No such thing as a Free (fast-food) Lunch
Azdak
Posts: 8,281 Member
This is kind of an ancillary topic to the "$15 for McDonald's Workers" topic that was discussed recently. I wanted to start a new one because I have a different focus, in which the idea of minimum wages is only one part of the discussion. I want to challenge some of the accepted notions about the American economic framework, because I think that times have changed in ways that many people do not realize.
As Americans, we have a shared belief in a type of "free market capitalism". I'm not sure people really know what that means, but we think we do and that drives a lot of our attitudes. There is a general sense that "What's good for (insert corporate name here) is good for the country". As long as businesses are successful and profitable, the "rising tide" will enable everyone to benefit. Unless obviously criminal, business actions are usually accepted as being part of the pursuit of capitalist profit, and the rewards are accepted as a byproduct of capitalist success.
However, since at least 1980, our tax and national economic policies have overwhelmingly favored business and the wealthy, and the power and influence of both large corporations and the richest members of society has increased disproportionately--to the point where corporations can "rig" the game in their favor.
And here is where the fast-food industry will be used as one--but certainly not the only--example.
A recent report from the University of California-Berkeley Labor Center stated that, due to a combination of low wages and benefits, "many of the families of fast-food workers must rely on taxpayer-funded safety net programs to make ends meet." The median pay for front-line fast food jobs is $8.69/hr, with many jobs paying the minimum wage. An estimated 87 percent do not receive health care benefits through their employer.
52 percent of the families of front-line fast food workers are enrolled in one or more public programs.
The cost of public assistance--Medicaid, CHIP, food stamps, earned income tax credits--amounts to $7 billion per year. That cost does NOT include other forms of public assistance such as child-care subsidies and reduced price school lunches.
(http://laborcenter.berkeley.edu/publiccosts/fast_food_poverty_wages.pdf)
The companies who benefit from that low-cost labor earned $7.44 billion in profits last year and paid their top executives $52.7 million.
(http://www.nelp.org/page/-/rtmw/uploads/NELP-Super-Sizing-Public-Costs-Fast-Food-Report.pdf?nocdn=1)
The list includes the names you would expect: McDonald's, Burger King, Taco Bell.
The idea of this post is not to demonize the corporations. They are playing by the rules (although they are the rules that they helped set up by buying enough public officials).
I am making the point that we have gradually seen a change in the business structure of this country where large corporations--who hate "free markets" as much as any far-left socialist--can follow a practice of privatizing profit and socializing risk.
One argument against the idea of a "living wage" law is that the low wages in the fast-food industry are "market driven" -- that they are a natural result of the competitive forces faced by these businesses and any attempt to increase them would unfairly harm those businesses.
These figures suggest that is a false argument. The fact is that the low cost of fast-food labor--and thus a large portion of company profits--is actually subsidized by taxpayers.
And the fast-food industry is not the only one who enjoys this amount of public subsidy. Another study earlier this year estimated that the average WalMart store generates a significant increase in social support funds needed in the communities in which they are located.
I am not saying this justifies a "living wage" law. I am more interested in changing the cliches that usually make up these discussions. We need to get away from the idea that corporations are always the "makers" and workers are suspiciously viewed as "takers". That workers who ask for a larger share of the rewards that their labors make possible -- wages, benefits, etc --are generally viewed as selfish and greedy, while huge corporate profits, salaries, and benefits are considered "justified" because of "the market" and because of "meritocracy".
We need to take a broader view of "welfare" and "entitlements" and expand that discussion to include corporate subsidies and various ways in which corporations are allowed to control market forces so that they can't lose. We need to recognize that taxpayers pay a substantial amount in taxes to subsidize corporate profits and executive salaries, so it is fair to question those practices without being accused of being "anti business" or "socialist".
As Americans, we have a shared belief in a type of "free market capitalism". I'm not sure people really know what that means, but we think we do and that drives a lot of our attitudes. There is a general sense that "What's good for (insert corporate name here) is good for the country". As long as businesses are successful and profitable, the "rising tide" will enable everyone to benefit. Unless obviously criminal, business actions are usually accepted as being part of the pursuit of capitalist profit, and the rewards are accepted as a byproduct of capitalist success.
