Failure
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FromHereOnOut
Posts: 3,237 Member
I never thought I'd be eager to talk about "failure" :laugh: , but since failure IS part of the process, I have some newbie curiosity (hopefully my last questions for awhile...I think I finally found the right gym and will begin soon. eeee!)
So, failure. What's that like? The deadlift and rows seem simple enough (stop/drop the weight). But since the gym doesn't have a power rack, I'm a little concerned about bench press, and of course the overhead press (not sure having all that heavy metal over my head is a time I really want to be "failing"!!) I mean, what does "failing a rep" mean? Like in BP, you can't get the weight up, but then how can you rack it? You get squished?!?! Obviously I'll be needing a spotter at first, but will I be needing a spotter *always*? And I seem to have the least strength on negatives, so that really worries me with BP and OHP. What if I can hold it at a locked position, but my strength gives out going in the other direction? :indifferent: Also, do any of you NOT use locks/collars, so you can let the weight slide off, if necessary? I don't think the gym would allow that, but IDK, but it seems smthg ppl might do lifting alone--just curious, trying to learn.
The other part of the question is how to address failure in the program. So, if you can get 3 or 4 reps, then that was your set, you rest and try another set, right? But what if you can't even get 3 with the new weight? Mehdi says to deload after 3 failures...does that mean experiencing a failure across 3 workouts, or does it mean 3 failures in a single workout? If I've added 5lbs and can't even do 3 reps in the first set, obviously I have to deload, right? I don't continue attempting my sets to see if I can improve from that, or do I?
Thank you. Sorry if the questions seem silly. I haven't started yet, and maybe it's obvious when you "get in there", but I'm still trying to learn as much as possible before entering the lion's den.
So, failure. What's that like? The deadlift and rows seem simple enough (stop/drop the weight). But since the gym doesn't have a power rack, I'm a little concerned about bench press, and of course the overhead press (not sure having all that heavy metal over my head is a time I really want to be "failing"!!) I mean, what does "failing a rep" mean? Like in BP, you can't get the weight up, but then how can you rack it? You get squished?!?! Obviously I'll be needing a spotter at first, but will I be needing a spotter *always*? And I seem to have the least strength on negatives, so that really worries me with BP and OHP. What if I can hold it at a locked position, but my strength gives out going in the other direction? :indifferent: Also, do any of you NOT use locks/collars, so you can let the weight slide off, if necessary? I don't think the gym would allow that, but IDK, but it seems smthg ppl might do lifting alone--just curious, trying to learn.
The other part of the question is how to address failure in the program. So, if you can get 3 or 4 reps, then that was your set, you rest and try another set, right? But what if you can't even get 3 with the new weight? Mehdi says to deload after 3 failures...does that mean experiencing a failure across 3 workouts, or does it mean 3 failures in a single workout? If I've added 5lbs and can't even do 3 reps in the first set, obviously I have to deload, right? I don't continue attempting my sets to see if I can improve from that, or do I?
Thank you. Sorry if the questions seem silly. I haven't started yet, and maybe it's obvious when you "get in there", but I'm still trying to learn as much as possible before entering the lion's den.
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I'm confused about this, also.0
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Failure fun fun fun without a spotter.
For me Failure is when you cannot get the rep up (IE Squat when you can't stand back up, Bench when you can't push is up, OHP when you can't push it up over your head, DL when you can't stand up, Rows when the bar doesn't come up to chest). It is not a failure if you got the rep up and hold it and "drop it on the way down to rest" (well maybe for a bench cause that would hurt)
Failure sucks with no spotter. My first one was with squats...I kind of knew it was gonna happen so I hadn't collared the weights (I work out at home) and I let them slide it was awful. The other side came crashing to the floor too...hehe
My failure on Benching (couldn't get it back up) I rolled it down my chest, belly to my legs and sat up.
As for the OHP if you have it up over your head I can't see your arms giving out if you are in the lock position.
If you lose it on the way down (OHP) most gyms I would think have foam so if you do "have to" drop it wont cause to much of a stir.
As for the failures it is per workout not set. For example last night I was rowing 110lbs, got first set in all reps then only managed 4 reps for the next 4 sets...1st Failure...I suspect on Wednesday of next week I will fail on the last 2 sets.....2nd failure and if I fail on the next row workout that is 3 failures....time to deload.0 -
Congrats on starting soon! I'm sure someone who knows better than I do will chime in on exactly how Mehdi says to handle the failures in the program. I sort of do my own thing, and if I fail (don't get all 5 sets and 5 reps) for 3 workouts in a row on that particular exercise, I de-load.
But about your spotter question, yes you always want a spotter on the bench press - especially if you are trying a new weight for the first time. My gym always has someone on the floor who can come spot, or a person just nearby that can spot you especially when you are trying a new weight for the first time.
I never use collars but that's just because I'm lazy. The weights at my gym are so hard to get on and off anyway, they aren't going to accidentally slide off.
