Speed training - looking for comparisons
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KathleenMurry
Posts: 448 Member
Hey y'All!
I want to get a feel for what people are doing for speed training. I bet there are a lot of ways to tackle this. I'm doing what my coach has instructed me to do, but other ideas and opinions are always interesting to me.
Right now, my 5 KM time is just over 25 minutes. It's not very fast, but considering I only started running this year and I've improved my time 10 minutes in 4 months...feels not bad! My goal for a November race is to hit 22:49. I would like to hit 20 minutes in early 2014. I know it will be hard work, and hard work is what I'm putting in.
Every Tuesday I do my speed work on the treadmill so it's more controlled. I have a hard time keeping track of my pace and time on the road and my body naturally wants to slow down after 20 seconds. The treadmill forces me to keep pace. I do 5 reps of 9 mph for 45 seconds each with a base pace of 6 mph. I do about a 2:30 recovery between reps and then finish off the session with a 20 minute easy jog. After that, I'll do some quick steps on the bosu, box jumps, calisthenics and light weights. That's what I would call my "speed workout night".
What do you guys do? Do you try to keep a certain pace for a certain distance or certain time? What's your max pace? Do you increase intensity by going longer or going faster? When do you know it's time to increase the intensity? Hills?
I had all these burning questions today and then my coach cancelled our session due to illness. So I'm springing them all on you guys!!
Any responses are appreciated
I want to get a feel for what people are doing for speed training. I bet there are a lot of ways to tackle this. I'm doing what my coach has instructed me to do, but other ideas and opinions are always interesting to me.
Right now, my 5 KM time is just over 25 minutes. It's not very fast, but considering I only started running this year and I've improved my time 10 minutes in 4 months...feels not bad! My goal for a November race is to hit 22:49. I would like to hit 20 minutes in early 2014. I know it will be hard work, and hard work is what I'm putting in.
Every Tuesday I do my speed work on the treadmill so it's more controlled. I have a hard time keeping track of my pace and time on the road and my body naturally wants to slow down after 20 seconds. The treadmill forces me to keep pace. I do 5 reps of 9 mph for 45 seconds each with a base pace of 6 mph. I do about a 2:30 recovery between reps and then finish off the session with a 20 minute easy jog. After that, I'll do some quick steps on the bosu, box jumps, calisthenics and light weights. That's what I would call my "speed workout night".
What do you guys do? Do you try to keep a certain pace for a certain distance or certain time? What's your max pace? Do you increase intensity by going longer or going faster? When do you know it's time to increase the intensity? Hills?
I had all these burning questions today and then my coach cancelled our session due to illness. So I'm springing them all on you guys!!
Any responses are appreciated
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Replies
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This is what I started doing recently:
http://www.runnersworld.com/race-training/yasso-800s
I do this workout on a 400m track with a stopwatch.
Its still too early for me to evaluate its impact but it is a lot of fun!
All of my race times are posted in my profile. I started running about the same time you did (a little less than a year ago) and have a similar speed goal for the 5k. Right now however most of my time is focused on preparing for my first marathon.
I enjoy speed training and am eager to see how some of the more experienced runners respond!0 -
Ladders: 400m 800m 1200m 1200m 800m 400m . So my track coach had me at 2:05 for 400, 4:10 for 800 and 6:15 for 1200 and I am about a 30 min 5k on a really good day. So for you maybe 1:50 for the 400 twice that for the 800 and 3x that for the 1200. Rest for the amount of time you ran. So run the 400 in 1:50 rest for 1:50, run the 800 in 3:15ish rest for 3:15ish. etc.0
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I think that it's important to ask the question in a more broad sense. If you are training for a 5K, then the question should be "What type of training are you doing to improve at the 5K distance" and invariably in those responses you will get some information about speed work. The reason for this is that there is a lot more to improving at 5K than having the right speed workout. To get the best results, I believe you need to have two components, a phased approach and specificity.
Let's start at the beginning. At some point you ran that 25 minute 5K. You had some fitness from running at that point and you make a decision that you want to get faster. This is where you need to setup the phases of your training which all culminate with a goal race (or season of races). So, you would want to setup these 4 phases.
1. Base
2. Strength/Early quality
3. Race specific quality
4. Sharpening / racing phase (the latter if you are planning a season of races)
So, I'll skim the first two.
You need to have a base of easy running. This phase can last for 4 to umpteen weeks. It should include a tempo run of 20 to 40 minutes each week and some strides once a week.
In the second phase, you may do some hill repeats to strengthen the running muscles and start to transition from the tempo to more race specific training.
Phase 3 is where you will get into the speed work that you are asking about. It is suggested that most runners only do 2 to maybe 3 quality sessions per week. I think for you that two is probably the right number. This phase is where the specificity comes in. If you are going to be training for a 5K, then you need to run some at 5K pace. This spring I was training specifically for 5K and mile races. I did a lot of 400m repeats with equal recovery. I did some 800m repeats with 400m recovery. I did 200m repeats with 200m recovery. The shorter the repeat, the faster the pace. I also incorporated fartleks with 1:00 repeats that were faster than 5K pace. During this phase, my mileage dropped to the mid 40s to mid 50s (I'm typically in the mid 50s and up). The long run topped out at 12 or 13 miles and I did tempo run almost every week, but it was classic Daniels tempo, 20 minutes at LT pace during an easy run.
