Transgender fighter Fallon Fox fighting women
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SemperAnticus1643
Posts: 703 Member
Fallon Fox was born a male in California. Fox had gender surgery to become a woman and was/is doing hormone therapy. Fox then moves to Florida and gets licensed to fight in Florida as a woman. Fox claims that she is at a disadvantage now because if she ceases to continue hormone therapy, she is susceptible to osteoporosis among other things that she has "lost" in her transition from male to female.
Do you think it's fair that a person born a male can have gender surgery, become a female (legal recognition), and compete against other women in an athletic/sporting atmosphere??
Do you think it's fair that a person born a male can have gender surgery, become a female (legal recognition), and compete against other women in an athletic/sporting atmosphere??
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Replies
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You know I am gonna have to say, If you were born as a male you should compete as a male, even if you have the gender surgery. There is just no way to be sure it's fair to the female athletes. So to eliminate any issues and problems they shouldn't be able to compete outside there original gender.................course we could do transgender sports
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the real question is should Fallon be allowed to vote?0
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I'd have more questions before I could answer.......is she bigger/stronger/more powerful? Does she pose a threat or demonstrate an advantage that would set her apart?
I'm all about fairness. If she is demonstrably stronger or something as a leftover effect of having a male level of testosterone, then that isn't fair, and she should not be competing in that case.0 -
I believe in equal rights for all
Anyone from any gender should be able to fight in the men and/or womens tournaments0 -
I'm all about fairness. If she is demonstrably stronger or something as a leftover effect of having a male level of testosterone, then that isn't fair, and she should not be competing in that case.
This is my thought. I would assume her testosterone levels are very low though, through hormone therapy. So I don't see the issue with fighting other women.0 -
I'm just gonna be honest here. I'm for equality across the board. I do not discriminate on basis of gender or race or sexual orientation.
But it's getting downright impossible to keep up with this *kitten* these days.0 -
I'm all for people getting this done but if you were born a specific gender, you are that gender for life regardless of what plastic surgery you get. I'm fine with a guy wanting to do the surgery and living as a female but HE shouldn't be allowed to compete in gender specific sports as a female.0
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What is a male and female? XX or XY chromosome, or a functioning bit between the legs? Whats written on a birth certificate?
What about females with an XY Chromosome?
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Androgen_insensitivity_syndrome0 -
What is a male and female? XX or XY chromosome, or a functioning bit between the legs? Whats written on a birth certificate?
What about females with an XY Chromosome?
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Androgen_insensitivity_syndrome
I'm not sure what your point is. Are you saying that there should be no separate classes between the men and women? The categories are based on gender-normal people, where men have an advantage over women. The question at hand is if someone who CHOSE to switch should be allowed to compete against natural women (I don't mean that in a derogatory way at all). How he/she feels inside is irrelevant. This is about physical strength and having an unfair advantage.0 -
i don't see that this is a big deal. she's on the hormone regement, so her hormones will allow her to only train to the levels that a woman can.
honestly, if she's gone through the HELL of sex reassignment, she's not going to screw with her hormones. i'd be more worried about the other women dosing w/ T, than a post-op woman risking all that she's fought for, for so long.
i could see the debate about the intersexed track and field woman at the olympics - b/c she was an XY female and it could be argued that her raised T levels would give an advantage in training.
but going through SRS is NOT easy. it is NOT something that is just handed out. there are men and women who have to fight tooth and nail to be able to get the surgery. first you have to be formally diagnosed with Gender Identity Disorder - then you have to go through at LEAST a year of intense therapy as well as drug treatment - to make sure that it's not a Body Dismorphic Disorder - and most decide to take part in body movement therapy where they are learning to walk and talk and present as the gender they are transitioning to as well as introducing hormone therapy, which can wreak havvoc on the body at first, magnify puberty by 30x. THEN you have to find the money. b/c don't think for a minute that insurance wants to pay for it. the insurance companies say that this is cosmetic surgery - even though it IS a medical need. so there is a LOT of money that you need to find. and that's all BEFORE you have to go through many varried and often times PAINFUL surgeries and risk surgical complications every single time.
the process of transitioning takes YEARS and tens of thousands of dollars. this woman is NOT going to mess with her T levels.0 -
What is a male and female? XX or XY chromosome, or a functioning bit between the legs? Whats written on a birth certificate?
What about females with an XY Chromosome?
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Androgen_insensitivity_syndrome
I'm not sure what your point is. Are you saying that there should be no separate classes between the men and women? The categories are based on gender-normal people, where men have an advantage over women. The question at hand is if someone who CHOSE to switch should be allowed to compete against natural women (I don't mean that in a derogatory way at all). How he/she feels inside is irrelevant. This is about physical strength and having an unfair advantage.
