"thus requiring their employees to lose the traditional family time off for the holiday"... This statement gives off the impression that retailers FORCE their employees to work or somehow chain them in the store somehow. An employee is free to seek employers who more closely fit their traditional values at any time. Retailers pay time and a half if not double time for these hours and generally don't call it mandatory for anyone below management. Why isn't it mandatory? Because there is already a long list of employees who will gladly take those hours. Not everyone has traditional "families" or even likes the ones they do have for that matter. I remember working in my teenage years and would have killed to get time in a half regardless the holiday.

My family owned a restaurant and was open all the big holidays except Christmas and New Years day. I never heard many people complain because they made good tips and more importantly, we didn't make anyone work lunch AND dinner. That way employees could plan which time, lunch or dinner, that they wanted to eat with their families. My dad had it worked out that we took reservations for different seatings. 11:00, 1:00, 3:00, 5:00 and 7:00. We had all of our extended family come up at 5 and that is when we all sat down and ate. Hell, my wife (nurse) has to work on Thanksgiving so I am taking the kids by myself to see my side of the family. Then, on Saturday....we came up with this super crazy idea to have Thanksgiving with her family. Because I don't know if everyone knows this little secret...you can work for extra pay on a holiday and then celebrate it on another day! Turns out that there are no secret police stopping you from holding your family Christmas on December 26th. Crazy, I know.

Do you think that the employers need to reevaluate their policies or should the employees be grateful for the holiday pay?

I think that they should be grateful for their jobs, not the holiday pay. Employers aren't even required to pay it in every state. Besides, I'm sure that they know far enough in advance that they'll have to work on Thanksgiving. They can rearrange their plans. This is just part of being an adult. If they don't like it, they should find employment with companies that are closed on holidays.

I haven't had to look for a job for a long time but I was under the impression that they are still not something there is a plethora of out there. Some of you say "If you don't like it get another job" in a manner that suggest it's as easy as making a sandwich if you don't like what's served for dinner. I have a friend with a PhD who worked for years as a university professor. He's working in a restaurant now and that's only because his family owns it. He is trying to get a job in retail for the holiday season and no one will hire him. Jobs aren't as plentiful as some of you seem to believe.

I think it's ridiculous that companies are open on Thanksgiving. Perhaps the people who make that decision should have to give up their family meal then we'll see where their priorities lie. This is nothing more than more corporate greed. Yes, there are people who will shop that day because they don't care about the workers missing their family meal nearly as much as they care about saving a few dollars on a video game. It's a damn shame and a sad commentary on how we treat our fellow man.

I haven't had to look for a job for a long time but I was under the impression that they are still not something there is a plethora of out there. Some of you say "If you don't like it get another job" in a manner that suggest it's as easy as making a sandwich if you don't like what's served for dinner. I have a friend with a PhD who worked for years as a university professor. He's working in a restaurant now and that's only because his family owns it. He is trying to get a job in retail for the holiday season and no one will hire him. Jobs aren't as plentiful as some of you seem to believe.

I think it's ridiculous that companies are open on Thanksgiving. Perhaps the people who make that decision should have to give up their family meal then we'll see where their priorities lie. This is nothing more than more corporate greed. Yes, there are people who will shop that day because they don't care about the workers missing their family meal nearly as much as they care about saving a few dollars on a video game. It's a damn shame and a sad commentary on how we treat our fellow man.

In wholehearted agreement with both parts. A propos the second half and the OP, I think it's very sad that non-essential businesses are open at all on a day that should be about spending time with people you care about. Inevitably there will be people who will have to work on Thanksgiving/Christmas etc, but those people should primarily be health and emergency workers, and others whose jobs are indispensible to safety and functionality (and knew that going into these professions), not retail assistants. Will someone die because they couldn't buy their Christmas presents on Thanksgiving? I rather doubt it.

