to be an *kitten*. You just don't have the means to impose your hatred on others anymore (general you - not addressing any specific person unless the shoe fits.)
  • atomiclauren
    atomiclauren Posts: 689 Member
    Any law takes away someone's rights. In order to protect one person's rights, you take away the rights of someone else. We take away people's rights all the time when we lock them in prisons or kill them on death row. No one is free to do whatever they want whenever they want.
    Huh? What righs were lost when women were allowed to vote or blacks were allowed to marry whites? What rights will be lost if gays are allowed to marry? You still have the right to be an *kitten*. You just don't have the means to impose your hatred on others anymore (general you - not addressing any specific person unless the shoe fits.)

    Exactly - and it's sometimes not even about *protecting* rights but actually *allowing* them.
  • Azdak
    Azdak Posts: 8,281 Member
    When I met my husband 22 years ago, we were both somewhere left of center both socially and fiscally. Neither of us were particularly religious, but we were both diehard vegetarians, and continue to be so.

    Over the years, my husband has become much more conservative. For a while, I joined him a bit in this point of view (at least fiscally), but I'm back to thinking the government needs to provide a safety net for people who are seriously down on their luck.

    My husband jokes that women should never have gotten the vote because my vote cancels his out (Ha ha!) and now our children--who are very liberal thinkers--more than cancel out his vote.

    I just saw this today--THIS is what you need!!!!! :drinker:

    Romneysign.jpg

    One of the best political pictures I have seen.
  • MaraDiaz
    MaraDiaz Posts: 4,604 Member
    There is no way I could date someone again who has very different political beliefs and I would have a hard time dating someone who wasn't an atheist or agnostic, too. At this point in my life I just don't have any desire to try to find common ground with someone on these issues.
  • _granola
    _granola Posts: 326
    I think my political and religious beliefs are so incredibly important and shape so much of who I am and how I act in this world that dating someone who believed differently (or even someone who was apathetic toward either) would not work.

    I just can't even imagine it. Even if the person was attractive and had every other quality I was looking for, it just wouldn't work.
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