Weekly long runs in a glycogen depleted state
MinimalistShoeAddict
Posts: 1,946 Member
My current marathon training plan maxes out with several long runs of 20 miles each. I have no plans to run further than this distance prior to my first marathon in October. Having said that, I am interested in both replicating the feeling of "hitting the wall" and conditioning my body to running in a glycogen depleted state prior to my first marathon.
I run completely fasted for up to 20km (12.4 miles) on a fairly regular basis. However, so far I have always consumed at least a small meal several hours before my weekly long runs (30km or 18.6 miles has been my longest so far). Although I definitively felt tired at the end of my run I never "hit the wall" as described by first time marathoners.
Therefore I am interested in the idea on attempting an occasional weekly long run completely fasted (at least an overnight fast of 12+ hours) in order to:
1. replicate the "hitting the wall" experience prior to marathon day
2. possibly help better adapt my body to burn fat as a fuel source in a glycogen depleted environment.
Here are a few articles referencing the idea:
http://www.runnersworld.com/running-tips/running-e
http://runnersconnect.net/running-training-articles/cience-of-bonking-and-glycogen-depletion/
http://www.naturallyengineered.com/perfecting-the-art-of-fasting-before-running/
Any thoughts on the subject?
Thanks!
I run completely fasted for up to 20km (12.4 miles) on a fairly regular basis. However, so far I have always consumed at least a small meal several hours before my weekly long runs (30km or 18.6 miles has been my longest so far). Although I definitively felt tired at the end of my run I never "hit the wall" as described by first time marathoners.
Therefore I am interested in the idea on attempting an occasional weekly long run completely fasted (at least an overnight fast of 12+ hours) in order to:
1. replicate the "hitting the wall" experience prior to marathon day
2. possibly help better adapt my body to burn fat as a fuel source in a glycogen depleted environment.
Here are a few articles referencing the idea:
http://www.runnersworld.com/running-tips/running-e
http://runnersconnect.net/running-training-articles/cience-of-bonking-and-glycogen-depletion/
http://www.naturallyengineered.com/perfecting-the-art-of-fasting-before-running/
Any thoughts on the subject?
Thanks!
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Replies
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It is said "Hitting the wall " usually happens at 20 miles. I havent hit it doing slow distance . It isnt necessarily fasted but exhausted and empty where you're legs feel like lead and mentally you are confused. I felt that after a really fast race where i had no idea what i was doing and had to be guided about and uphill on a bike when I gave it all I had....I couldn't get my legs off the bike...I just fell over.
You may need to run harder to empty out because youre body's used to the fasted state. Once you've hit it you'll know it and you'll never forget the feeling! Lol! Kinda like an epic event.
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It is said "Hitting the wall " usually happens at 20 miles. I havent hit it doing slow distance . It isnt necessarily fasted but exhausted and empty where you're legs feel like lead and mentally you are confused. I felt that after a really fast race where i had no idea what i was doing and had to be guided about and uphill on a bike when I gave it all I had....I couldn't get my legs off the bike...I just fell over.
You may need to run harder to empty out because youre body's used to the fasted state. Once you've hit it you'll know it and you'll never forget the feeling! Lol! Kinda like an epic event.
Good point about pacing, All of my "long training runs" so far have been at a slow pace.
I do have a 25k race scheduled in early September. Do you think that would be an appropriate time to run hard in a fasted state? I am willing to sacrifice my 25k race time for the cause as my marathon conditioning is more important to me.
I would love to experience "hitting the wall" at least once before October0 -
I hit the wall about mile 23 during marathons. I am carbing with GU every 30 minutes. During training I use McMillans method. I do a long at a steady state (slow) with no GUs and a small breakfast (180 calories). The next week I will do a long where I start running faster in the middle but I am using GUs on this one. It is a pretty intresting method to help your body learn to utilize your fat stores more effectively. Check it out at:
http://www.mcmillanrunning.com/articlePages/article/2
He explains it much better than I could. I am doing this to try and make the "wall" a little easier for me to handle this year.0 -
I hit the wall about mile 23 during marathons. I am carbing with GU every 30 minutes. During training I use McMillans method. I do a long at a steady state (slow) with no GUs and a small breakfast (180 calories). The next week I will do a long where I start running faster in the middle but I am using GUs on this one. It is a pretty intresting method to help your body learn to utilize your fat stores more effectively. Check it out at:
http://www.mcmillanrunning.com/articlePages/article/2
He explains it much better than I could. I am doing this to try and make the "wall" a little easier for me to handle this year.
