Sleep Training
chickybuns
Posts: 1,037 Member
So this all came about after I let MIles (8.5 months) cry tonight. He has always been a good sleeper, but for about a week he has not been wanting to go to bed until 10 or 11, 9 is about normal. He is usually clearly tired but has been fighting it. I thought it was teething because his tooth is through, but it is continuing. So anyway I let him cry for abou 40 minutes. At first I checked on him and tried to comfort but that just made it worse. After I stopped going it within 5 minutes he cried on and off, but it wasn't the serious cry. He was standing for most of this time too. when I went to check on him after he'd been quiet for a few minutes, he was asleep sitting with his head against the crib...I layed him down and he stayed asleep. Anyway I'm so conflicted about this and just wanted other opinions/experiences. Now I kind of feel terrible because I feel I neglected him when he needed me. On the other hand, I don't want to create long-term bad habits of him having to be held and rocked to sleep. I'm also concerned he isn't getting enough sleep lately. The one night he went to bed early in the last week I think was from pure exhaustion.
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Being consistent is key. I know it's the awful to hear them cry but the first 3 nights are the worst. I have been going through the same with my daughter and had to do the same with my son (who is now 4 and an awesome sleeper). Babies are smart and know you will come back in the room and pick them up if they are crying. Doctors tell you not to sleep train before 6 months old,and some people will tell you to never ever let your baby cry. Well,they obviously don't have problems getting their kid to sleep because anyone who has a baby who can't self soothe,knows how exhausting it is for everyone. Babies need sleep. Period. If it means crying for a few days to get them used to self soothing,then be it. By 8,9,10+ months is a good time to do CIO. You will occasionally have set backs,i.e: if you're traveling or baby teething,sick etc. But once that is over,get back on it again. You will be so happy you did! A baby (and mother)who sleeps is a happy baby.
Have you read Sleep Easy Solution? Its a great book and helps you see the logic behind sleep training.
Just give your little boy lots of extra hugs and cuddles during the day, He'll be sleeping through the night before you know it
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Everyone has their own style but I can't imagine letting a child of any age cry for 40+ minutes. My dd is 6 months and I'll let her cry (not wail) for 10 minutes. If she still doesn't appear to be self soothing I pick her up and do a quiet activity for a while and try again.0
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I personally can't listen to my baby cry that long. I did all things that were suppose to bad for good sleep habits (bed shared for first year and a half , nursed to sleep for 18 months) but my oldest started falling asleep on her own at two and by three no longer wakes uip at night. Hopefully my 17 month old will transition well too. We used No Cry Sleep Solutions0
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I wouldn't let him cry for more than 10-15 minutes. You can go in, but don't pick him up. Just give him a hug if he's standing or rub his back or something, but put him back down if he's standing. My older son, who was overall a great sleeper, did this for a bit, and it usually coincided with teething. However putting music on in the room seemed to distract him enough to stop freaking out and to fall asleep on his own. Of course now he can't sleep without music on...0
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'Controlled crying' is a recognised method of teaching a baby to go to sleep on their own. It also takes a great deal of willpower on behalf of everyone in the household and very understanding neighbours! It is a method I've tried before when my eldest was around the same age, but not succeeded with. My son was extremely stubborn and after about 10 days was no closer to self soothing. We gave up all exhausted and just then waited for him to be old enough to understand more about bedtime, which was about seven months later. If you think this is a practice you wish to persue I suggest you read up a little more on the method, as it does not involve letting an infant cry for that length of time. Good luck. I know bedtime can be tricky if your infant is not in sync with your own needs.0
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This is tough call and individual to each family. My husband and I actually did not agree on this part of parenting at all and really fought t his one out.. He wanted to let her "cry it out" and I did not. He ended up doing it once when I was out and it did not work and just made him feel bad, so we never did it again. We ended up cosleeping, which works beautifully for us (though it is not for everyone!).
I researched it and read studies, but the end decision came down to instincts. It felt completely wrong to let her cry and went against everything in me that needed to tend to her. I myself have never been the best sleeper, despite my parents using CIO on me. I wake often and sometimes I am hungry or thirsty or simply need to stir a bit. I would hate to be left alone in a room, defenseless with no way to tend to my own needs, especially if I were upset. I explained it that way to my husband and he understood.
I read the book, The No Cry Sleep Solution by Elizabeth Patley ( I think that is her name) as well as other gentle sleep solutions and they all seem to have done the trick. We had and still have set backs, but she ended up becoming a wonderful sleeper. She is three and falls asleep within minutes of her bedtime routine wrapping up. I think she would have either way, but this route was much less traumatic for all of us and I never had to wonder if I was damaging her in some way. I think I Would have otherwise.
