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Prayer changes after a year

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jerber160
jerber160 Posts: 2,606 Member
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wondering how y'all feel about the changes to mass prayers, one year or so in??

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  • jerber160
    jerber160 Posts: 2,606 Member
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    'cos I'm a little irked that the past pope seemed to take a thesaurus, shake things up and retire. The new words, imo, do not improve clarity and truer, deeper meaning, and at my church songs have not been modified so the new words have annoyingly been crammed in. I can't wrap my brain around the Gloria I've said all my life.
  • cl00bie
    cl00bie Posts: 25 Member
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    The purpose of the changes was to foster a more accurate representation of theological truth. As an example. "Seen and unseen" being changed to "visibile and invisible". You are currently "unseen" to me. But not invisible. Consubstantial meaning "made of the exact same substance at the exact same time" is more accurate than "one in being". And I love the addition of the Centurion''s prayer: "Lord, I am not worthy that you should enter under my roof..."
  • jerber160
    jerber160 Posts: 2,606 Member
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    I dunno. unseen, invisible...i AM invisible to you but you are not unaware of me.. it's not the same.
  • cl00bie
    cl00bie Posts: 25 Member
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    I dunno. unseen, invisible...i AM invisible to you but you are not unaware of me.. it's not the same.

    Actually, no. If I had the ability to see you (ie. you were in the same room with me and not hidden) but I was not blind but still couldn't see you, you would be invisible).

    You really aren't claiming to be invisible are you? (Though I agree you are unseen.)

    This is to draw your attention to the supernatural. I disapproved of the "dumbing down" of the liturgy during the second revision. The third revision is much more theologically accurate, and much more poetic.
  • jerber160
    jerber160 Posts: 2,606 Member
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    I dunno. unseen, invisible...i AM invisible to you but you are not unaware of me.. it's not the same.

    Actually, no. If I had the ability to see you (ie. you were in the same room with me and not hidden) but I was not blind but still couldn't see you, you would be invisible).

    You really aren't claiming to be invisible are you? (Though I agree you are unseen.)

    This is to draw your attention to the supernatural. I disapproved of the "dumbing down" of the liturgy during the second revision. The third revision is much more theologically accurate, and much more poetic.
    those are the kind of answers I'm hoping for. but I still think this example is nit-picky... and I'm not sure how it points more toward the supernatural.wind cant be seen but it's effects affect a response, whether by spooky sounds through leaves...raising the hair off your brow... then there's the 'visible to the naked eye..." which will lead to how many molecules/angels fit on the head of pin.... and I also think One in Being is much more poetic than Consubstantial... I mean that sounds like scientific wonkery to me. like someone needed a new word and went out of their way with a thesaurus.
  • _KrisMarie_
    _KrisMarie_ Posts: 146
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    I had left the Church for about a year right when they were introducing the changes at Mass, so I'm late to the party. At first, it was kind of annoying. In particular, I miss one version of the Gloria we used to sing; it was just a pretty song.

    However...

    Now that I've been saying/singing the new prayers, I like them. :smile: I decided a couple of weeks ago that I wasn't going to use the pew card anymore, and just figure out the prayers as I went (the Nicene Creed is the most difficult part of this, but I've almost got it!). After all, I'm sure that's how I learned them the first time around when I was younger, at least I don't remember reading from anything.

    I also agree with cl00bie (and like your profile pic!) about the Centurion's prayer. Very beautiful! And last, the "and with your spirit" is like the Spanish version, which is fairly common around here - "y con tu espiritu," which also matches the Latin translation "et cum spiritu tuo."

    I think it's like any change, just takes some getting used to, right? Remember when they changed MFP's layout a couple of weeks ago? Oh it was fun times on the boards there for while! :tongue:
  • _KrisMarie_
    _KrisMarie_ Posts: 146
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    tumblr_lzz229fcIp1rqqcoko1_250.jpg
  • cl00bie
    cl00bie Posts: 25 Member
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    I also agree with cl00bie (and like your profile pic!)

    The profile pic is how I imagine my guardian angel looks a lot of the time. :)
  • jerber160
    jerber160 Posts: 2,606 Member
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    tumblr_lzz229fcIp1rqqcoko1_250.jpg

    very cute. I like with your spirit too.. I'm not digging the new gloria..probably my favorite prayer..... it just seems to shuffle stuff around to no greater effect... and that makes it hard to PRAY. I'm too busy trying to repeat words... THAT I don't like... coming from somewhat of a theater background we tell our students to know and MEAN what they are saying... when they don't do that, it's just sounds and syllables... and therefore false.
  • AnneMarieCaroline
    AnneMarieCaroline Posts: 14
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    I love the changes to the Mass; I think they are beautiful and really deepen my prayers and love for the celebration of the Lord's Supper. I really like "Let Your Spirit come upon them like the dewfall." Beautiful way to think of the Spirit coming upon us. And I, too, love the centurion's prayer "Lord, I am not worthy that You should enter under my roof."
  • indianarose2
    indianarose2 Posts: 469 Member
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    Good discussion! I agree it can still be awkward not getting the words "right" and therefore can be a bit distracting at times. I think that maybe we need another year to make the wording "our own" and then it will be more of a prayer to those of us who haven't gotten it down yet!

