true farm fresh eggs, no suffering
Kenazwa
Posts: 278 Member
In the spring and summer, we have a source of true farm-fresh eggs where the chickens have a lot of space outside and get good care. The flock lays way too many eggs to hatch them all.
Is there a compelling reason not to eat them?
Is there a compelling reason not to eat them?
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Replies
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Because eggs are chickens' periods: http://www.peta2.com/blog/are_eggs_chicken_periods_a_nurse_gives_the_lowdown/0
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When I'm told of free-range, my first question is where all the roosters are. If there aren't any, then where are they and what happened to them? Odds are, they buy their chicks from factories where the males are culled. So if you buy the eggs, you're paying people to kill the chicks.
Otherwise, I wouldn't know treatment really is good. When you make animals' bodies a business and sell their eggs and their milk, economic concerns are almost a little more important than their welfare. I would not "count" on anybody who does this for a living to truly take good care of the animals.0 -
This isn't anybody trying to make a living. It's a friend of a friend with a small backyard flock of chickens because she really enjoys chickens. There is a rooster, and some eggs are allowed to hatch. They have a house for roosting at night and are free in the large yard by day.
I'm not trying to justify eating them. It's just that I'm so new to a plant-based diet and vegan philosophy that I wonder what others think.0 -
I believe this channel has a few more videos on eggs as well
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RtGf2FuzKo4&list=UUddn8dUxYdgJz3Qr5mjADtA&feature=c4-overview 0 -
I believe you know the people and the conditions better than anyone to reply here, and you can trust your own judgement on this. If you feel it's not hurting anyone, and there's no reason why not to take some eggs - then go ahead. I thought you were talking about a "free-range" farm.0
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Personally I would eat them if I believed the chickens were happy, especially if they would go to waste otherwise. I agree with the poster above that you have to use your own discernment. People have all sorts of opinions, including those who don't believe animals should be kept in captivity or that any part of an animal should be used in any way -- personally I think we have to trust ourselves to draw our own line.
When you say that some eggs are allowed to hatch, does this mean the eggs are fertilized? Usually the eggs we eat are not fertilized, although I admit I'm not sure how backyard chicken-owners do it. It could be a bit unsettling to find an embryo in your breakfast.
Interesting question, thanks for posting!0 -
Because eggs are chickens' periods: http://www.peta2.com/blog/are_eggs_chicken_periods_a_nurse_gives_the_lowdown/
It's not really equivalent...chickens don't slough their uterine lining when they release the egg.0 -
I too have thought about this topic. I am new to the vegetarian and still consider myself transitioning. My ultimate goal is to go totally vegan by the end of this year. But I live in a household with a meat eater and I still end up preparing his meals with meat and eggs and dairy. I do buy him eggs from a local free range farmer. On several occasions in this transition I have given in and had some eggs with him and justify to myself that they are from happy free range chickens. Though I always feel guilty afterward and I will swear off eggs again. It's a though place to be when you are still trying to figure out where you stand. I am not sure where I stand on backyard 'almost pet' chicken eggs. It seems a lot better than the farms.0
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Personally I would eat them if I believed the chickens were happy, especially if they would go to waste otherwise. I agree with the poster above that you have to use your own discernment. People have all sorts of opinions, including those who don't believe animals should be kept in captivity or that any part of an animal should be used in any way -- personally I think we have to trust ourselves to draw our own line.
When you say that some eggs are allowed to hatch, does this mean the eggs are fertilized? Usually the eggs we eat are not fertilized, although I admit I'm not sure how backyard chicken-owners do it. It could be a bit unsettling to find an embryo in your breakfast.
Interesting question, thanks for posting!
I guess a good percentage of them are probably fertilized, never thought about that really. I think there are only certain hens that she allows to brood, all other eggs she gathers on a daily basis so they don't get to the embryo stage of development.
