Yes, Alice, if you are older, and have a higher body fat %, then the typical calculators can be very much off. Even then, our own body mechanisms and hormone levels, etc can throw the numbers off even more.
MFP calculates my BMR at like 1650, based strictly on my weight. But the standard calculators do not take in account your body fat %. They are assuming that you are at an average BF% of 25-30%. For those of us who fall outside of that norm, the numbers can be very much off. For those with lower BF%, like bodybuilders, they know they must eat considerably more than the calculators say. I once worked with men who ate 10k calories a day just to keep from losing weight, and they did no cardio whatsoever. Muscle mass just really requires a lot of calories to sustain.
On the opposite end, my BF% was around 56% when I started in Aug. MFP said my BMR was almost 1700! That was actually my maintenance level at the time. I knew that could not be right. So I simply took 500 cals off of what I knew to be my maintenance level and have lost 34 pounds since then.

I got so much vitriol from people on the forums attacking me for eating at the 'dreaded 1200' level, but I knew what was right for my body. I then heard about the Katch Mcardle BMR calculator and learned about how much of a difference body fat % made. I figured my BMR using that method and voila! It was actually only 1300 at the time instead of 1700 like MFP said. 400 calorie difference! Factor in the 1.2 activity level and that was 500 difference in my TDEE. So if I went by the numbers MFP said, I would not have lost an ounce in the past 5 months, and would have been ready to kill someone by now.

I also learned that not only did a higher BF% affect your BMR, but it also affected how many calories you burn while exercising. Since the exercise calorie calculators are using your weight and not your BF% to calculate your burns, they assume you have an average muscle mass % comparable to your weight. If you do not, and you have a higher than average BF%, then you are not burning as many calories as someone else who is the same weight but has a lower BF% than you do.

After starting to use a Heart Rate Monitor, (Polar FT4), i had first learned that MFP was giving me twice the number of calories burned than I actual was according to my HRM. Then when I took out my TDEE % to get my 'net' calorie burn, it dropped the number even lower. Now when I consider the difference in the burns with my BF% being so high, my 1 hour bike rides that MFP says I burn 800 calories on, are actually only around 200 calories, on top of my TDEE.

And this is why I do not eat back many, if any of my exercise calories.

And since I am very sedentary outside of my 4-5 rides a week, even with the exercise I am still within the definition of sedentary. I am attempting to make myself move more thru out the day, by wearing a pedometer and shooting for 5k steps a day. On a typical day that I stay at home, I found I got less than 1k steps in. Yeah, I am THAT sedentary! Just doing laundry and house chores doesn't take a whole lot of energy.

Here is a link to a good site that has 2 calculators- one that figures your ideal weight and what your BMR/TDEE would be at that weight, and the one on the right uses your current BF% to figure your BMR/TDEE

http://www.cordianet.com/calculator.htm

If you do not know your BF%, you can find some calculators online. They can also vary quite a bit from each other, depending on where you carry your weight. The ones that use your wrist and forearm measurements put me around 20% BF. HA! This is because I have very skinny arms and carry all my weight in my belly. The Military BF% Calculator uses neck, waist, and hip measurements and is very accurate for me.

You can also figure an approximate BF% just by subtracting what an average Lean Body Mass for someone your height would be, from your actual weight. Anything above your LBM is fat weight.

For example- a 5'6" woman has a LBM of between 100 and 110 pounds. (someone who is into heavy weight lifting or an athlete who is more muscular would have a higher LBM, but most of us middle aged ladies don't fall into that category!)
Using that number, someone weighing 200-220 pounds would be around 50% BF. YIKES!

Check out the calculator from that link above and play around with different BF% numbers to see how great a difference it makes in your BMR.

At 200 pounds- a 50% BF% has a BMR of 1349, where a BF% of only 5% (male bodybuilder) has a BMR of 2231.

I really wish that MFP would add the Katch Mcardle calculator to their system as an option. It is just so much more accurate for many people who are considerably overweight.

But even with a more accurate calculator, the bottom line is what your actual numbers end of being. Just like you said. We can get an idea where to start, but trial and error is the only way to get the actual correct numbers for you.

And when we figure out what works for us, we have to ignore all the 'experts' on here that try to tell us that we are wrong!

Thanks for posting this topic!

I truly believe the numbers are too high for me too. At least right now. I've been trying to lose a dreaded 5 pounds for a year now. Tweaking numbers all over the place. and...nada.

Every calculator gives me different numbers.