The last phase is just to allow you to rest some while keeping the speed in your legs. You'll do many of the same types of workouts, but instead of doing 8x400m, you might do 2 or 3. The quality will still be there, but the volume is reduced.
If you want to see specifics of my workouts, you can look at the months of April and May in my log. Hover over each entry and you'll see the specifics in the notes section of each workout. Here is a link to April. Hope this helps.
http://www.runningahead.com/logs/f395f426a792443989cc9b545ae45445/calendar/2013/40 -
I think that it's important to ask the question in a more broad sense. If you are training for a 5K, then the question should be "What type of training are you doing to improve at the 5K distance" and invariably in those responses you will get some information about speed work. The reason for this is that there is a lot more to improving at 5K than having the right speed workout. To get the best results, I believe you need to have two components, a phased approach and specificity.
Let's start at the beginning. At some point you ran that 25 minute 5K. You had some fitness from running at that point and you make a decision that you want to get faster. This is where you need to setup the phases of your training which all culminate with a goal race (or season of races). So, you would want to setup these 4 phases.
1. Base
2. Strength/Early quality
3. Race specific quality
4. Sharpening / racing phase (the latter if you are planning a season of races)
So, I'll skim the first two.
You need to have a base of easy running. This phase can last for 4 to umpteen weeks. It should include a tempo run of 20 to 40 minutes each week and some strides once a week.
In the second phase, you may do some hill repeats to strengthen the running muscles and start to transition from the tempo to more race specific training.
Phase 3 is where you will get into the speed work that you are asking about. It is suggested that most runners only do 2 to maybe 3 quality sessions per week. I think for you that two is probably the right number. This phase is where the specificity comes in. If you are going to be training for a 5K, then you need to run some at 5K pace. This spring I was training specifically for 5K and mile races. I did a lot of 400m repeats with equal recovery. I did some 800m repeats with 400m recovery. I did 200m repeats with 200m recovery. The shorter the repeat, the faster the pace. I also incorporated fartleks with 1:00 repeats that were faster than 5K pace. During this phase, my mileage dropped to the mid 40s to mid 50s (I'm typically in the mid 50s and up). The long run topped out at 12 or 13 miles and I did tempo run almost every week, but it was classic Daniels tempo, 20 minutes at LT pace during an easy run.
The last phase is just to allow you to rest some while keeping the speed in your legs. You'll do many of the same types of workouts, but instead of doing 8x400m, you might do 2 or 3. The quality will still be there, but the volume is reduced.
If you want to see specifics of my workouts, you can look at the months of April and May in my log. Hover over each entry and you'll see the specifics in the notes section of each workout. Here is a link to April. Hope this helps.
http://www.runningahead.com/logs/f395f426a792443989cc9b545ae45445/calendar/2013/4
Carson, so glad you chimed in. Thanks for taking the time to write your response. I'm going to see if I can fit some of your suggestions in with what I'm doing!0 -
Its may be a bit unconventional but I have noticed a pretty significant increase in speed over the past month after adding road biking into my schedule. I ride long rides (minimum 20 miles, max 72) with a group of guys two or three days a week. They are training for a century ride so we rotate distance and hills each week. I have set three or four PR's for running in the past two weeks and see improvements each time I go running.0
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Its may be a bit unconventional but I have noticed a pretty significant increase in speed over the past month after adding road biking into my schedule. I ride long rides (minimum 20 miles, max 72) with a group of guys two or three days a week. They are training for a century ride so we rotate distance and hills each week. I have set three or four PR's for running in the past two weeks and see improvements each time I go running.
I second this. While the results may or may not be as effective as feet speedwork, I have noticed gains. However, my fitness goals are directly tied to bike performance as well as a run, but I do more running events in the season so I work it in there how I can.0 -
I would consider adding road biking to my routine if I had perfect form. I feel like I'm still at a stage where my running will only improve with more running. I try to bike once a week on my "rest day" but that's it. I'm afraid if I biked more than that, I wouldn't have enough gas in the tank to put in a full training run with good form. If that makes sense?
As I get better and my fitness level increases, I will definitely be more interested in this.0 -
I would consider adding road biking to my routine if I had perfect form. I feel like I'm still at a stage where my running will only improve with more running. I try to bike once a week on my "rest day" but that's it. I'm afraid if I biked more than that, I wouldn't have enough gas in the tank to put in a full training run with good form. If that makes sense?
As I get better and my fitness level increases, I will definitely be more interested in this.
Running is the best way to go to improve running. However, I'll talk you into doing triathlon soon - don't worry 0 -
I think this is an axiom that is going to apply regardless of how you go about it. Bikers call it TITS (Time In The Seat) and it applies to runners just as equally.I would consider adding road biking to my routine if I had perfect form. I feel like I'm still at a stage where my running will only improve with more running.