However, since at least 1980, our tax and national economic policies have overwhelmingly favored business and the wealthy, and the power and influence of both large corporations and the richest members of society has increased disproportionately--to the point where corporations can "rig" the game in their favor.
And here is where the fast-food industry will be used as one--but certainly not the only--example.
A recent report from the University of California-Berkeley Labor Center stated that, due to a combination of low wages and benefits, "many of the families of fast-food workers must rely on taxpayer-funded safety net programs to make ends meet." The median pay for front-line fast food jobs is $8.69/hr, with many jobs paying the minimum wage. An estimated 87 percent do not receive health care benefits through their employer.
52 percent of the families of front-line fast food workers are enrolled in one or more public programs.
The cost of public assistance--Medicaid, CHIP, food stamps, earned income tax credits--amounts to $7 billion per year. That cost does NOT include other forms of public assistance such as child-care subsidies and reduced price school lunches.
(http://laborcenter.berkeley.edu/publiccosts/fast_food_poverty_wages.pdf)
The companies who benefit from that low-cost labor earned $7.44 billion in profits last year and paid their top executives $52.7 million.
(http://www.nelp.org/page/-/rtmw/uploads/NELP-Super-Sizing-Public-Costs-Fast-Food-Report.pdf?nocdn=1)
The list includes the names you would expect: McDonald's, Burger King, Taco Bell.
The idea of this post is not to demonize the corporations. They are playing by the rules (although they are the rules that they helped set up by buying enough public officials).
I am making the point that we have gradually seen a change in the business structure of this country where large corporations--who hate "free markets" as much as any far-left socialist--can follow a practice of privatizing profit and socializing risk.
One argument against the idea of a "living wage" law is that the low wages in the fast-food industry are "market driven" -- that they are a natural result of the competitive forces faced by these businesses and any attempt to increase them would unfairly harm those businesses.
These figures suggest that is a false argument. The fact is that the low cost of fast-food labor--and thus a large portion of company profits--is actually subsidized by taxpayers.
And the fast-food industry is not the only one who enjoys this amount of public subsidy. Another study earlier this year estimated that the average WalMart store generates a significant increase in social support funds needed in the communities in which they are located.
I am not saying this justifies a "living wage" law. I am more interested in changing the cliches that usually make up these discussions. We need to get away from the idea that corporations are always the "makers" and workers are suspiciously viewed as "takers". That workers who ask for a larger share of the rewards that their labors make possible -- wages, benefits, etc --are generally viewed as selfish and greedy, while huge corporate profits, salaries, and benefits are considered "justified" because of "the market" and because of "meritocracy".
We need to take a broader view of "welfare" and "entitlements" and expand that discussion to include corporate subsidies and various ways in which corporations are allowed to control market forces so that they can't lose. We need to recognize that taxpayers pay a substantial amount in taxes to subsidize corporate profits and executive salaries, so it is fair to question those practices without being accused of being "anti business" or "socialist".
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Food for thought.0
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Food for thought.
Fast food? :laugh:0 -
Very interesting and well-considered argument.
How much of this do you think this comes down to public demand? We love cheap fast food and Walmart. We love cheap clothes and iphones made overseas in working conditions we'd prefer not to think about. As long as the public demand for these services and products is there, I don't see any impetus to change the corporate model. If it were to change, consumer values may be a more likley route, as personal greed on the CEO level is not going to change.
Obviously the ability of companies and industries to buy public policy via political donations and the like is a huge problem.0 -
Very interesting and well-considered argument.
How much of this do you think this comes down to public demand? We love cheap fast food and Walmart. We love cheap clothes and iphones made overseas in working conditions we'd prefer not to think about. As long as the public demand for these services and products is there, I don't see any impetus to change the corporate model. If it were to change, consumer values may be a more likley route, as personal greed on the CEO level is not going to change.
Obviously the ability of companies and industries to buy public policy via political donations and the like is a huge problem.
Obviously, it is in everyone's self-interest to pay as little as possible. And within an industry, yes, there are competitive pressures to keep prices low. Even though it is estimated that raising the minimum wage to $12 per hour would only cost McDonalds about 40 cents extra per Big Mac, it is unrealistic to expect any company to unilaterally increase their wages out of some sense of altruism.