Good luck!!0 -
So, failure. What's that like? The deadlift and rows seem simple enough (stop/drop the weight). But since the gym doesn't have a power rack, I'm a little concerned about bench press, and of course the overhead press (not sure having all that heavy metal over my head is a time I really want to be "failing"!!) I mean, what does "failing a rep" mean? Like in BP, you can't get the weight up, but then how can you rack it? You get squished?!?! Obviously I'll be needing a spotter at first, but will I be needing a spotter *always*? And I seem to have the least strength on negatives, so that really worries me with BP and OHP. What if I can hold it at a locked position, but my strength gives out going in the other direction? :indifferent: Also, do any of you NOT use locks/collars, so you can let the weight slide off, if necessary? I don't think the gym would allow that, but IDK, but it seems smthg ppl might do lifting alone--just curious, trying to learn.
First of all dealing with failures is something you will realise when you actually fail, for the OHP you will more likely fail trying to raise it from your chest rather than it being overhead. When its overhead and feeling too heavy push your head back and drop it back down to your chest and take a few breaths to regain composure and try again, if it then doesn't go up control it at your chest an re-rack and rest 5 mins and try for the next set.
For the bench, if the bench you are using doesn't have guard rails then ask for a spot. If there is no one to spot then its the 'roll of shame' Control the bar on your chest (the bar should never be over your head) and roll the bar down to your hips sit up and then either lift the bar up and re-rack or roll it off your legs and dump it to the floor.The other part of the question is how to address failure in the program. So, if you can get 3 or 4 reps, then that was your set, you rest and try another set, right? But what if you can't even get 3 with the new weight? Mehdi says to deload after 3 failures...does that mean experiencing a failure across 3 workouts, or does it mean 3 failures in a single workout? If I've added 5lbs and can't even do 3 reps in the first set, obviously I have to deload, right? I don't continue attempting my sets to see if I can improve from that, or do I?
Try each set and it you fail then rest 5 mins and try the next set so for OHP you might get 4,3,3,2,2 then you keep the weight the same for the next workout. In that workout you might get 5,4,4,3,3 so keep the weight the same for the next workout. When you come to the third time at that weight and you fail again then for the fourth workout you will deload 10% if you make all 5 sets then you will be adding weight on the fourth workout. For bench and OHP make sure you have 1.25lb plates so you can go up 2.5lb each time rather than 5lb a time. If you can only add 5lbs a time but are struggling with reps keep at it with long rests between sets and try to progress it over the 3 workouts you have. You will be surprised how much a newbie can0 -
Thank you all!!
It's like someone just turned on the lights.
As far as the mechanics of failure, I pretty much "get it" now. I don't like it or look forward to it...but I "get it".
As far as the program, I totally get it now! I was thinking how much of a PIA I'm going to be asking for a spotter every workout, b/c I was thinking that you ALWAYS increase weight (that's sorta the motto of the program and has been hammered into my head), but now I see that you don't add weight every time, because you can't until you get successful 5x5 of a given weight (duh), which might take a couple of workouts (or after 3 tries, de-load). Ding! Lightbulb moment. THANK YOU!
As for 1.25 plates, equipment, etc., Monday I'm going to be meeting with a trainer from the gym who knows about "that" corner of the gym. I've already spoken to him on the phone and he said they have everything I need for the program, but I will see with my own eyes (and it will be kilos, not pounds). I noticed when I was there that they have lots of pre-loaded bars (not fixed bars, but bars that they've pre-loaded & collared to a variety of weights. I couldn't tell, but don't think they were Oly bars. There were definitely Oly bars sitting at some of the stations though (couple of bench press and squat rack). Unf, the trainer who was there had no idea and also thought the Smith machine was a power rack. o_O I was happy when she finally suggested I speak to someone else later (who I phoned later and he seemed knowledgeable and very positive).
Thanks so much. This is an awesome group!0 -
Regarding spotters for BP, I have started doing BP in the power rack. I drag a bench over from the dumb bell area and just do it there since there are safety bars that go low enough. I hate the idea of needing a spotter for 5 or however many sets you are doing. Of course, my gym has 5 power racks and I work out at 6am before it gets busy so I don't feel so bad taking up a rack just to bench. I think I've gotten some looks but it comforts me so that's how I do it.0
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You also get used to what "the rep before I fail" feels like, so don't be a martyr!0
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Good for you for taking the initiative with the power rack. I don't know why you'd get looks for that, but I also don't quite understand the etiquette and norms of "that" corner of the gym yet. :happy: Unfortunately for me, I've looked at a couple of gyms and neither have power racks.
Good to know about the "rep before ya fail". Thank you. That puts me more at ease--that I can choose to stop BEFORE I feel like I'm gonna crush myself. :laugh: I will NOT be a martyr. I want to get strong, not hurt.
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