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Fat Adapted/Carb Nite/Carb Backloading

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angelaneale
angelaneale Posts: 102 Member
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So I'm confused. So far this year I've been working to be fat adapted. I don't pee on peices of paper (keto sticks) or check my blood ketone levels or anything like that, I've just been concerned with eating nutritious foods (minus alcohol) and eating pretty low carb/high fat. I've been doing well with that as far as my energy levels are and my performance while working out, and genereal well being throughout the day go. My issue is that I'm maintaining my weight/body fat and I would like to be losing inches and body fat.

After hearing several podcasts recently (including the most recent Fat2FitHQ and Robb Wolf's Paleo Solution) that talk about Carb Nite and Carb Backloading, I'm wondering if I should give one of these methods a shot. If so, which one should I try? Both programs are quite pricey to me so I hope to select the right one if I decide to do it. Also, can either of them be done without eating crappy foods? I'm not interested in eating donuts, pastas, cookies, or any of that other stuff. Would starchy carbs (real foods that only need to be cooked to processed) work?

I will also check out Philipp's website but in the meantime I'll be interested in hearing your opinions.

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  • carolssalva
    carolssalva Posts: 546 Member
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    I am LOVING Carb Nite this week. I took Phillip's advice and stayed super low carb a few more days instead of having my carbonate on day #7. I think it was day #8 that my hunger went away and my blood ketones started getting higher. It has been 5 days since I felt really hungry. That is SO BIZARRE for me. I am always, always hungry.
    Not sure what did the trick: Staying so low carb for more days or what not eating these days. I gave up carbonated water and stopped trying to get my fat% so high. That always resulted in 1,500 calories or so and I have never lost weight at that intake.
    I heard Dr. Rocky Patel say that he does well if he keeps his calories low while he is doing this. (not sure if he was talking about CN or CBL)
    So I started shooting for under 1,000 calories. Maybe that is the difference.
    I can tell you this week I have been under 1,000 calories a day because I'm just not hungry. Hoping this means that my body is eating itself! :)
    I've lost 5 lbs but too soon to tell how real that is.
    Also - I might be getting that Keto-rash. Not sure, I'm a bit of a hypochondriac.
    Another downside is that Carb Nite is supposed to be a stressor for women as is Ketosis. Well, I don't feel stressed. I am full of energy and elated to see the scale moving finally. But that said, I will only be doing this for a few weeks to see if I can drop the Christmas weight and then up my calories again and see how it goes.
    Of course, there is always my Carb Nite that will ensure that I have plenty of calories!
    yes, I know I have heard that you can do Carb Nite with quality food. Safe starches, etc. Just looking for a high glycemic load food.
    Did you see that you can get the Carb Nite book for $27? http://carbnite.com
    Also - google Andrea (AJ) Jengle. She was recently on the Health Nuts Anonymous podcast and was also on John Kiefer's show. She talk a lot about women and CN and CBL. Carb Nite didn't work for her but Carb Backloading is working really well.
    The way you train, you should consider that one, I think.
    Sorry that I don't know enough about either to advise you. But if you google John Kiefer, he is on a ton of shows talking about the difference between the protocols.
    Keep us posted on how your journey goes!!
  • angelaneale
    angelaneale Posts: 102 Member
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    Thanks for all the great info and for making me laugh (hypochondriac)! LOL! I'm listening to the Health Nuts Anonymous podcast with Andrea now. I also found her website yesterday but for some reason can't find any info about her and carb nite or carb backloading. I'm sure that's operator error though.

    I think both books are $27 and that seems high to me. Maybe I'm just cheap? Probably.

    I've googled John Keifer, went to his website, and listened to his podcast (1 episode - the Q & A episode). He talks waaaaaaaaaaaay over my head. I need to have information in layman's terms or "for dummies." I will try again when I'm not actually at work and when I can focus on what's being said.

    Eating between 1500 - 2200 calories a day has been useful for me to maintain my weight but I agree with you (unfortunately) I need a bigger deficit to lose fat/weight. My issue is that I want my body to burn fat and not muscle. I don't want to be "skinny fat" just to weigh less.

    I'm interested in knowing how this turns out for you! If DEXA scans weren't so expensive ($100), I would have one completed prior to experimenting with either of these options and then have one done right after, just to see where the losses are actually coming from (fat or muscle).