I'm still transitioning. Vegetarian is easier for me to achieve than full vegan, but I think my doctor is right about the potential health benefits for me so that's what I'm going for.0 -
When I'm told of free-range, my first question is where all the roosters are. If there aren't any, then where are they and what happened to them? Odds are, they buy their chicks from factories where the males are culled. So if you buy the eggs, you're paying people to kill the chicks.
This ^
Personally, animal welfare isn't enough for me. I do not believe we have the right to own other beings and exploit their labour for our own purposes. Unless farm animals have been rescued and are living in a sanctuary, they shouldn't be captive.
"Free-range" farming is such a seductive idea for many people but there are so many ethical problems involved... even for people just concerned with welfare rather than the end of captivity. As stated above hens are usually sourced from the same hatcheries that supply factory farming so it still supports factory farming. These hatcheries put the male chicks through grinders while still alive or gas them.0 -
I eat a vegan diet for health reasons. For me, it's the saturated fat and cholesterol in eggs that prevent me from eating them. Eggs are not safe or healthy. Search eggs on nutritionfacts.org.0
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I do not believe we have the right to own other beings and exploit their labour for our own purposes.
So how would you feel about horseback riding? I'm genuinely curious. I'm new to the vegan community and I am also a horse lover, owned horses all of my life (with the exception of the past few years). I'm just wondering where the issue stands within the community. I can say that my horse - who I sadly had to leave in the care of a friend whilst I traveled - was definitely not overworked lol! Fat, hairy, spoiled and with all year access to a very large field and shelter (shared with his mates) with the occassional ride around our village pretty much summed up his lifestyle. I believe that if people did not keep horses recreationally, then there would be less opposition to using horses for meat.
As for the egg thing - I don't see anything wrong with using eggs from privately owned chickens who are kept as pets rather than to produce for profit.
P.S. Just to be clear, my horse wasn't fat through any form of neglect or wrong feeding. He is a Welsh Cob, they're supposed to get a little rounded in the tummy in preperation for the poor grass in winter.0 -
By definition a vegan does not consume, USE or eat any animals or animal products.0
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By definition a vegan does not consume, USE or eat any animals or animal products.
Can a vegan use animals for companionship?0 -
OK so what if someone rescues the chickens (there are some currently in the shelter by my house just sitting in cages
) and they lay the eggs? What then? use them for compost? toss them out?
I am vegan for both health and moral reasons, so I am conflicted. I want to go rescue those chickens, I have the space! But I hate hate wasting things, should I just compost the eggs (I compost everything and grow all of my own fruits and veggies and the chickens would be great to eat all of the bugs)?0 -
mteague277, there were people who ate eggs where I used to live and we tossed them in the compost. Only place for eggs is the compost
The chickens would be way better of in your care I bet. The rabbit rescue I got my bunny from had rescue chickens off the back of the slaughter truck.0 -
I guess I'll never be vegan since I keep 2 snakes, 1 tortoise, 1 bird, various tropical fish, a cat, a dog, and a red-belly toad. Having my own zoo makes me happy. I try to make my animals happy too. They get good care.
But I'm still pursuing a plant-based diet.0 -
I guess I'll never be vegan since I keep 2 snakes, 1 tortoise, 1 bird, various tropical fish, a cat, a dog, and a red-belly toad. Having my own zoo makes me happy. I try to make my animals happy too. They get good care.
But I'm still pursuing a plant-based diet.
Don't feel guilty about not fitting in the exact definition of 'Vegan'. I guess technically I would define a vegan as someone that uses/consumes no animal products. But frankly, the labeling is just another way for people to exclude others. It seems to me that it would make others feel like vegans think they are better than non-vegans, when in reality there are just as many jerks who are vegans as there are meat eaters. The elitists vegans try to condemn some the vegetarians for eating dairy and eggs, and denounce vegans for eating honey or wearing leather or wool; or even feeding a pet dog or cat meat. Its all just too subjective. So if you feel like those chickens are not being harmed then by all means eat their eggs. There is no need to change to fit into one persons definition of what to be and how to eat. Just keep following your heart and you can feel good about your choices.0 -
I guess I'll never be vegan since I keep 2 snakes, 1 tortoise, 1 bird, various tropical fish, a cat, a dog, and a red-belly toad. Having my own zoo makes me happy. I try to make my animals happy too. They get good care.