I found this article to be informative. She also links to studies on other parts of her site, but this one had some good tips for all parents regarding sleep.
http://www.phdinparenting.com/blog/2009/2/28/gentle-baby-and-toddler-sleep-tips.html
A great quote was this one:
"Our kids are only little for such a short period of time. It isn't always easy dealing with night wakings or sleep deprivation and I know it is frustrating for a lot of parents. I think it is important though to realize that it will pass, things will get better."
I do not personally believe you HAVE to sleep train or CIO in order for your child to become a good sleeper or know how to self soothe and I often wonder why we value independance so early in life. Babies are designed to be dependant on us in a lot of ways. I do think each family should do what they are most comfortable with though and whatever gets everyone the most sleep. For us, that was not CIO. Good luck, mama!! I think all parents go through rough patches in regards to sleep. I am pregnant again and not looking forward to that at all!0 -
I think as a mom it's always hard to listen to your little one cry. However, it is sometimes necessary. I was just at my daughter's 9 month appointment and we talked a lot about her sleeping habits. My husband "told on me" for not letting her cry for more than 4 minutes... The Dr. made it pretty clear that while I'm not doing anything wrong, I will pay for it later. A few days/weeks of crying is worth it when she's older and still up every few hours expecting mommy to come pick her up. Or when baby number 2 shows up and then I have to bad sleepers...
I think you should go with your gut. 40 minutes is a long time but, like you said, it wasn't a solid 40 minutes. He was probably just testing you to see if you would come get him. Another point my Dr made is to not pick him up. Adjust his blanket, give him his passy, etc but just rub or pat him. It's so hard but babies are SOOO smart. They know if I cry, mom will pick me up.
Good luck and you have to do what works for you. Every mom, dad and baby are different. Everyone has an opinion and it's really easy to pass judgment when they aren't in your shoes. Go with your gut. Someone mentioned consistency, just stick with it and make it a routine. You can do it!0 -
I let Alex whine and cry-babble for awhile, not sure that I've ever timed it. Always at nap time because (*knocking vigorously on wood*) he goes down at night pretty easy, he will maybe cry for a minute before he's wiped. I think there's a difference between crying and screaming from desperation/needing something. Our kids are old enough now that they know we're out there and it's nicer to be held then to have to go to sleep. I think a couple days and he'll get the idea. I don't think that doing a little crying will hurt the fellow as long as it is the normal "but Mom I'm TIRED" crying and not a panicked cry (I think we all know the difference).0
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It wasn't constant screaming. And I looked into Ferber method and other controlled crying. It jsut seems like when I would go in there and try to comfort him it made it way worse and he would cry hard. But after the last time, within 2 minutes it was just on and off and more the whiny crys...not serious. I would not let him scream for 40 minutes straight! I know I need to decide and be consistent. I think I'm going to focus more on a bedtime routine. For those of you that don't let them cry or for long what do you do? The last week I have been rocking and holding him to sleep, but it would take up to 5 times becuase everytime I sat him down he would scream again. And it made me feel better when he was sitting up smiling at me this morning I just feel like it has to be all or nothing. I feel like either let him cry to sleep or don't let him cry. Picking him up after a few minutes would seem to defeat the purpose of anything to me. 0
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I let Alex whine and cry-babble for awhile, not sure that I've ever timed it. Always at nap time because (*knocking vigorously on wood*) he goes down at night pretty easy, he will maybe cry for a minute before he's wiped. I think there's a difference between crying and screaming from desperation/needing something. Our kids are old enough now that they know we're out there and it's nicer to be held then to have to go to sleep. I think a couple days and he'll get the idea. I don't think that doing a little crying will hurt the fellow as long as it is the normal "but Mom I'm TIRED" crying and not a panicked cry (I think we all know the difference).
^^This.
Edited to add: But I do often time it. I try not to go in before 5. Never let it go longer than 10.0 -
It wasn't constant screaming. And I looked into Ferber method and other controlled crying. It jsut seems like when I would go in there and try to comfort him it made it way worse and he would cry hard. But after the last time, within 2 minutes it was just on and off and more the whiny crys...not serious. I would not let him scream for 40 minutes straight! I know I need to decide and be consistent. I think I'm going to focus more on a bedtime routine. For those of you that don't let them cry or for long what do you do? The last week I have been rocking and holding him to sleep, but it would take up to 5 times becuase everytime I sat him down he would scream again. And it made me feel better when he was sitting up smiling at me this morning I just feel like it has to be all or nothing. I feel like either let him cry to sleep or don't let him cry. Picking him up after a few minutes would seem to defeat the purpose of anything to me.
To be honest, I nursed or rocked her to sleep until the bedtime routine really started to work. It took a month or so, but soon she would start yawning towards the end of the routine and I would snuggle with her for less than 2 minutes and she was out. That is still the case today. We do our bedtime routine (teeth, pj's, books and then bed), we snuggle and she is out. She actually started asking to be in her own bed in the last week or so and has been falling asleep without many snuggles. She is very independant in all areas, so I knew it was only a matter of time before she would be here, too. I will miss the baby snuggles for sure.