We don't celebrate Thanksgiving in the UK, so Christmas is the closest alternative to offer an example of a better way (in my opinion). My cousin's wife is the manager of a major department store, and across the entire chain of shops, staff stay late on Christmas Eve so that everything is in readiness for the big sales that start on Boxing Day (December 26th, also a national holiday here). Everyone gets Christmas day off, and different staff, from cleaning to management, are rostered for the late evening on the 24th and the start of business on the 26th, so that every member of staff gets to spend as much time as is feasible with their families and loved ones. Sounds like a much better set of priorities to me, and doesn't hurt business - this hugely-successful chain is owned in shares by its' employees, so every staff member has an incentive for the shop to do well - if being closed for major holidays was really hurting the bottom line, and their individual dividends, I doubt this system would remain in place. Clearly it doesn't - who goes shopping on Christmas Day who won't go one day later for whatever they need/want in any case? If someone's really keen, there's always the option of buying online.

Maybe it's a European mindset. We spent 1 1/2 years in Germany. No stores are open on Sunday. It's just not done. No one dies because they can't get milk on Sunday. They plan for it. Now we're in the UK. We've been here since July. Stores are closed a lot earlier here than in the states. You know how people manage to function? They shop earlier. They plan for it. Americans are much more "instant gratification" and "it's all about me". You can see it in the comments above. If someone actually wants to spend time with their family they should get another job. If they want to go shopping they will and they don't care who has to suffer because of it. If Americans want milk at 3am on a Sunday there is someplace open, probably within a matter of just a few miles, who will sell it to them. Ditto video games, a burger, etc. If Americans are told they can't shop on Sunday they go ballistic. You'd think the day moved around and they never knew it was coming right after Saturday. They can't function. I saw it a lot in Germany. I see it here "What do you mean the store closes at 4:00?!?!" It's all me me me all the time. It's disgusting.

I don't think I've ever heard anyone complain about a place that is closed on Sunday (although the only one I can think of offhand is "Hobby Lobby"). I do know that many of us don't like it when our _government_, at whatever level, tells us that businesses cannot be open on Sundays. I think there is an important difference there - between creepy government enforcement of the Sabbath and the individual right to have your business open whenever you want.

But more generally - If I want milk at 3am - and someone has milk that they want to sell me at 3am - we should be able to come to an arrangement (I imagine in the form of milk at an inflated price).

I don't see it as a symptom of an "all about me" society hell-bent on "instant gratification."

If you want to talk about "all about me" culture - what harm is occurring to people who don't want to shop on holidays when people who do want to shop on holidays, at stores who want to be open on holidays, are afforded that opportunity? Is there some new human right to meddle in the harmless affairs of others that I am, as of yet, unaware? THAT seems presumptuous and self-centered to me.

"What do you mean the store closes at 4:00?!?!" < I suspect that the incredulity here is more like, "So, they are only open when most people are at work too?" With which I agree - I don't ultimately care (I can always go to Amazon or Walmart) and I would never try to change that through a boycott or government action - but it seems like a poor business decision.

My nephew was fired because he didn't work today. he told his boss he wouldn't be able to work on Thanksgiving weekend 3 months ago. His parents bought airline tickets and they all flew to CA from MI for the holiday. Last week his boss scheduled him to work today anyhow. He told him "I can't. I already told you about this months ago. We have airline tickets to CA and we leave Tuesday after I get off work." His boss told him "Well you have a choice. You can spend Thanksgiving in CA or you can have a job."

I don't understand the premise that stores make more by being open on holidays, or 24 hours, or every day for that matter. Given a finite amount of consumer dollars, wouldn't it follow that operating costs take up a bigger proportion of the profits when the stores are open 24/7?
Personally, I choose to do my shopping on week days or Saturdays in the hours around the so-called normal work day, not at night or on Sundays. You know, the way we did it before there was Sunday opening or 24 hour stores. I hate that stores are open on holidays, even if employees are offered a choice about whether or not to work. Then again, I don't view shopping as entertainment and have the ability to plan my purchases most of the time.
I just saw video of a Black Friday riot on the morning news. The mob is out in full force today. Sad.

I understand the need for essential services (medical facilities, police, fire, etc) to be open on holidays, but those are trained professions. The people choosing them have upwards of a decade to determine if that's a sacrifice they're willing to make. (And, to be fair, small town police officers often don't have to work on Thanksgiving, or at least not actively - they may be on an on-call status for emergency purposes.)

The people that work retail or restaurants don't have that luxury, and are often working it because nothing else is available. The line level employees are often teenagers or college kids, where the odd hours allow them to work around their class schedule.