But I'm still pursuing a plant-based diet.
Don't feel guilty about not fitting in the exact definition of 'Vegan'. I guess technically I would define a vegan as someone that uses/consumes no animal products. But frankly, the labeling is just another way for people to exclude others. It seems to me that it would make others feel like vegans think they are better than non-vegans, when in reality there are just as many jerks who are vegans as there are meat eaters. The elitists vegans try to condemn some the vegetarians for eating dairy and eggs, and denounce vegans for eating honey or wearing leather or wool; or even feeding a pet dog or cat meat. Its all just too subjective. So if you feel like those chickens are not being harmed then by all means eat their eggs. There is no need to change to fit into one persons definition of what to be and how to eat. Just keep following your heart and you can feel good about your choices.
Well said! :drinker:0 -
Thank you. I was considering leaving this group due to not really fitting the philosophy. But I do want a place to talk about my choices and progression. I'm having no problem with the vegetarian diet, but I'm pushing toward the completely plant-based diet as much as old habits will let me.0
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For me, there are three main questions:
1) How were the chickens acquired? If they were purchased from a traditional farm, or some other outlet that would profit off of the deaths of hens (either for meat or destruction of male chicks), this would be a huge red flag.
2) What happens to the hens when they stop laying eggs? Are they allowed to peacefully live out the rest of their days despite not producing eggs, or are they eaten or sold to someone for meat?
3) Is anyone profiting off of these eggs? Are the reproductive cycles of the hens being used as a commodity?
If the hens were adopted from a sanctuary/rescue, were allowed to "retire" comfortably and live out their natural lives after ceasing to produce eggs, and no one was profiting off of sale of the eggs, I would probably eat them (assuming the hens had gotten first pick and eaten their fill of eggs, as chickens tend to do).
However, I would no longer refer to myself as a "Vegan" - not to conform to any sort of societal label, but because it is confusing to non-vegans. It would be upsetting to both parties if a traditional vegan were prepared an egg dish because that person has a "vegan" friend that eats eggs. It's all for consistency, not conforming.
Keep in mind though that every step you make toward plant-based, ethical choices is a great one! Do what you can to reduce suffering for the greatest number.0 -
I'm not trying to play Devil's advocate, but aside from the discussion of how the chickens are living, is anyone just simply grossed out with the fact of consuming something that came out of a living creature's body? Eww.0
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Because eggs are chickens' periods: http://www.peta2.com/blog/are_eggs_chicken_periods_a_nurse_gives_the_lowdown/
It's not really equivalent...chickens don't slough their uterine lining when they release the egg.
But the shell is formed by a gland as the unfertilized egg travels through the reproductive tract. And it's still disgusting. Just think about it.0 -
For me, there are three main questions:
1) How were the chickens acquired? If they were purchased from a traditional farm, or some other outlet that would profit off of the deaths of hens (either for meat or destruction of male chicks), this would be a huge red flag.
2) What happens to the hens when they stop laying eggs? Are they allowed to peacefully live out the rest of their days despite not producing eggs, or are they eaten or sold to someone for meat?
3) Is anyone profiting off of these eggs? Are the reproductive cycles of the hens being used as a commodity?
If the hens were adopted from a sanctuary/rescue, were allowed to "retire" comfortably and live out their natural lives after ceasing to produce eggs, and no one was profiting off of sale of the eggs, I would probably eat them (assuming the hens had gotten first pick and eaten their fill of eggs, as chickens tend to do).
However, I would no longer refer to myself as a "Vegan" - not to conform to any sort of societal label, but because it is confusing to non-vegans. It would be upsetting to both parties if a traditional vegan were prepared an egg dish because that person has a "vegan" friend that eats eggs. It's all for consistency, not conforming.
Keep in mind though that every step you make toward plant-based, ethical choices is a great one! Do what you can to reduce suffering for the greatest number.
