electrolyte supplements
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s35keith
Posts: 121 Member
I have had some serious calf cramp issues in my previous marathons and I have been looking at electrolyte supplements. Has anyone ever used them are they any good, any recommendations? Thanks
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Replies
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Hard to say what the exact cause of your cramps are as it depends on many factors like where your training is at and at what point in your run/race do the cramps present. So it may or may not be electrolyte related. One option I hear lots about is pickle juice or mustard, which has ben touted by a number of distance runners experiencing muscles cramps latish in marathons and ultras. Just a thought! Good luck with your training!0
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Current research points to two contributing factors to cramping:
1. Genetics
2. Asking muscle to do something they aren't properly trained and prepared for
There is no direct link to electrolytes or hydration as a cause of cramping.0 -
Another great topic. I have utilized S Caps for years. During hot summer marathons and ultras I consume lots of water. Each hour I take S-Caps to help replenish lost Electrolytes. This allows for water absorption, prevents cramping, and reduces that swollen feeling in your hands. During my younger faster years in the late 80s and early 90s I had never heard of such a thing. I was running 3:20s for a marathon back then and had no problems. I think cramps are related to low sodium and not dehydration.
Can anyone provide some clarity on this topic?0 -
Can anyone provide some clarity on this topic?
"Waterlogged" by Tim Noakes.
He smashes every myth about dehydration and all the related sub-myths like cramping and electrolyte balance.0 -
Can anyone provide some clarity on this topic?
"Waterlogged" by Tim Noakes.
He smashes every myth about dehydration and all the related sub-myths like cramping and electrolyte balance.
The exception being that a good chunk of the research Noakes relies on has been done on men only, or on women and men but not appreciative of the fact that women have differences in fluid retention throughout the menstrual cycle (and some are on hormonal birth control).
We don't know WHAT'S going on with women. You appear to be a dude though.0 -
So what do you recommend or what do you actually do during your longest runs and races in hot weather? I heard about the book and some opposition to its ideas. I want my next BQ attempt to be as logistically simple as possible. Messing around with S-Caps concerns me when I am racing a marathon. In the past I could take time to mess with plastic baggies of S-Caps. Do you take GUs during your marathon? I could see taking Hammer GU to avoid taking S-Caps. They have electrolytes.
I will go get the book.
Maybe it is as simple as drinking a cup of water per station and keep going. If my training was sufficient maybe that and one or two Hammer gels is all I need.0 -
We don't know WHAT'S going on with women.
Could have just left it at that.
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So what do you recommend or what do you actually do during your longest runs and races in hot weather? I heard about the book and some opposition to its ideas. I want my next BQ attempt to be as logistically simple as possible. Messing around with S-Caps concerns me when I am racing a marathon. In the past I could take time to mess with plastic baggies of S-Caps. Do you take GUs during your marathon? I could see taking Hammer GU to avoid taking S-Caps. They have electrolytes.
I will go get the book.
Maybe it is as simple as drinking a cup of water per station and keep going. If my training was sufficient maybe that and one or two Hammer gels is all I need.
I don't use any fuel of fluids in training, except to test what I'll do on race day, or if I'm going to run for over 2 hours and the temps are over 75°F.
During a marathon, I do a gel every 45 minutes and alternate water and Gatorade at each water stop. This has worked for me.0 -
We don't know WHAT'S going on with women.
Could have just left it at that.
LOL! Well, what I have to say is that all the women I know say that modest use of electrolytes (like, one tab of Nuun during a marathon distance run) has made an enormous difference for them. And the women I run with get all swelly in the heat.... our fingers swell like sausages while the guys just don't.
But the OP seems to be a guy. You can never tell though.0 -
We don't know WHAT'S going on with women.
Could have just left it at that.
LOL! Well, what I have to say is that all the women I know say that modest use of electrolytes (like, one tab of Nuun during a marathon distance run) has made an enormous difference for them. And the women I run with get all swelly in the heat.... our fingers swell like sausages while the guys just don't.
But the OP seems to be a guy. You can never tell though.
Makes me wonder if it's not a placebo effect though. Like the studies that show just swishing Gatorade around in your mouth and spitting it out gives a performance boost.