    Thanks again!
  • angelaneale
    angelaneale Posts: 102 Member
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    I searched Andrea's site again and she doesn't have anything on there that I can find about carb backloading. What the heck? She's the female HMFIC of this carb backloading stuff that Keifer references but she has nothing on her site about it?

    http://www.herfitnesssolutions.com/blog/
  • swilliams921
    swilliams921 Posts: 8 Member
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    The podcasts are for more in depth information for readers of the books that have a good understanding of the protocols. If I hadn't read the books I would be a mess trying to get a grasp on what to try. You really won't gain much unless you read it. I feel like the books pay for themselves. I used to spend tons of money on supplements and lots of foods I felt I really needed but found they were just keeping me fat and now I eat less until I want a big backload or carb nite.

    I started with carb nite first then tried carb backloading later. I can tell you for sure that eating that many calories and not gaining weight is helping your body a lot by giving it all the energy it needs to make any repairs it once had to budget if you ever tried a low fat and low calorie diet. I've been on a 2000-2400 calorie binge for the past couple of months since I was sidelined from the gym with an injury and haven't gained or lost anything. You could eat 4000 calories a day and not gain because from everything in research the main ingredient needed to make fat is insulin which stays low in the absence of carbs. But also, with that being said if your body has all the energy it needs from you eating 1500-2200 calories a day why would it ever go into your stores for energy? That's the question you have to ask yourself.

    But the $27 is we'll worth the investment. That saved me hundreds in pre-workout supplements and all the thermogenic supplements I used to take like hydroxycut. Plus I only eat two meals a day instead of 5-6 so time cooking and money to pay for some groceries has been relieved with a new found freedom. Not to mention the hunger I used to always feel if I couldn't have my high carb small meal ever 3-4 hours.
  • angelaneale
    angelaneale Posts: 102 Member
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    Thanks for the info SWilliams921! So are you saying that even though I'm eating 1500 - 2200 cals a day via a HFLC/NSNG (High Fat Low Carb/No Sugars No Grains) diet that my body can't tap into it's fat stores so it needs an insulin dump every now and then? Or do I just need to drop my calories so it can dip in to fat stores for energy?

    Currently, I'm not really ever starving and on average I eat 2 - 3 meals a day. If I have a bullet proof coffee or a fat smoothie in the morning, then I only have two actual meals that day. I'm not wasting money on supplements as the only things that I take are either collagen or gelatin and occasionally, less than 3 times a month, I'll have a green superfood drink.
  • swilliams921
    swilliams921 Posts: 8 Member
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    Insulin is only there to make your body store fat. It doesn't do anything to help use the fat. In a way the calorie deficit does still apply even though it's not mentioned in the book. There's no reason for your body to take from fat stores if it's getting more dietary fat than it needs to function.
  • carolssalva
    carolssalva Posts: 546 Member
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    I am confused also. I guess what Stephen is saying is that if I am giving my body plenty of fat and calories, why would it ever burn my own fat.
    All I know is that I did a VERY high fat/low carb diet and all different variations of it for many weeks at a time. I also tested my blood and several times I was technically in ketosis. **Didn't loose weight, actually gained a little bit of weight. Wasn't muscle because I wasn't strength training much at all.
    Now when I finally did feel in ketosis recently, I cut my calories naturally. I am in a challenge where I need to stop eating around 7:30pm and I'm just not hungry til about 2:00. At first, I had a lot of hunger and so I had a lot of calories in that 6 hour window. But after a while, I would forget to eat. FORGET TO EAT?? Who the heck is talking? I am eating a ton of veggies with some fat and protein but it still ends up being lower calorie than I'm used to. Now the scale is finally moving. And I understand that Ketosis is muscle sparing.
    I had a carb nite on Friday and yesterday had too many carbs in the form of green juice. Hunger returned today. :( But it is manageable. Still not like it used to be. So that is letting me get my macros back in check and I will try to work on the deficit again for a while if I am feeling energetic and good still. I am also not going to have a carb nite this week probably. I want to wait until I can really tell that I'm in ketosis again and let that go a couple of days.
    Isn't there an e-version of the book?
    Hey Angela - Andrea will be on our show but not til end of April. Send me questions if you want. :)
  • angelaneale
    angelaneale Posts: 102 Member
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    I'm very interested to see how this experiment pans out for you, Carol. It seems to be working great so far! If I start to look into carb nite or carb backloading any further, I'll definitely send you some questions for Andrea. Right now, I'm over it. Ha ha! That passed quickly! I just like to keep things simple and this is all too confusing. I can't get on board with the carb refeed especially when it comes to poor quality foods. They are triggers for me and just from considering this stuff, I have already talked myself in to eating a Reese's cup and jelly beans (that my in-laws left at my house). It sounds trivial but this is how the justifications start in my head and just one small crappy poor quality sugar laden food will set me off and in a couple of weeks I'll be stopping at McDonald's and Wendy's several times a week, eating whole subs, and ordering large shakes. I've lived this roller coaster over and over, year after year. It's ridiculous actually.