I'm saying its just too confusing, and let her fight if she wants to fight.0 -
i don't see that this is a big deal. she's on the hormone regement, so her hormones will allow her to only train to the levels that a woman can.
honestly, if she's gone through the HELL of sex reassignment, she's not going to screw with her hormones. i'd be more worried about the other women dosing w/ T, than a post-op woman risking all that she's fought for, for so long.
i could see the debate about the intersexed track and field woman at the olympics - b/c she was an XY female and it could be argued that her raised T levels would give an advantage in training.
but going through SRS is NOT easy. it is NOT something that is just handed out. there are men and women who have to fight tooth and nail to be able to get the surgery. first you have to be formally diagnosed with Gender Identity Disorder - then you have to go through at LEAST a year of intense therapy as well as drug treatment - to make sure that it's not a Body Dismorphic Disorder - and most decide to take part in body movement therapy where they are learning to walk and talk and present as the gender they are transitioning to as well as introducing hormone therapy, which can wreak havvoc on the body at first, magnify puberty by 30x. THEN you have to find the money. b/c don't think for a minute that insurance wants to pay for it. the insurance companies say that this is cosmetic surgery - even though it IS a medical need. so there is a LOT of money that you need to find. and that's all BEFORE you have to go through many varried and often times PAINFUL surgeries and risk surgical complications every single time.
the process of transitioning takes YEARS and tens of thousands of dollars. this woman is NOT going to mess with her T levels.
So you admit she is doping. DQ0 -
i don't see that this is a big deal. she's on the hormone regement, so her hormones will allow her to only train to the levels that a woman can.
honestly, if she's gone through the HELL of sex reassignment, she's not going to screw with her hormones. i'd be more worried about the other women dosing w/ T, than a post-op woman risking all that she's fought for, for so long.
i could see the debate about the intersexed track and field woman at the olympics - b/c she was an XY female and it could be argued that her raised T levels would give an advantage in training.
but going through SRS is NOT easy. it is NOT something that is just handed out. there are men and women who have to fight tooth and nail to be able to get the surgery. first you have to be formally diagnosed with Gender Identity Disorder - then you have to go through at LEAST a year of intense therapy as well as drug treatment - to make sure that it's not a Body Dismorphic Disorder - and most decide to take part in body movement therapy where they are learning to walk and talk and present as the gender they are transitioning to as well as introducing hormone therapy, which can wreak havvoc on the body at first, magnify puberty by 30x. THEN you have to find the money. b/c don't think for a minute that insurance wants to pay for it. the insurance companies say that this is cosmetic surgery - even though it IS a medical need. so there is a LOT of money that you need to find. and that's all BEFORE you have to go through many varried and often times PAINFUL surgeries and risk surgical complications every single time.
the process of transitioning takes YEARS and tens of thousands of dollars. this woman is NOT going to mess with her T levels.
So you admit she is doping. DQ
no. she would be taking estrogen. that is the OPPOSITE of doping. doping would be a woman taking testosterone.0 -
Fight History
DATE EVENT OPPONENT RESULT DECISION RND TIME
Mar 2, 2013 CFA 10: McSweeney vs. Staring Ericka Newsome Win KO RD 1 TIME 0:39
May 17, 2012 KOTC: Wild Card Elisha Helsper Win TKO (Injury) RD 1 TIME 2:00
Fallon Fox has fought in two sanctioned fights as a woman. Please note that SHE has 1 TKO due to injury in round 1, 2 minutes in and her latest victory...KO, Rd 1, Time of :39.0 -
This story intrigued me because my initial reaction was some version of the "equality for all" sentiment some have posted. Then I read Joe Rogan's publicized response, and while par for Joe Rogan (not necessarily classy), he did make a point that I found hard to ignore: different bone structure.I'm just gonna be honest here. I'm for equality across the board. I do not discriminate on basis of gender or race or sexual orientation.
But it's getting downright impossible to keep up with this *kitten* these days.
If you are going to separate men and women in a sport (they do not compete against each other), the reasons used to justify segregated competition should hold here. This is a sport where physiology/body type/bone structure can have a significant role in competitive advantage.
In other words, if an organization says men and women cannot compete against each other because of physical attributes (bone structure, muscle development, etc.) then I can see the argument for not allowing Fallon to fight as a woman.0 -
i don't see that this is a big deal. she's on the hormone regement, so her hormones will allow her to only train to the levels that a woman can.
honestly, if she's gone through the HELL of sex reassignment, she's not going to screw with her hormones. i'd be more worried about the other women dosing w/ T, than a post-op woman risking all that she's fought for, for so long.
i could see the debate about the intersexed track and field woman at the olympics - b/c she was an XY female and it could be argued that her raised T levels would give an advantage in training.
but going through SRS is NOT easy. it is NOT something that is just handed out. there are men and women who have to fight tooth and nail to be able to get the surgery. first you have to be formally diagnosed with Gender Identity Disorder - then you have to go through at LEAST a year of intense therapy as well as drug treatment - to make sure that it's not a Body Dismorphic Disorder - and most decide to take part in body movement therapy where they are learning to walk and talk and present as the gender they are transitioning to as well as introducing hormone therapy, which can wreak havvoc on the body at first, magnify puberty by 30x. THEN you have to find the money. b/c don't think for a minute that insurance wants to pay for it. the insurance companies say that this is cosmetic surgery - even though it IS a medical need. so there is a LOT of money that you need to find. and that's all BEFORE you have to go through many varried and often times PAINFUL surgeries and risk surgical complications every single time.
the process of transitioning takes YEARS and tens of thousands of dollars. this woman is NOT going to mess with her T levels.