One actually suggests that we eat 250-500 calories LESS THAN BMR???
http://www.bellyfatblues.com/calorie-intake-for-weight-loss.html

It's an interesting topic. I'm still pretty new here so I'm focusing on just a couple of things to start with to keep it simple and easy to follow. Maybe I'll start calculating all those acronyms later but for now I'm doing the 1200 calories a day that was set up in MBF and exercising if I want more than that which is usually something each day. I think I'll stay away from the general forums with these statements cause it amazes me sometimes how passionate people get about what they perceive you are doing 'wrong.' Nice to have a group to share with that gives gentle feedback.

[/quote]Yeah. It can be kinda stunning. My favorite is when the 20something boy with 12pack abs tells me menopause has no effect on weight loss. :happy: You're in the right place.
[/quote]


OMG, you just made spit water out my nose!!!!!!!!!! :laugh: :blushing: :laugh:

:laugh: :laugh:

Every calculator gives me different numbers.

One actually suggests that we eat 250-500 calories LESS THAN BMR???
http://www.bellyfatblues.com/calorie-intake-for-weight-loss.html

Realistically, if my TDEE is off by 300 calories, wouldn't my BMR be off by that much, too? Fact is, I don't lose unless I'm under my alleged BMR. When you get to be over 50, your TDEE and BMR can be so close together (unless you do heaps of exercise) that it's nickel and diming every ounce.

Right, but that can't be the case for all, and 500 calories below BMR as a default suggestion?

I lose just below my supposed BMR. I think that's the true issue: our numbers are off, and our margins are much smaller. Still 500 below an already low BMR could be awfully low. (she talks about unsupervised 800 calorie a day diets on her site...)

It's an interesting topic. I'm still pretty new here so I'm focusing on just a couple of things to start with to keep it simple and easy to follow. Maybe I'll start calculating all those acronyms later but for now I'm doing the 1200 calories a day that was set up in MBF and exercising if I want more than that which is usually something each day. I think I'll stay away from the general forums with these statements cause it amazes me sometimes how passionate people get about what they perceive you are doing 'wrong.' Nice to have a group to share with that gives gentle feedback.

Yeah. It can be kinda stunning. My favorite is when the 20something boy with 12pack abs tells me menopause has no effect on weight loss. :happy: You're in the right place.

It does make for interesting reading sometimes as long as you can stop yourself from commenting.

I try to resist. But a few times, when the bare chested boy starts mocking, I have replied with: come back and reply when YOU go through menopause. :embarassed:

I have enough trouble keeping up with Calories and Fat Grams.....Guess I got a lot to learn??? :huh:

I'm finding that being diligent in using the food/exercise diary really helps. After 5 weeks I know what 30 min. on the bike does burn, and what a slice of meatloaf really "costs" in calories. It's a (short) learning curve. Hang in there - it's worth it!

Brooke from Colorado

I also have a lot to learn, but I think I'm getting there. Like Brooke, the food and exercise diary make a huge difference for me. I am learning what the impact of exercise has on my calories.

Sabine, you gave me the best laugh for today :flowerforyou: !

Truth is, many of the calculators are really guidelines, we are all quite different. Two people can be exactly the same weight and height, but one can eat more than the other. There are so many factors. The MFP numbers so far work for me, but once I hit a plateau I'll have to play around.

... I have been plateaued for 3 MONTHS ...

I've hit a plateau since December and it's starting to bug me. It's good to know others hit a plateau as well. Maybe I'll check all those numbers (although it makes my head spin to have to think that hard). <sigh> Thanks for the notice!

Debbielynns post was a very informative reply to the OP. Thanks for all the information!

After reading through Debbielyn's post and figuring out my numbers. Seems like the easiest thing to do is get your weight loss calorie number based on how much exercise you do. So the exercise is figured in up front and you don't eat back calories. I feel this is probably the best way, since it's so hard to calculate how many calories you actually burn doing exercise.

Not to mention it just seems easier to me hitting the same number daily rather than the up and down cycle.

For an entirely different take, look at fat2fit. They suggest eating the number of calories you WILL eat when you get to the smaller weight.
http://www.fat2fitradio.com/tools/bmr/

And they have some good calculators.

@Sabine -- I tried that because it seemed to make so much sense, but my body pretty quickly adjusted to that level of calorie intake and I stopped losing. It actually had the undesirable effect of lowering my TDEE. When I reach my goal weight, hopefully I can adjust back up to that level. The body has an amazing capacity for adapting to what we give it.

That's good to know.
I think at this point I'm just trying not to gain lol.