Routine and consistancy are very important, no matter how you do it. You just have to figure out what you are most comfortable with and go with it. Each family and baby is so different that there is no one size fits all approach. Some do really well with some controlled crying, others not so much. I do not think my daughter would have done very well personality wise and I know for certain it would have traumatized me (there is abuse in my childhood).
I do not regret or question the way I did it for a second and to me, that is worth the extra time it took to get her onto a good routine that gets everyone lots of rest. For the first few weeks of the bedtime routine we would go through the whole shibang and she would still fight going to sleep. We stayed in dark room with her, in bed and kept everything VERY boring for her to let her know that it was time for sleep. This was horribly boring and at times we had to tag team the effort because it would take so long to get her down. That week or two is now a blip though and in retrospect she "got it" fairly quickly.0 -
I agree with what others have said! We've recently gone through similar issues. I think it was the 8mo sleep regression paired with teething. Jaxon has been on the same bedtime routine since he was 2 months old and has always fell asleep within minutes of putting him down except the past couple weeks! He fought going to sleep and would wake up 2-3 or sometimes 4-5 times a night! he sleeps with us and I always lay with him to put him down and every time he'd sit up I'd lay him back down..I wouldn't talk to him or anything but I would pat his belly or butt depending on which way he would lay. He only cried a little before falling asleep or back to sleep. We have tried CIO and it's just not for us!
I read sleep regression can last 2-6 weeks but I think with Jax it lasted less than 2 weeks. He's back to being my good sleeper!
Good luck girlie!0 -
I never used CIO method. It breaks my heart to hear my LO cry any type of cry, whether its a tired cry and cranky cry. Baby's only way of communication at this stage is by crying. I unknowingly let my LO cry yesterday, I was in the office and he woke up from a nap, he didn't cry for more than 10mins but when I went to him, he was uncontrollable for like 10mins. I felt like the worst person ever. :-/ My LO self soothes and falls asleep on his own, but he does have days where he is over-tired at night and has a hard time falling asleep, I usually rock him to sleep when hes like that and when I put him down if he wakes up I will just rub his back so he knows I am still there. It works for us. 90% of the time I just put him in his crib and leave the room and he goes to sleep without issues. We did go threw a stage for about a month where he would have a veeeeeeeeerrryyy hard time falling asleep and I did the rocking thing and back rub soothe. Hes fine now and is in bed 8-8:30 every night. I hope you find something that works for you.0
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I think you have to do what works for you. Period.
For me, I can't do the crying method for any amount of time, but we can sleep in if we have to, so that works for us. Also, Devon gets more worked up rather than calming down, so we just don't do that. To each their own.
I read a really really great article recently about supporting the crying, not soothing it, but letting it happen while the baby knows the parent is there for them. They have big emotions and sometimes just need to cry, totally understand that. What I can't do is let my guy be alone while he does this. We've been working on it and lately as soon as Devon hears me say, "I'm here with you, tell me about it', he stops crying and just looks around. Not exactly what the article was about, but its been calming for all of us.
http://www.handinhandparenting.org/news/49/64/Helping-Young-Children-Sleep
I love the thought of a bedtime routine; that's part of our problem, Devon just doesn't 'know' when its bedtime.
Kiley, do what you need to do. If that involves letting Miles cry for however long, then that is what it takes. More love, less guilt!0 -
Thanks guys. If I continue with the crying, I really would want to be in there with him, I hated leaving him, but like I said it just seemed to make it way worse! It used to help when I would rub his back or head, he would settle, now it just makes him more mad I'm not picking him up. Maybe it's not for me, I still feel kind of bad about it, but I know I need to decide and be consistend. Tonight I'm going to try some cuddling and a book after he eats to see if that helps.0
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Thanks for all the advice. Since I really did feel bad yesterday after the fact. Tonight I started bedtime at 9:30 because he didn't seem very sleepy. I changed him, put on pj's, milk, read a book to him, and then cuddled for a few minutes. I put him in his crib and told him good-night and I loved him. He cried, but this time I stayed in there with the door cracked so he could see me and rubbed his back. I think him seeing me helped, the night before it was completely dark. He cried but it was not too serious and was on and off. This only took about 20 minutes and he fell asleep pretty much standing!! He then sat down then kind of fell over face forward and that's how he wanted to sleep, lol. I'm hoping this works and we can slowly move bedtime a little earlier. Thanks again 0
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I'm a little late to this conversation, and I hope you found something that works, but just wanted to add a tid bit for you. I was talking with my SIL last night and my niece cries when it's bed time because she's tired and gets worked up if they can't get her to bed fast enough (it's like she goes 0-60 in no time flat!). And to top it off, she HATES when mommy and daddy are in the room trying to console her and calm her down. They actually HAVE to leave the room for her to calm down and go to sleep. Crazy girl! So hopefully you're case isn't anywhere as bad as theirs. My SIL says my niece is a diva in the making LOL
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