Thank you very much! This is exactly what I was looking for. I think I will try to use your method as well!0 -
I've hit the wall once, and would never under any circumstance want to ever replicate that feeling again. I don't think there is anything to be gained by trying to do so in practice.
That said, I am a very big believer in running my long runs fasted and using little to no gels/energy replacement during those runs. Smart pacing and training your body to run w/o supplemental energy so that you can avoid hitting the wall, is FAR better than purposely trying to hit the wall so that you can "handle" it. Just my opinion0 -
Interesting!
I "hit the wall" on my first long training run for my coming first marathon (For marathon training the distance was short @ 23K). The feeling was not at all pleasant and it took me the better part of three days to recover. Everything hurt and I almost called in sick for work the next day (Monday). I also had a bit of nausea and later in the day a massive head ache.
Note that although my longest run to date, I had run 19 & 21K over the two previous Sundays along with shorter training runs during the week.
When I discussed with my coach and a running buddy who went through the same thing on the same run. We all felt that the issue was dehydration coupled with a lack of "nutrients" in my system for a "long" run. Basically, my buddy and I sweat ourselves dry by around the 15k mark.
I have since made sure that I ALWAYS have lots of water with me on long runs. (Bought a Camelpak for the following weekend's long run). I also get up a little earlier before these runs and eat. Not much! Usually a piece of fruit or a small portion of granola and almond milk. And, I have started buying the GU/BLOK "candies?" to eat while running. Starting at 20 min I eat one every 20 min +/-.
Since this run we have increased our long run distance to 32k and have our last very long run in two weeks @ 37k. I have had no problems since. In fact, ran 32 weekend before last, went home showered and then went for an afternoon bike ride! No pain, no discomfort.
As running is fitness/recreation for me, I will continue to train with lots of water and nutrients on hand! Have no desire to repeat that one bad experience!0 -
I'm all for using long slow runs to train my body to store and use glycogen more effectively, but I have never hit the wall and don't plan on doing so (well, not on purpose) any time soon. I ran my marathon with sufficient nutrition and hydration to avoid the wall; it's not like it's an inevitability you have to prep for. And there's something to be said for practicing racy hydration and nutrition, anyway, to make sure that you've got a system that works for you come race day. Just my $0.02 - Happy Running! :flowerforyou:0
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I've hit the wall once, and would never under any circumstance want to ever replicate that feeling again. I don't think there is anything to be gained by trying to do so in practice.
That said, I am a very big believer in running my long runs fasted and using little to no gels/energy replacement during those runs. Smart pacing and training your body to run w/o supplemental energy so that you can avoid hitting the wall, is FAR better than purposely trying to hit the wall so that you can "handle" it. Just my opinion
Could not have said it any better.0 -
When I discussed with my coach and a running buddy who went through the same thing on the same run. We all felt that the issue was dehydration coupled with a lack of "nutrients" in my system for a "long" run. Basically, my buddy and I sweat ourselves dry by around the 15k mark.
I have since made sure that I ALWAYS have lots of water with me on long runs.
It is highly unlikely that what you experienced was because of lack of hydration. If you "hit the wall", then you more than likely depleted your glycogen stores, which means that either you didn't eat enough carbs in the days before the run, or you did the run too fast.
Hydration happens in the days and weeks prior to a run. In a run that last 3 hours or less, you aren't going to noticeably change your level of hydration. It's not uncommon to lose 6% to 8% of body weight in fluids. The human body is plenty smart enough to know how to re-hydrate itself when you are finished.0
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