men are lucky they don't get faced with so much pressure from society.

i dont think that's true.. just about every expectation society puts on women, that society expects the opposite from men.

for instance for sex, women are expected to be chaste while men are expected to be sexually experienced. body wise, women are expected to be small and petite and men are expected to be large. the same pressure to fit in to ideals felt by an overweight slutty girl is probably going to be the same as a short celibate man.

the difference is that guys tend to either not a)give a crap and/or b) not b*tch about the unfairness as much as women do.

Yep, also I think a lot of the expectations that women have from men are also a lot more "unchangeable" (you can hardly change your shoulder size, or actual size to become larger and bigger, whereas you can lose weight even if you're "big boned").

I think fundamentally that no particular gender should feel they need to make a "rule" of these preferences, as clearly you can be accepted regardless of those "differences". Sure you will never get as many opportunities as a "tall, dark, handsome man with green eyes" (men) or a "blonde big boobed bimbo (the 4Bs)" (women), but this is definitely a good objective to aim at.
I know for me those "ideals" pushed by society are just this, ideals where I would like to be, but I don't beat myself over not reaching it - I use it as a motivator, as a goal I can visualize.

One thing I read recently, though, is that men learn to be competitive much earlier than women (we have to compete for the attention of our mum with our father or something like that). Women on the other hand tend to team up with others.
Might explain why as men we feel it's more normal to be "worse off" or "better off" than someone else, we've integrated that.

I said it before and I will say it again. Media is controlled by society and culture. It is not a separate entity with some theistic powers that we worship. Media is what WE individuals make of it. It merely reflects what we choose to believe.

This is an incredible simplification. Media in a capitalistic society does try to control the masses, although I accept the relationship is partially symbiotic.

If it supports the ruling power structure and/or if it can generate cash, then it will be preferred over all alternatives. Then it's just an exercise in manipulation.

Find a way to create a billion dollar industry out of *not* shaving your pubic hair and I'll guarantee you'll be reading hundreds of articles in women's magazines about how this is the new "thing", how it can lead to a happier sex life, how more and more men find it sexy, etc., etc.

--P

I disagree to the extent that to rule out any form of social agenda is just as much a simplification.
For example...for the last 2 plus decades all most males on TV have been portrayed as oafs,barely able to survive without their wives telling them when to breathe.
That has as much or more to do with a social drive as a financial one.

My problem is that women read these magazines and become so insecure with who they are. They try to mold themselves into what someone else wants them to be, not who them really are. Men will see the insecurities that they harbor and that is a turn off.

Yes, women need to make a concious effort to eat well, workout and look nice. Have a pleasant personality and be yourself. This will attract the man that is right for you. Don't force the issue and don't force yourself to fit into a mold that is not you....

magazine pictures.

But it's not a passive process. You are never presented with all of the options in an unbiased way. Corporations, and the corporate owned media, need you to spend money. Walmart advertises, because they want to influence you. It's very effective. You are being manipulated.

Also, I said it's symbiotic. Of course people can choose not to be manipulated. Some do. Most don't.

--P

I don't think you are giving enough credit to people. Everyone thinks that everyone else is stupid, I get that. There are stupid people, and they are magnified because people like to put them on television as a modern version of freak shows so that we can all point and laugh and feel good about ourselves, but that is a small portion of the population. I'm not brainwashed to shop at WalMart, I do it because they have competitive pricing and I'm a thrifty spender. I think that if you ask anyone why they shop at WalMart, they would say something similar. (WalMart is being used as an example because it's a large corporation that everyone is familiar with. Please do not bombard me with "OMG WalMart is EVIIILLLL" messages.)

Yes, advertising is set up a way to influence us. The same way we influence each other on a daily basis. Every time we communicate with another individual influence is happening - it's an inherent part of interaction. I don't think it's wrong or bad simply because "influence" is involved. Of course they want us to buy our products - But that doesn't mean that people go out and buy everything they see in commercials, they buy it if they want it. It's not like we're zombies walking into stores, or calling 800 numbers from infomercials with out wallets out unless the product or service has some value to us.