    Since I've been doing okay so far this year, I'll keep at it. Maybe this is where my body wants to be? I'm not sure, but I feel good and have good performance at my workouts, so I'll just go with the flow. In two days (or when another podcast guest peaks my interest) I may have a different opinion as I'm all over the board here...as always. LOL!
  • imabizzybee
    imabizzybee Posts: 123 Member
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    Got the e-book. Going to read it this week. I made fat bombs yesterday for my morning "meal" when I'm ready to get started. I'll keep you posted. Not being hungry sounds like a good option, Carol! Fingers crossed...

    I'm sure you don't have to eat donuts. There are non-grain carbs that are way healthier, like sweet potatoes and lentils. I gave up all grains more than a year ago, and won't be eating the donuts.
  • carolssalva
    carolssalva Posts: 546 Member
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    Carb nite is sstill working for me but I have re-defined "working." I am maintaining a 9 lb loss (some scales say 10 but I think it is really 9). That is amazing to me because I've gone through a monthly cycle now and also had some vey poor quality food on Carb Nite. I really am just trying to get that insulin spike and also enjoying some stuff I miss. But you're right Angela - I don't dare indulge in a trigger food. I have too much respect for the addiction to sodas to go there. I'm finding a balance I think. I might be able to make more progress if my carb nites were not so over the top and if I used higher quality insulin-spiking foods. But in my world, the fun of the one meal is outweighing the need to get m ore strict. As long as I'm not gaining, I am going to keep this up for a few more weeks. I would like to knock down a few more lbs so might get more strict soon. I am interviewing Andrea this Wed. Any questions - please send asap. carol@fat2fithq.com is best. Thanks!!! Keep up what is working for you Andrea! Keep us posted Cynthia also and THANKS Stephen!
  • angelaneale
    angelaneale Posts: 102 Member
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    Oh darn! Last week I would've had lots of questions for AJ. Now I just want to know why she doesn't have anything on her website about CBL?

    I have since found these other ladies' sites that talk a lot about CBL:

    http://www.powerhousefitfoodie.com/2013/08/carb-backloading-meal-ideas.html
    http://julialadewski.com/2012/04/carb-back-loading-explained-faq-and-is/
  • carolssalva
    carolssalva Posts: 546 Member
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    veeeery cool Angela! Thank you for those links. I want to check them out.

    I know you're over all this CBL stuff but if it is okay with you, I want to use your original question on this thread. I can give the disclaimer that Angela has her answers now but I think this is a very common question that folks ask when first peeking into Carb Nite or CBL. Especially women who are already training and finding a lot of progress but want to be as efficient as possible with the whole fat-adapted thing.
    Let me know if you'd rather I not use your name. I am happy to say "This crazy-training chick from our MFP group posted a question to the community...."
    LOL just kidding. I am in awe of your efforts and you know it!!

    Carol
  • angelaneale
    angelaneale Posts: 102 Member
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    You can definitely use my question! I'm not over the CBL or CNS thing(s) yet, or should I say, this week? Ha ha! I'm still teetering on the edge of deciding which one to do. From reading all these websites and tons of info, I'm thinking I should start with Carb Nite. I get really confused after reading so much. That's a normal state for me though. Duh!! Ha ha!

    The athlete.io site says that "unless you are under 20% (body fat) you will want to stick with CNS." The link to that article is here: http://athlete.io/3910/the-cute-girl-guide-to-carb-back-loading/. I don't know what my actual body fat is, but my scale tells me that I'm at 31.1% and that's just under being over weight. I think I actually am a lower than that so I would easily qualify for the CNS protocol.

    I also read that for women your carb nite should only consist of one meal including a small dessert. That was found here: http://carbnitecookiez.wordpress.com/tag/women-and-carb-nite-solution-and-carb-back-loading/

    Good luck with your interview! I can't wait to hear it!! :)
  • misstaramichelle
    misstaramichelle Posts: 1 Member
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    Carol...I'd be interested to know what you eat on your ULC days and what your macros were when you finally started losing weight. I have also experimented with ketogenic diets as well as carb nite and found them to be successful, but not nearly successful as I'd like. 9 lbs in a monthly cycle is fantastic and close to what I'd like to see for myself. Also, on your carb nites, did you plan things out or try to stick to a certain amount of carbs/fat/calories?

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