I thought the same way and looked at biking as a rest day exercise. If you can find the right group of riders its a really good all around exercise. Hills work your glutes exceptionally well, using cleats works your hams, speed works just about every muscle in your legs, and riding in 'the drops' (holding on to the lower part of the handle bar loops to make yourself aero) works your core.I try to bike once a week on my "rest day" but that's it. I'm afraid if I biked more than that, I wouldn't have enough gas in the tank to put in a full training run with good form. If that makes sense?
I rode last night and did really well (broke my PR for 10 miles by 37s). I was keeping up with the really fast guys and out of 117 riders I was probably 20th +/- to finish. I ran this morning and beat my PR for a 10k by five minutes (there are some caveats to that, though).
Once you head into the distances and times we are talking about it really starts to come down to nutrition and repetition more than anything. Form is always a factor but you will never get perfect form. I have read that most of the really long distance runners spend a fair amount of their runs just focusing on their form.
If it helps here is my schedule.
M - Rest
T - 20-25 speed bike ride
W - 5 mile run
Th - 500-1000m swim
F - 5 mile run
S - Long run, PR so far is 10 miles (goal is a half marathon in November)
Sun - Long bike ride, 40 miles hills or 70 miles distance (as I said earlier we rotate)0 -
I think this is an axiom that is going to apply regardless of how you go about it. Bikers call it TITS (Time In The Seat) and it applies to runners just as equally.I would consider adding road biking to my routine if I had perfect form. I feel like I'm still at a stage where my running will only improve with more running.
I thought the same way and looked at biking as a rest day exercise. If you can find the right group of riders its a really good all around exercise. Hills work your glutes exceptionally well, using cleats works your hams, speed works just about every muscle in your legs, and riding in 'the drops' (holding on to the lower part of the handle bar loops to make yourself aero) works your core.I try to bike once a week on my "rest day" but that's it. I'm afraid if I biked more than that, I wouldn't have enough gas in the tank to put in a full training run with good form. If that makes sense?
I rode last night and did really well (broke my PR for 10 miles by 37s). I was keeping up with the really fast guys and out of 117 riders I was probably 20th +/- to finish. I ran this morning and beat my PR for a 10k by five minutes (there are some caveats to that, though).
Once you head into the distances and times we are talking about it really starts to come down to nutrition and repetition more than anything. Form is always a factor but you will never get perfect form. I have read that most of the really long distance runners spend a fair amount of their runs just focusing on their form.
If it helps here is my schedule.
M - Rest
T - 20-25 speed bike ride
W - 5 mile run
Th - 500-1000m swim
F - 5 mile run
S - Long run, PR so far is 10 miles (goal is a half marathon in November)
Sun - Long bike ride, 40 miles hills or 70 miles distance (as I said earlier we rotate)
I'm a little confused as to what you're advocating here. If all she's interested in is getting faster running she needs to be running. There is matter of sport specificity at work here. Yes, you can have general aerobic fitness transfer from the bike to the run, but the most efficient way to go about running faster isn't to get on a bike.0 -
I'm a little confused as to what you're advocating here. If all she's interested in is getting faster running she needs to be running. There is matter of sport specificity at work here. Yes, you can have general aerobic fitness transfer from the bike to the run, but the most efficient way to go about running faster isn't to get on a bike.
Agreed. I was offering my own experience and observation. Biking has made me faster. Is it likely because of the increased cardio? Almost certainly. But I was able to increase my cardio days without taxing my joints.0 -
Oh and my opinion is that a periodized program like the one Carson outlined is the way to go. I like to schedule in 3-5 week blocks with a recover week every 4-5 weeks.0
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I'm a little confused as to what you're advocating here. If all she's interested in is getting faster running she needs to be running. There is matter of sport specificity at work here. Yes, you can have general aerobic fitness transfer from the bike to the run, but the most efficient way to go about running faster isn't to get on a bike.
Agreed. I was offering my own experience and observation. Biking has made me faster. Is it likely because of the increased cardio? Almost certainly. But I was able to increase my cardio days without taxing my joints.
It's likely that you're general fitness level is coming up and that you've been more consistent in your training. In general consistency will lead to a bigger base of aerobic fitness, a bigger base of fitness will make the speed or strength work more effective, so on and so forth.0 -
the one best thing that helped me get faster at running is improving my form.
I looked at POSE method and then I also try to run with a higher cadence (around 90 per minute per foot, though right now I'm more around 85/87)
my goal is a 40 minute 10k by december and under 1h40 half marathon this winter.
(training for a marathon in november at the moment)
I heard a lot of good things about yasso, though one of the things that makes sense to me is to try yourself at shorter distance.
let me explain, to run a 5k in 20 minutes you need to run 1k in 3:50 at best (the longer the run the slower you get)
So do not always run 5k, as you also need to learn what running 1k at sub 4 looks and feels like (again form might be of importance for that as well)0 -
also regarding biking to help running, biking at a higher cadence than you running pace cadence help you increasing the running cadence just by again knowing what it feels like.0