The human body has to maintain homeostasis. If not, we die. Noakes research showed that, regardless of how many different, or what quantities of electrolytes were ingested, it had zero effect on homeostasis and that all the excess electrolytes just come out in the urine.0 -
I run ultra marathons in Texas. Most of us supplement electrolytes. I use Endurolytes because that's usually what they have at races at the aid stations, so I'm familiar with the dosage. Many people also love S!caps. I use these in addition to my electrolyte drink and energy gels. they don't replace those or food.
One thing I have to say is that I've NEVER had cramping b/c of electrolyte imbalance. what I have experienced is my drink/food sloshing in my stomach, dizziness, nausea, inexplicable muscle fatigue (during a race, at a time when I wouldn't expect it like 10 miles or something), confusion, and stumbling/lack of coordination. Adding Endurolytes to my race regimine has ended those occurrences.
My coach wrote an article about salt supplementation. In addition to being a coach and ultra runner, shes a scientist, and also Russian (so, keep in mind that English isn't her first language when reading). I hope this article helps.you.
http://endurancebuzz.com/2014/01/22/how-much-salt/0 -
I use Powerade electrolyte drops that I just add to my water. I don't usually start drinking until around 6-8k if it's a long run (I don't drink on runs that are shorter than that). They work great for me.0
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Current research points to two contributing factors to cramping:
1. Genetics
2. Asking muscle to do something they aren't properly trained and prepared for
There is no direct link to electrolytes or hydration as a cause of cramping.
This. I have had cramping due to electrolyte issues and GOOD GOD it is nothing like the cramping I have had in races. It was full body cramps with racing heart at 250 bpm+, etc. Put me in the hospital. I'm not saying it's impossible to have cramps due to electrolytes in a race, but it's more likely due to one of the issues quoted above.
If you want to try them out in races/long runs, it might be a good idea to get samples of a few different kinds and try them out - some people get upset stomachs from certain kinds, especially if they aren't taken with enough water. IIRC S-caps have more sodium and less potassium than Endurolytes, so I suppose it really depends on what you're after.0 -
I have had some serious calf cramp issues in my previous marathons and I have been looking at electrolyte supplements. Has anyone ever used them are they any good, any recommendations? Thanks
If you're having cramping problems (as I have) I would be surprised if it was because of an electrolyte imbalance.
Dr Noakes, in "The Lore of Running", discusses cramping in some detail and the first issue that he does away with is the impact on electrolytes. One very strong argument that he makes is that runners who have suffered from cramps do not show a lack of electrolytes. Second, if cramps were a function of low electrolytes, why would cramps occur only after exertion and primarily in the calf muscles? Finally, why do cramps generally disappear when the runner stops using the muscle and then massages the muscle without consuming any electrolytes?
The best theory that I've read, and it's an area of interest to me 'cause I've cramped on two Half Mary's with one being a DNF, is that we get cramps because the reflex action to allow a muscle to relax gets impaired through overuse, meaning that we get tired and our muscles contract but don't relax.
My strategy for dealing with cramps has been to change my training so that I'm spending more time running at higher speeds (closer to LT) than I was when I first started running. After cramping in August 2013 and then DNF'ing in October 2013 (I didn't have an HRM and went out waaay to fast), the combination of different training and more training (I'm still a new runner at just under 3 years), I was able to loaf through a Half in February and set a PR by 5 minutes.
Risk factors for exertional cramps - males, older runners, runners with a history of cramping.0 -
I run ultra marathons in Texas. Most of us supplement electrolytes. I use Endurolytes because that's usually what they have at races at the aid stations, so I'm familiar with the dosage. Many people also love S!caps. I use these in addition to my electrolyte drink and energy gels. they don't replace those or food.
One thing I have to say is that I've NEVER had cramping b/c of electrolyte imbalance. what I have experienced is my drink/food sloshing in my stomach, dizziness, nausea, inexplicable muscle fatigue (during a race, at a time when I wouldn't expect it like 10 miles or something), confusion, and stumbling/lack of coordination. Adding Endurolytes to my race regimine has ended those occurrences.
My coach wrote an article about salt supplementation. In addition to being a coach and ultra runner, shes a scientist, and also Russian (so, keep in mind that English isn't her first language when reading). I hope this article helps.you.
http://endurancebuzz.com/2014/01/22/how-much-salt/
Glad you added this to the conversation.
I'm reading this thinking about Crocodile Dundee - "Oy, that's not a knife — this is a knife!"