Those who favor an increased minimum wage or a "living wage" assert that this a proper role of government--to force everyone to swallow the same medicine, so to speak, so that a competitive balance is maintained. However, as others have argued, just increasing minimum wage doesn't necessarily decrease profits--it can pass on the cost so that rich and poor alike are hit.
These are all valid points of discussion. But they tend to get obscured in the clamor of parroted talking points and silly accusations of "socialism".0 -
Obviously, it is in everyone's self-interest to pay as little as possible.
Yes, but I'd argue that it is also in my personal interest, when I can afford to pay more, to support companies that do not exploit their workers (or environemntal resources/lab animals/insert your cause here). Basically, it's in my interest because it makes me feel like a good person, and I think that's valuable to people. Financial self-interest doesn't have to be the whole of it.
88% of American households donate to charity* -- what does that get them besides personal satisfaction?
How is minimum wage set and what is is based on? One might have thought it was set according to the minimum amount one would need to be self-supporting. If not, then what?
I also want to know why I am suddenly getting banner ads for Hillary's election campaign.
I love Mitt Romney! (just testing)
*http://www.nptrust.org/philanthropic-resources/charitable-giving-statistics0 -
I might consider this argument if I thought we had a capitalist economy at all... but we haven't, not really, for decades.... as long as congress is protecting businesses and vice versa that is not a capitalist economy at all... I don't see how we can apply capitalist principles in any respect when that is not what we have had for decades.0
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I would love nothing more than even everyone in the workforce being paid a living wage, but until we can quit running up debt and deficits it will always be a band aid because we won't solve the problem of inflation. Our current economy has the rich now owning more wealth than ever before even when adjusted for inflation, completely outrunning inflation, while the middle and lower class wages have gone stagnant. We need welfare reform that focuses on not just sustaining people but finding them work, higher taxes on people who outsource jobs to third world countries and commies (the Mitt Romneys of the world) and to finally declare victory against the USSR and lessen our defense spending. Maybe once we have done those things, our dollar might bounce back a little and our money might be worth something, earning the little guy some buying power. Who knows, it might work. Then again, spending trillions of dollars chasing a few thousand goat herders around the middle east is probably more sensible.0
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^^but people have work. These workplaces are not paying a living wage and therefore these people are required to go to the govt for assistance, costing more. If they had a wage that allowed them to live, this would reduce welfare.
Did you even read the OP?0 -
^^but people have work. These workplaces are not paying a living wage and therefore these people are required to go to the govt for assistance, costing more. If they had a wage that allowed them to live, this would reduce welfare.
Did you even read the OP?
To whom were you referring?0 -
^^but people have work. These workplaces are not paying a living wage and therefore these people are required to go to the govt for assistance, costing more. If they had a wage that allowed them to live, this would reduce welfare.
Did you even read the OP?
In theory, but, that isn't totally how it works. Corporate isn't the one paying most of these wages. The owners of the restaurants have to pay fees to corporate and make enough of a profit after that to pay their employees. Prices will go up because the owners need to make enough money to pay them selves (these aren't the guys getting rich). They won't be able to significantly increase wages of their workers, and because of inflation, the new $15 wage (or 20 or 30) pays for less and less until those workers are back on financial assistance because that amount no longer is high enough. What needs to be fixed is how public companies are allowed to run, trade and profit share amongst shareholders. The shareholders shouldn't be more important than the employees. The shareholders shouldn't expect more of a payout from the companies than the employees do.0 -
I feel like the arguments you made aren't any different than the other thread. You just seem to hope to remove the demonization of capitalism from the discussion which I'm certain will find its way back into the discussion regardless. I don't feel the need to reiterate my same arguments from the previous thread, but I do want to point one thing out that only got touched on in the other thread.
What business trends surfaced around 1980 and continue to be prevalent in modern business? Globalization and outsourcing. Tax breaks were created to keep companies from leaving the US for cheaper labor, thus, protecting jobs. It's easy to say that companies should just "do this" or just "do that" because its what is right for everyone, but companies have to do what keeps them competitive or they just fail, and then nobody gets to benefit from them. Following business trends is what keeps companies competitive. Governments seeking to support economy for the sake of its citizens should look to manipulating business trends, instead of imposing regulation.
Has anyone in this group read Atlas Shrugged??0