When Did You Bulk?
Achrya
Posts: 16,913 Member
Hello all. I've been lurking about in here, reading all of your logs and watching the progress with much envy in my heart. I'm finding everyone's progress so educational and interesting and it makes me even more excited for my own eventual bulk (I will have all the muscles. All of them!)
Right now I'm just under 140 pounds and the good old Navy Tape test puts me at 27.5% body fat. My initial goal was 135, which should in theory put me hovering above 25%, assuming optimal conditions. From there I planned to shave off another 5-10 pounds (depending in patience, so probably closer to 5). I want to do a bulk over the winter/spring to coincide with Tough Mudder training (right now trying to run and increase distance/speed while lifting is burning me out.)
So, all that said, I wonder if 130-125 seems like a good starting point to you more experienced ladies. My husband (who admittedly knows next to nothing about bulking except that he's bad at it) seems to think I'll need to drop more body fat, to get under 20%. I'm curious about how low other women went before bulking, to give myself a clear idea of how much longer I'll be on what seems like this eternal weight loss path.
*sniffle* I just want beastly arms already.
Right now I'm just under 140 pounds and the good old Navy Tape test puts me at 27.5% body fat. My initial goal was 135, which should in theory put me hovering above 25%, assuming optimal conditions. From there I planned to shave off another 5-10 pounds (depending in patience, so probably closer to 5). I want to do a bulk over the winter/spring to coincide with Tough Mudder training (right now trying to run and increase distance/speed while lifting is burning me out.)
So, all that said, I wonder if 130-125 seems like a good starting point to you more experienced ladies. My husband (who admittedly knows next to nothing about bulking except that he's bad at it) seems to think I'll need to drop more body fat, to get under 20%. I'm curious about how low other women went before bulking, to give myself a clear idea of how much longer I'll be on what seems like this eternal weight loss path.
*sniffle* I just want beastly arms already.
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Replies
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First, welcome!!!
I've bulked a few times, twice in my early 20's for the basic need to gain weight and then a competition and I did an unplanned, unguided one last year. All 3 times I was extremely lean including the start of my current one. I don't know the my BF for the first 2 as I was underweight at one point but last year and now I was around 14% BF. Each time I wanted more and more muscle, so that was when I knew it was time.
Regarding your question, in a way your husband is right and is the advice I give. There have been guidelines for women to be under 20% or I even read one study of 19-23%. There are theories regarding calorie partitioning and what will be used for fat storage vs muscle building but the ultimate question is this; how long do you want to cut? What will you be comfortable with? The higher BF you start at, the more fat you will have to cut thus meaning either a longer or even more drastic one. Some get inpatient and do drastic cuts resulting in loss of muscle, what was the point then? You will gain fat on a bulk. If you want optimal muscle gains, you will have to reduce/eliminate cardio and put on weight. Yes you can lean/clean bulk depending on your goals and how much muscle you want to add, for myself I'm now in the mindset I don't want anything to interfere with my gains and choose not to get too caught up in minimal fat gains.
So ask yourself what your final goal is and I don't mean just add muscle. Do you have a certain look you're trying to obtain, a certain BF or do have a physique you desire? Then ask yourself how long are you willing to dedicate to it. Bulking is easy in many ways, cutting F'ing sucks. I don't like to eat in a deficit anymore than I have to bc even a small one starts to effect my strength and gym performance at a point. I am of the mindset to bulk when your goal is to add muscle but your mind is ok and trained to know you'll gain fat as well. Bulking/Cutting is not a part of the lifestyle train for me, they are temporary guides to get you to a certain point. If you have a solid lifting plan in place and are ready to pack on muscle with the notion of gaining some fat, I think you'll be ready once you hit your goal weight and maintain for a few weeks to give yourself a diet break.0 -
First, welcome!!!
I've bulked a few times, twice in my early 20's for the basic need to gain weight and then a competition and I did an unplanned, unguided one last year. All 3 times I was extremely lean including the start of my current one. I don't know the my BF for the first 2 as I was underweight at one point but last year and now I was around 14% BF. Each time I wanted more and more muscle, so that was when I knew it was time.
Regarding your question, in a way your husband is right and is the advice I give. There have been guidelines for women to be under 20% or I even read one study of 19-23%. There are theories regarding calorie partitioning and what will be used for fat storage vs muscle building but the ultimate question is this; how long do you want to cut? What will you be comfortable with? The higher BF you start at, the more fat you will have to cut thus meaning either a longer or even more drastic one. Some get inpatient and do drastic cuts resulting in loss of muscle, what was the point then? You will gain fat on a bulk. If you want optimal muscle gains, you will have to reduce/eliminate cardio and put on weight. Yes you can lean/clean bulk depending on your goals and how much muscle you want to add, for myself I'm now in the mindset I don't want anything to interfere with my gains and choose not to get too caught up in minimal fat gains.
So ask yourself what your final goal is and I don't mean just add muscle. Do you have a certain look you're trying to obtain, a certain BF or do have a physique you desire? Then ask yourself how long are you willing to dedicate to it. Bulking is easy in many ways, cutting F'ing sucks. I don't like to eat in a deficit anymore than I have to bc even a small one starts to effect my strength and gym performance at a point. I am of the mindset to bulk when your goal is to add muscle but your mind is ok and trained to know you'll gain fat as well. Bulking/Cutting is not a part of the lifestyle train for me, they are temporary guides to get you to a certain point. If you have a solid lifting plan in place and are ready to pack on muscle with the notion of gaining some fat, I think you'll be ready once you hit your goal weight and maintain for a few weeks to give yourself a diet break.
My primary goal is focused on my ability to train. I was hoping to coincide the bulk with the Tough Mudder training for energy and recovery reasons.