Well said. And truthfully, it is very rare to find an egg that fits into all of this, especially point 2. Chickens live on average until they are 10 years old (sometimes even 15!) but they drastically slow/stop their egg production around 3 years... thus most hobby farms that consume chicken eggs will not let their chickens live out their full life and butcher them early.
Thank you Kenazwa for asking this original question honestly. You will find among the vegan community many people who have different rationals for their choices and views but most of us are very open to educating and learning so I welcome you to stay in this group and learn more about veganism!
And to the notes about "using" animals. This depends on the situation. For example, almost all animal liberation groups support companion animals (i.e. pets of any type) as long as they don't come from unethical sources like puppy mills that exploit the mothers and are treated with the respect that human and non-human animals deserve. I have met some people campaigning for work horses that carry carriages around town for tourists to end because the horses are abused and treated poorly and work in unsafe conditions. Horses that are companions that you ride and treat well and respect are okay in my books!0 -
I do think about it, but I'm just not grossed out by eggs coming from hens' bodies. I am, however, grossed out by slaughterhouses. Vegetarian is still going well, now onward to vegan! It's time to plan next week's grocery buy.0
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There is no reason to leave the Team Vegan if you are interested in eventually moving that direction. Open discussion with people that follow a traditional vegan diet will help answer your questions and raise healthy debate, like this topic.Thank you. I was considering leaving this group due to not really fitting the philosophy. But I do want a place to talk about my choices and progression. I'm having no problem with the vegetarian diet, but I'm pushing toward the completely plant-based diet as much as old habits will let me.
Many people I have talked to clarify their egg consumption with "but they are Pasture Raised, Free Range, Organic Eggs". But I doubt that many people have stopped to think about the ethics of even free range or organic production egg farming. I was one of these people for a long time. My husband still eats meat, eggs and dairy and I respect his choice as he does mine to be vegan.
The fact that you are seeking out more information and the opinion of others shows that you are probably more ready than you think to move to a vegan diet than you realize. Old habits are hard to break, yes. Cheese was my weakness in the beginning of my journey. But after making the plunge to cut animal products out fully it did not take long before even my cravings for dairy were long gone. And in time you wont miss the eggs at all, if that is the direction you choose to go.0 -
mteague277, there were people who ate eggs where I used to live and we tossed them in the compost. Only place for eggs is the compost
Actually, if you drop the eggs on the ground an let them break all the chickens go crazy and eat everything including the shell. That's natural for them. That what they do if the eggs they lay break naturally or start to go bad.0 -
You haven't addressed the health issue. Eggs are one of the worst food choices out there! You seem to have heard and understand the health implications of animal products; eggs are just about the worst! Cheese being the worst, then eggs. Lean meat, especially fish, is not nearly as unhealthy as eggs are.
I assume you don't want diabetes and heart disease, do you?0 -
Honestly, I would not even consider it at this point unless for some reason I NEEDED to. Eggs and other animal products gross me out.
My love has other health concerns as well as celiac disease which makes it hard for him to be vegan as he gets deficient in nutrients and protein very easily so I've actually brought up the idea of eating TRUE farm fresh eggs once a month for him to supplement his vegan nutrients and protein. The stipulation I guess would be that it was a rescued hen, rather than one bred for human consumption, and they were just the eggs naturally produced by the hen each month, unfertilized and nothing used to make her create more.
Even then he refused lol. Personally I'd be willing to give it a shot for my kids or loved ones or when I was pregnant and farm fresh eggs would be the ONLY exception.0 -
I am grateful for friends that have similar homes for chickens. I'm divorced and I have my kids only half time, the other half they spend with their mom who isn't vegan/vegetarian or even really health-attentive. My kids have a taste for flesh and cheese and eggs and they have a hard time with much of the food I have for them. The flavor experience for someone that it a regular carnivore is hard to anticipate for a long-term vegan/vegetarian. I try to be pretty serious about minimizing the suffering of others and am mostly vegan but those ethical eggs are something my kids and I can enjoy together. So nice.0