Even working at a gas station or restaurant is a far cry different than working retail. Granted, if you're one of the only gas stations (or food places) open in the area, then it's going to be a busy day for you, but it's nothing compared to the hell that is working retail on Black Friday. Many of the restaurants that are open on Thanksgiving are only open for the morning.

For the retail workers, Black Friday starts long before the doors open, which is something many people don't understand. The merchandise can't be set up while the store is open, so it has to be done before. If a store closes at 9 or 10pm on Wednesday, is closed on Thanksgiving day and opens at, say, 5am on Friday, then the team has time to set up without cutting too much into the holiday, though it is still disruptive. They unload the trucks after closing, and set up either on Wednesday night, or early Friday morning. It makes for a late night and early morning (especially if you're the poor sap who has to close on Wednesday and open on Friday), but at least Thursday is still available.

When the doors open at 6pm on Thursday, then the setup team has to be in before that. If you're lucky, and only need to be there by 5, then you have to have Thanksgiving brunch instead of dinner. If you're not so lucky, then you can consider your Thanksgiving day shot. Oh, and you're probably stuck on a 12-hour shift, too, so even if you don't have to go in until later, you're probably either stuck with pulling an all-nighter, or you're going to have to take a nap during the day. There goes more of the holiday.

Historically (in my experience, having worked retail), Black Friday is compulsory for all employees, with few, if any, exceptions. If this is the case for opening on Thanksgiving, then that's what I take most issue with. If working that day is entirely volunteer, with no ramifications for saying "no, I can't work it," then that's a different matter. I personally know someone who volunteered to work on Thanksgiving day, so I know there are some people who would jump at the opportunity. That's not everyone, though, and if companies really care for their employees, then they'd respect that and only open if they get enough volunteers to cover it. This goes for the store as a whole, too - if the general manager of a store chooses to not open on Thanksgiving day, they shouldn't be forced to, and things like this - http://www.newsday.com/news/nation/pizza-hut-manager-fired-after-refusing-to-open-on-thanksgiving-1.6513873 - shouldn't happen.

Oh, and Thanksgiving and Christmas are generally the only two guaranteed holidays retail employees get off. Now, that count is down to one, setting the precedent to nix the other within a few years, if this one sticks.

As far as pay goes, the US Department of Labor (for US workers, at least), doesn't dictate holiday pay, so extra pay isn't guaranteed. Some places are a little shady, too, in that even if the company does pay holiday pay, whether you actually get it depends on when you clocked in (ie - if you clocked in before midnight on Wednesday and work into Thursday morning, you don't get the holiday pay; and no, you can't clock out and back in). This latter note may or may not affect workers right now (it depends on when the merchandizers have to do their work), but if they continue to open earlier and earlier and still treat it like Black Friday, this may eventually come into play. But again, being open on a holiday does not guarantee that the people working it will get holiday pay, nor will it guarantee something like time-and-a-half or double time if they do get holiday pay.

It's easy to say "if you don't like it, find somewhere else to work," but actually doing so is a lot harder, especially if you have rent to pay and mouths to feed. Regardless of whether you're educated, this is still a "buyers market" when it comes to employment, which means that employers will be overly picky for finding people. Searching for a job does not equate to finding one and getting hired, and in the meantime, you have to keep a roof over your head and food on the table. If you're in the process of going to school in an effort to "better yourself," it can make it even harder to find a new job, because not many that don't already require a degree have the flexibility required to deal with a college class schedule. The college degree, in itself, doesn't guarantee a "better" job, either, since there are typically more graduates than there are jobs for them.

So, while they're not literally chained to the store (that would be illegal, that whole "unlawful detention" thing), they are, in a sense, forced to work a Black Friday shift if they want to remain employed and avoid the circumstance of "sucking from the welfare/government teat," as some would like to put it, because they can't find another job at the moment.

I don't understand the premise that stores make more by being open on holidays, or 24 hours, or every day for that matter. Given a finite amount of consumer dollars, wouldn't it follow that operating costs take up a bigger proportion of the profits when the stores are open 24/7?

Generally speaking, (a lot of) the operating costs of a brick and mortar store are incurred regardless of whether the store is open. They typically have lights running all the time for security, and refrigeration systems have to stay running, as well. This makes the operating costs of having the store open only marginally higher than having it closed at a given time. In places with an active night life, the operating costs of being open 24/7 are outweighed by the money made by being open for the night owls.