Body wise I'm not unhappy with where I am now, so putting on weight doesn't bother me; I approach it as 'being a little fluffy for a little while is fine, it was being super fluffy that was bad'. My ultimate goal is be a more muscular version of myself right now, basically.
Timewise (timewise is now a word), I was thinking a bulk from January to the end of May (either 10 pounds or back to 145, depending on where I am when I start) then giving myself the summer to cut. Not the entire summer, barring unforeseen circumstances, but I do intend to take it slow. And I'm just starting out with 5/3/1, and was doing Stronglifts for a few months.
I think I hit all the questions? Its 4am, so something may have slipped past. And thank you for the detailed response, it is very much appreciated.0 -
I think you got a good plan. My only suggestion would be to give yourself the summer if not more to cut. You generally want to give yourself as much time in a cut as you did in a bulk. I'm not familiar with all the training that goes into a tough mudder but I definitely think it will help you.0
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It's a lot of interval type training.
Running- then do burpees- then run then do pull ups... run then do sit ups.
That type of thing.
I would say you wouldn't need to bulk just yet- eat at maintenance and train really hard- then after the mudder do some cutting (if you haven't lost weight from the Mudder training) then go on your bulk.
I'm admittedly bulking a little high- but I know it- and I have very specific strength gains I'm looking for and was willing to take the risk- but I realize I'm a little meaty to REALLY be bulking hard.0 -
I think Lyle McDonald recommends women bulk around 20% or less. I did it at 25%, but it was mainly for physiological reasons. I was still really happy with the results however and didn't gain much fat (probably because I combined newby gains with bulking).0
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The only thing I have to contribute to this thread is the link that Evgeni posted on your status. I'm just starting to consider bulking, as well. Our goals are pretty similar, as is our reasoning. (i.e. More or less OK with body appearance now; want moar strength gains; willing to take it slow; etc.)
http://www.bodyrecomposition.com/muscle-gain/initial-body-fat-and-body-composition-changes.html
I'd be interested in hearing what the lovely ladies who have been through this already (possibly multiple times) think of this article, as well.0 -
The only thing I have to contribute to this thread is the link that Evgeni posted on your status. I'm just starting to consider bulking, as well. Our goals are pretty similar, as is our reasoning. (i.e. More or less OK with body appearance now; want moar strength gains; willing to take it slow; etc.)
http://www.bodyrecomposition.com/muscle-gain/initial-body-fat-and-body-composition-changes.html
I'd be interested in hearing what the lovely ladies who have been through this already (possibly multiple times) think of this article, as well.
That article is a very educated and to the point with facts; that's why it's a sticky in this forum. He writes essentially what we are saying; that reducing body fat to an acceptable level is best first then bulking. However there are ladies who've bulked outside of those guidelines and have had success. I just want to point out also that you don't need to bulk for strength gains. After reading more of what tough mudder training is I think it would be more beneficial for you to eat at maintenance during that phase then bulking later. That's essentially a lot of cardio and can hinder your progress.0 -
Thanks everyone for the advice and between that and some wonderful thoughts from friends (and that article that Riven posted the link for.) I think I'm going to keep on lifting and losing until at least 130, maybe as low as 125. Assuming potential lose of no more than 1-2lb of lbm 129 would put me just above 22% and 125 at 20%. (Yay math)
My TM training is trail running once a week, track running twice a week to try to work on speed/distance/endurance and then working in bodyweight stuff along with my lifting. So about two-three hours of cardio a week, all told. (Not sure if that's enough to really hinder gains but if so I'll have to reevaluate and will go for just hanging out in maintance instead. I want gains enough that I can wait for optimal conditions) I've been feeling tired and rundown though, so I'm backing off of some things for the moment.
Anyway, long post summed up, hopefully I'll be able to delurk permenantly around late January/February.0 -
The only thing I have to contribute to this thread is the link that Evgeni posted on your status. I'm just starting to consider bulking, as well. Our goals are pretty similar, as is our reasoning. (i.e. More or less OK with body appearance now; want moar strength gains; willing to take it slow; etc.)
http://www.bodyrecomposition.com/muscle-gain/initial-body-fat-and-body-composition-changes.html
I'd be interested in hearing what the lovely ladies who have been through this already (possibly multiple times) think of this article, as well.
I think Lyle's article is targeted towards bodybuilders are people who want to look like bodybuilders. If you want to end up pretty lean, then yeah, you should start your bulk pretty lean. If you are okay with 25% body fat, then there's no reason to cut to 20% before bulking.
My bulking before and after starting and ending both probably around 25% body fat.
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Hi, i was training for the Tough Mudder last year when i blew out my knee and had to stop. Tough mudder traniing is totally different physical traniing than bulking. For the Mudder you need stamina , agility , speed , etc You do need upper body strength but not in the form of "bulk". In my bulky state that i'm in right now i wouldn't last a minute on the mudder course. So i agree with what others are saying, train for the mudder , lots of running keep your weight down , work on agility and some upper body and importantly teamwork. And after the mudder look into packing on the pounds if you're still interested. Something i never thought about when i was mudder training was the risk for injury is huge, i tore my acl falling from the pull up ladder thing. That ruined my running career for a long time. Bulking and weight lifting is a very low risk of injury , which is why i'm doing that for now. So just be careful !0
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Tough mudder traniing is totally different physical traniing than bulking. For the Mudder you need stamina , agility , speed , etc You do need upper body strength but not in the form of "bulk".
I totally agree with this. I've done a lot of mud runs and plain old races. Adding bulk now will most likely hinder your progress for the TM. My suggestion at the moment is to eat at maintenance and start your bulk when it's over. I ran a marathon and started bulking the next day.0
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