Are we sure that it has no advantage? If I were a fight organizer, I'd want to see hard evidence before I made a decision. Do you have any sources on testosterone levels or athletic performance in men that have undergone hormone therapy?0 -
i don't see that this is a big deal. she's on the hormone regement, so her hormones will allow her to only train to the levels that a woman can.
honestly, if she's gone through the HELL of sex reassignment, she's not going to screw with her hormones. i'd be more worried about the other women dosing w/ T, than a post-op woman risking all that she's fought for, for so long.
i could see the debate about the intersexed track and field woman at the olympics - b/c she was an XY female and it could be argued that her raised T levels would give an advantage in training.
but going through SRS is NOT easy. it is NOT something that is just handed out. there are men and women who have to fight tooth and nail to be able to get the surgery. first you have to be formally diagnosed with Gender Identity Disorder - then you have to go through at LEAST a year of intense therapy as well as drug treatment - to make sure that it's not a Body Dismorphic Disorder - and most decide to take part in body movement therapy where they are learning to walk and talk and present as the gender they are transitioning to as well as introducing hormone therapy, which can wreak havvoc on the body at first, magnify puberty by 30x. THEN you have to find the money. b/c don't think for a minute that insurance wants to pay for it. the insurance companies say that this is cosmetic surgery - even though it IS a medical need. so there is a LOT of money that you need to find. and that's all BEFORE you have to go through many varried and often times PAINFUL surgeries and risk surgical complications every single time.
the process of transitioning takes YEARS and tens of thousands of dollars. this woman is NOT going to mess with her T levels.
Are we sure that it has no advantage? If I were a fight organizer, I'd want to see hard evidence before I made a decision. Do you have any sources on testosterone levels or athletic performance in men that have undergone hormone therapy?
honesetly, no, i don't. nor can i find any either way. i have a feeling that the studies are being done, but have not yet been conclusive.
but there are genetic females who are being questioned about sports b/c they have naturally-occuring higher T levels. i gues the question would be: where is the line? how do you know if a genetic female is doping w/ T, or if it's natural? and if a trans woman is taking estrogen, does that actually put her at a DISADVANTAGE to the T-doping/T-high genetic women?
my point was actually that this woman - as a trans woman on hormone therapy - would be LESS likely to T dope than her genetic-female counterparts.0 -
yes.0
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This story intrigued me because my initial reaction was some version of the "equality for all" sentiment some have posted. Then I read Joe Rogan's publicized response, and while par for Joe Rogan (not necessarily classy), he did make a point that I found hard to ignore: different bone structure.I'm just gonna be honest here. I'm for equality across the board. I do not discriminate on basis of gender or race or sexual orientation.
But it's getting downright impossible to keep up with this *kitten* these days.
If you are going to separate men and women in a sport (they do not compete against each other), the reasons used to justify segregated competition should hold here. This is a sport where physiology/body type/bone structure can have a significant role in competitive advantage.
In other words, if an organization says men and women cannot compete against each other because of physical attributes (bone structure, muscle development, etc.) then I can see the argument for not allowing Fallon to fight as a woman.
I too have heard that reasoning. That even though Fox is legally a woman now, she still have the broader build and bigger hands of a male. The surgery did not change her bone structure.0 -
This story intrigued me because my initial reaction was some version of the "equality for all" sentiment some have posted. Then I read Joe Rogan's publicized response, and while par for Joe Rogan (not necessarily classy), he did make a point that I found hard to ignore: different bone structure.I'm just gonna be honest here. I'm for equality across the board. I do not discriminate on basis of gender or race or sexual orientation.
But it's getting downright impossible to keep up with this *kitten* these days.
If you are going to separate men and women in a sport (they do not compete against each other), the reasons used to justify segregated competition should hold here. This is a sport where physiology/body type/bone structure can have a significant role in competitive advantage.
In other words, if an organization says men and women cannot compete against each other because of physical attributes (bone structure, muscle development, etc.) then I can see the argument for not allowing Fallon to fight as a woman.
I too have heard that reasoning. That even though Fox is legally a woman now, she still have the broader build and bigger hands of a male. The surgery did not change her bone structure.
i'm 5'10". i wear a men's 10 shoe. i wear men's large gloves. i have a bone structure that is on the scale as "massive". my rings are all men's sizes. my shoulders are broader than my hips. i am genetically female.
there are a lot of women out there who have large builds. the actual structure of the body is not very different between the sexes. the differences are in the hormones.0