    In general though I love the changes. I love that it makes me THINK again of what we are praying. I am somewhat of a purest so it also pleases me to get the translation more accurate. This is a project instigated I believe by our soon to be St. John Paul the Great and not Pope Benedict Emeritus alone.
  • abomino
    abomino Posts: 9
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    Being a member of Opus Dei within the Church, I can only say that the Mass I wish to see no longer exists at all...so I guess in the end I have no idea what I thought I was going to post here lol
  • grassette
    grassette Posts: 976 Member
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    The prayers are more scriptural, than they were before the reform. I have no objection to that because it is clearer where they originated.

    I go to Mass in French, and I go to Mass in English. The changes make the Mass closer to what we say in French.

    But the Mass that I am most attracted to is that said by the Fraternité de Jérusalem. All sung a'capella by the monks and the women monks. Vespers followed by Mass by this order really refreshes the soul.

    http://youtu.be/B9FlGTEU7OM
  • GymPoet
    GymPoet Posts: 107 Member
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    I was expecting to not like the change, then I found the new words more poetic.
    I wonder why this wasn't the English translation earlier, especially since other languages apparently have been closer to the Latin all along.
  • jerber160
    jerber160 Posts: 2,606 Member
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    I love the changes to the Mass; I think they are beautiful and really deepen my prayers and love for the celebration of the Lord's Supper. I really like "Let Your Spirit come upon them like the dewfall." Beautiful way to think of the Spirit coming upon us. And I, too, love the centurion's prayer "Lord, I am not worthy that You should enter under my roof."
    TODAY it clicked with me why I am not overly thrilled with the centurion's quote. It's because I view it as a quaint change-an effort to be sort of sweet and cerebral. More importantly, for me, it negates the intimacy of receiving into my body the body and blood of Jesus. The essence of the sacrament is the transubstantiation: Jesus' actual presence in another form and "entering under my roof' just isn't as intimate or visceral.
  • grassette
    grassette Posts: 976 Member
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    I love the changes to the Mass; I think they are beautiful and really deepen my prayers and love for the celebration of the Lord's Supper. I really like "Let Your Spirit come upon them like the dewfall." Beautiful way to think of the Spirit coming upon us. And I, too, love the centurion's prayer "Lord, I am not worthy that You should enter under my roof."
    TODAY it clicked with me why I am not overly thrilled with the centurion's quote. It's because I view it as a quaint change-an effort to be sort of sweet and cerebral. More importantly, for me, it negates the intimacy of receiving into my body the body and blood of Jesus. The essence of the sacrament is the transubstantiation: Jesus' actual presence in another form and "entering under my roof' just isn't as intimate or visceral.

    But it is more scriptural. If you are healed (aka forgiven), you can receive communion without condemnation. ( a mix of gospel and Paul).
  • jerber160
    jerber160 Posts: 2,606 Member
    Options
    I love the changes to the Mass; I think they are beautiful and really deepen my prayers and love for the celebration of the Lord's Supper. I really like "Let Your Spirit come upon them like the dewfall." Beautiful way to think of the Spirit coming upon us. And I, too, love the centurion's prayer "Lord, I am not worthy that You should enter under my roof."
    TODAY it clicked with me why I am not overly thrilled with the centurion's quote. It's because I view it as a quaint change-an effort to be sort of sweet and cerebral. More importantly, for me, it negates the intimacy of receiving into my body the body and blood of Jesus. The essence of the sacrament is the transubstantiation: Jesus' actual presence in another form and "entering under my roof' just isn't as intimate or visceral.

    But it is more scriptural. If you are healed (aka forgiven), you can receive communion without condemnation. ( a mix of gospel and Paul).
    I have to disagree on this one (surprise!) .. 'take this and eat' ... let this disintegrate, digest and enter your bloodstream, then reintegrate into every cell in your body and infuse you with ________________ (good things-fill in the blank) just isn't the same as 'sit here next to me and let's have some tea.' it's looking at life on my angle I think..
  • cl00bie
    cl00bie Posts: 25 Member
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    Being a member of Opus Dei within the Church, I can only say that the Mass I wish to see no longer exists at all...so I guess in the end I have no idea what I thought I was going to post here lol

    You don't have access to the Extrordinary Form of the Latin Rite where you live?
  • grassette
    grassette Posts: 976 Member
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    Being a member of Opus Dei within the Church, I can only say that the Mass I wish to see no longer exists at all...so I guess in the end I have no idea what I thought I was going to post here lol

    You don't have access to the Extrordinary Form of the Latin Rite where you live?

    Or, for those who love long liturgies, the Eastern Rite Catholic Mass of St John Chrysothome that lasts 3 hours.
  • jerber160
    jerber160 Posts: 2,606 Member
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    I'm guessing this will be my final thought on the subject... it's tapped out for me, I think..
    The Gloria:
    the new "and on earth peace to people of good will" seems to be exclusionary.

    I caught myself thinking the old "and peace to his people on earth" included ALL people on earth, as we are all God's creations.

    In light of the Syrian crisis, I think we all need to pray for peace everywhere, for every one, not just those who recognize our God.

    (not to mention that those we would look at as 'people of good will' are probably already peaceful.WAIT-as I type that it screams 'malarky' at me. scratch that)

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