But it's not a passive process. You are never presented with all of the options in an unbiased way. Corporations, and the corporate owned media, need you to spend money. Walmart advertises, because they want to influence you. It's very effective. You are being manipulated.

Also, I said it's symbiotic. Of course people can choose not to be manipulated. Some do. Most don't.

--P

Have to say.. I totally agree with this concept.

My advice - STOP READING AND WATCHING *kitten*. I'm talking about all the celebrity magazines, Cosmo, E!, whatever it is that makes you feel like crap. I've stopped looking at beauty magazines, and will only on very rare occasions watch some kind of celebrity show. Very rare occasions. All of these things make money based on women feeling like *kitten*.

Just put it down, because guess what? Every woman is different. There is no such thing as a perfect breast or nipple.... have a pair? Guys are gonna be happy. Don't want a Brazilian wax? Don't get one. Pale, tan, whatever....men don't care. Confidence and inner beauty will shine through. Who gives a rip what a magazine thinks is beautiful.

Yes, eat healthy food. Yes, pay attention to what you wear and dress for your shape. But, don't spend hours of your day or week obsessing over what a magazine or tv tells you you're supposed to look like. Because men love women in all shapes, sizes and colors.


(Sorry.....this is a hot button issue with me....)

myself and my friends would have big issues if a woman wasn't well groomed. just like i would expect women would have issues if a man wasn't well groomed.

if someone i was dating had a 1970's level of grooming that would probably be our last date.

My advice - STOP READING AND WATCHING *kitten*. I'm talking about all the celebrity magazines, Cosmo, E!, whatever it is that makes you feel like crap. I've stopped looking at beauty magazines, and will only on very rare occasions watch some kind of celebrity show. Very rare occasions. All of these things make money based on women feeling like *kitten*.

Just put it down, because guess what? Every woman is different. There is no such thing as a perfect breast or nipple.... have a pair? Guys are gonna be happy. Don't want a Brazilian wax? Don't get one. Pale, tan, whatever....men don't care. Confidence and inner beauty will shine through. Who gives a rip what a magazine thinks is beautiful.

Yes, eat healthy food. Yes, pay attention to what you wear and dress for your shape. But, don't spend hours of your day or week obsessing over what a magazine or tv tells you you're supposed to look like. Because men love women in all shapes, sizes and colors.


(Sorry.....this is a hot button issue with me....)

myself and my friends would have big issues if a woman wasn't well groomed. just like i would expect women would have issues if a man wasn't well groomed.

if someone i was dating had a 1970's level of grooming that would probably be our last date.

haha, that is a good one

I like it too, I feel like I need to use it 80% of the time too, so I should just save it on my desktop haha

I think most of the stuff about media expectations for the way either men or women need to look is a bunch of garbage. The women or men you see posterized as beautiful are elite. They are called supermodels for a reason - not everyone looks like that. Otherwise, they'd be called typical or average. As far as the notion that the muscular look is the ideal body type for men, all I can say is JUSTIN BIEBER.

Justin Bieber isn't a man.

The report says that the ideal male body type has changed over the years. Therefore young men are going to extremes to obtain a more muscular body type. I see absolutely nothing wrong with men trying to obtain an optimal physique and working hard for it.
Thoughts?

Well just like women have been objectified for decades with playboys and victoria secret models to compare themselves to, us guys are suddenly not up to female lofty expectations of looking like channing tatum, ryan gosling or any other ripped starlet.

I personally don't have an issue with it. America needs a health revolution in a bad way. On the flip side however, I don't believe in being with someone solely for looks, but let's be honest, looks are what attracts us to each other in the first place. So just like a job resume, make the appearance look great and follow it up with personality.

And now that I've read all 4 pages. I think the pubic hair among other expectations is just something that has become "the norm". 50 years ago people didn't take nearly as good care of their bodies as we do today. For me it would also be unacceptable if a woman didn't shave her legs, shower regularly or brush her teeth. I don't feel I have any expectations for a woman that I cannot meet myself in terms of things I can control, including my hygiene, grooming and fitness levels. I feel like that's perfectly fair.