What you've described is not exertional cramping rather you're getting hit with a heat injury. Glad that you survived.0 -
I run ultra marathons in Texas. Most of us supplement electrolytes. I use Endurolytes because that's usually what they have at races at the aid stations, so I'm familiar with the dosage. Many people also love S!caps. I use these in addition to my electrolyte drink and energy gels. they don't replace those or food.
One thing I have to say is that I've NEVER had cramping b/c of electrolyte imbalance. what I have experienced is my drink/food sloshing in my stomach, dizziness, nausea, inexplicable muscle fatigue (during a race, at a time when I wouldn't expect it like 10 miles or something), confusion, and stumbling/lack of coordination. Adding Endurolytes to my race regimine has ended those occurrences.
My coach wrote an article about salt supplementation. In addition to being a coach and ultra runner, shes a scientist, and also Russian (so, keep in mind that English isn't her first language when reading). I hope this article helps.you.
http://endurancebuzz.com/2014/01/22/how-much-salt/
Glad you added this to the conversation.
I'm reading this thinking about Crocodile Dundee - "Oy, that's not a knife — this is a knife!"
What you've described is not exertional cramping rather you're getting hit with a heat injury. Glad that you survived.
ha ha ha, it wasn't life threatening but it sure wasn't pleasant. I have had that happen in cold races, too. My last 50 miler I was a disaster right from the get-go and it was snowing at the start. I have no idea why it happened, but by the time I got all the rest straightened out, my legs were trashed. but, usually it's the heat. It's hot here!
I do have a few friends who used to have cramping issues that ruined their races that are non-existent now that they supplement electrolytes.I realize that anecdotal reports don't alter statistical results, but they're much happier runners now.0 -
I know people who swear by pickle juice. Haven't done it myself, but those who use it, as I mentioned, swear by it.
Just sayin'...0 -
thank you all for the input. I know that I am looking for an easy out with my cramping but hopefully my training will keep the cramps away during my next full. :glasses:0
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As we push into the extreme levels of effort, I can understand that. When sweat losses run into double digits, it wouldn't surprise me if we needed more than just water but it's not an area where I've read any research. I did experience a sweat loss of 9 pounds when I was a teenager (I weighed about 155 pounds at the time) with no ill effects but I've also seen people keel over (pass out) when after just a few days in desert climates.
ha ha ha, it wasn't life threatening but it sure wasn't pleasant. I have had that happen in cold races, too. My last 50 miler I was a disaster right from the get-go and it was snowing at the start. I have no idea why it happened, but by the time I got all the rest straightened out, my legs were trashed. but, usually it's the heat. It's hot here!I run ultra marathons in Texas. Most of us supplement electrolytes. I use Endurolytes because that's usually what they have at races at the aid stations, so I'm familiar with the dosage. Many people also love S!caps. I use these in addition to my electrolyte drink and energy gels. they don't replace those or food.
One thing I have to say is that I've NEVER had cramping b/c of electrolyte imbalance. what I have experienced is my drink/food sloshing in my stomach, dizziness, nausea, inexplicable muscle fatigue (during a race, at a time when I wouldn't expect it like 10 miles or something), confusion, and stumbling/lack of coordination. Adding Endurolytes to my race regimine has ended those occurrences.
My coach wrote an article about salt supplementation. In addition to being a coach and ultra runner, shes a scientist, and also Russian (so, keep in mind that English isn't her first language when reading). I hope this article helps.you.
http://endurancebuzz.com/2014/01/22/how-much-salt/
Glad you added this to the conversation.
I'm reading this thinking about Crocodile Dundee - "Oy, that's not a knife — this is a knife!"
What you've described is not exertional cramping rather you're getting hit with a heat injury. Glad that you survived.
I do have a few friends who used to have cramping issues that ruined their races that are non-existent now that they supplement electrolytes.I realize that anecdotal reports don't alter statistical results, but they're much happier runners now.Running in snow and high heat - very hard core!
"cold" for me is the low 60's and we rarely get much into the 80's here. :-)0 -
I know people who swear by pickle juice. Haven't done it myself, but those who use it, as I mentioned, swear by it.
Just sayin'...
Pickle juice has been observe to stop muscle cramps as soon as the subject put it in their mouth! Very interesting study and another data point that adds credence to the theory that exertional cramping is neurological rather than chemical. It's discussed in Noakes' "The Lore of Running", IIRC.
Due to my history of calf cramping, I considered brining some with me for my Half in February but decided not to. Turns out I didn't need it. :-)0
