Should I be concerned with push versus pull distribution?
MyIdaho54
Posts: 81 Member
I do the following pull exercises 3x/week: deadlift, BB rows, seated low rows, lat pulldown
I do the following push exercises 3x/week: BW squats, leg presses, triceps pulldowns, bench press
Due to a recovering shoulder injury, my bench press has been greatly reduced and I am wondering potential imbalances in training. For example, I do two sets of lat pulldowns and seated rows at 100 pounds/rep. Bench is down to 60 pounds due to the weak shoulder. Any concerns over the push/pull distribution and load differences?
I do the following push exercises 3x/week: BW squats, leg presses, triceps pulldowns, bench press
Due to a recovering shoulder injury, my bench press has been greatly reduced and I am wondering potential imbalances in training. For example, I do two sets of lat pulldowns and seated rows at 100 pounds/rep. Bench is down to 60 pounds due to the weak shoulder. Any concerns over the push/pull distribution and load differences?
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Replies
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If you are a beginner lifter you should do All Pro's Simple beginners routine as written. It is designed to be balanced and suitable for the beginner.
Personally I don't find myself qualified to give feedback on your routine, especially because there are some medical issues involved. Perhaps discuss it with your physical therapist?0 -
Come on Pandora... It's softball season, take a swing at it!
My question was probably too specific. I am mostly just wondering how critical it is to match push vs pull exercises and what the potential impacts are if you're stronger at one type of exercise than another.0 -
Generally speaking I would certainly aim at a balanced workout routine. If you're stronger at one type of exercise than another and don' t at least try to lessen the gap between them, the discrepancy can in time only become bigger. This in turn increases the chance of injury...0
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Chiming in a little late, but agreed w/ Pandora's advice to seek balance. ;-)
One thing you'll notice about SBR Is that it tends to alternate upper/lower body focus from one exercise to the next, although there's a clear focus on compound exercises, and there's also a good balance between push and pull across the routine.
In general, I've found it works best to maintain that alternating sequence from upper/lower and push/pull. As far as potential impacts, not keeping some push/pull balance will eventually cause undue stress on tendons & joints, especially when you're pushing heavy weight.
As for your shoulder, you didn't say what's going on -- and I'm also not qualified to give any sort of professional advice -- but, having dealt with bursitis, rotator cuff issues & arthritis in my shoulders, I definitely recommend that you make time for focused strengthening & flexibility exercises, and make REALLY sure your form is spot on when trying any sort of bench press.
Check out "So you think you can bench" on YouTube if you haven't already. The form discussed in that series has really helped me get back to benching without (too much) pain.0 -
Chiming in a little late, but agreed w/ Pandora's advice to seek balance. ;-)
One thing you'll notice about SBR Is that it tends to alternate upper/lower body focus from one exercise to the next, although there's a clear focus on compound exercises, and there's also a good balance between push and pull across the routine.
In general, I've found it works best to maintain that alternating sequence from upper/lower and push/pull. As far as potential impacts, not keeping some push/pull balance will eventually cause undue stress on tendons & joints, especially when you're pushing heavy weight.
As for your shoulder, you didn't say what's going on -- and I'm also not qualified to give any sort of professional advice -- but, having dealt with bursitis, rotator cuff issues & arthritis in my shoulders, I definitely recommend that you make time for focused strengthening & flexibility exercises, and make REALLY sure your form is spot on when trying any sort of bench press.
Check out "So you think you can bench" on YouTube if you haven't already. The form discussed in that series has really helped me get back to benching without (too much) pain.
I feel the same way about the whole 'push/pull' balance thing. That said, what balances out the vertical push in this routine?
I'm thinking of omitting the Curl and inputting some Lat Pull-down's. My physio and many articles/videos that I've read/watched, state that back exercises play a big roll in shoulder stability. Which is something i need to focus on.0 -
If I'm being honest, most beginners don't need to worry about this.
You could build a balanced routine around just
Power clean, Squat and Overhead Press - you could run that for a year, 3 x week and get your lifts up and you'd be fine. You'd be more than fine, in fact. You probably be miles ahead of the majority of people out there.
If you're intermediate and you are being held back on a lift due to something lagging, then you can add in something specific to you to bring it up. Beginner's just need to show up several times a week and do the work in all honesty.
AP's is a good routine that has some aesthetically designed leanings (hence the curls and calf raises). But if you strip out that stuff, it's just the basics. The good ole' fashioned basics that have been making people stronger for a good while.
Run the routine as it is for 4-5 cycles. Keep getting stronger, keep adding weight. Eat to support the activity, etc. Everybody who sticks with it for a while and runs it properly gets good results. I've only ever seen complaints from perennial programme hoppers (and nothing can save them anyway, tbh)0 -
If I'm being honest, most beginners don't need to worry about this.
You could build a balanced routine around just
Power clean, Squat and Overhead Press - you could run that for a year, 3 x week and get your lifts up and you'd be fine. You'd be more than fine, in fact. You probably be miles ahead of the majority of people out there.
If you're intermediate and you are being held back on a lift due to something lagging, then you can add in something specific to you to bring it up. Beginner's just need to show up several times a week and do the work in all honesty.
AP's is a good routine that has some aesthetically designed leanings (hence the curls and calf raises). But if you strip out that stuff, it's just the basics. The good ole' fashioned basics that have been making people stronger for a good while.
Run the routine as it is for 4-5 cycles. Keep getting stronger, keep adding weight. Eat to support the activity, etc. Everybody who sticks with it for a while and runs it properly gets good results. I've only ever seen complaints from perennial programme hoppers (and nothing can save them anyway, tbh)
Thanks.
I had intended to follow the routine to a 'T', but with the shoulder issues, it's important that i focus more on the pulling exercises. Which is why I've opted for the pulldowns rather than curls. This way i somewhat hit both areas of importance in one exercise. Back primary and biceps secondary.
Would this not be advised for this routine? Considering my shoulder issue?0 -
If I'm being honest, most beginners don't need to worry about this.
You could build a balanced routine around just
Power clean, Squat and Overhead Press - you could run that for a year, 3 x week and get your lifts up and you'd be fine. You'd be more than fine, in fact. You probably be miles ahead of the majority of people out there.
If you're intermediate and you are being held back on a lift due to something lagging, then you can add in something specific to you to bring it up. Beginner's just need to show up several times a week and do the work in all honesty.
AP's is a good routine that has some aesthetically designed leanings (hence the curls and calf raises). But if you strip out that stuff, it's just the basics. The good ole' fashioned basics that have been making people stronger for a good while.
Run the routine as it is for 4-5 cycles. Keep getting stronger, keep adding weight. Eat to support the activity, etc. Everybody who sticks with it for a while and runs it properly gets good results. I've only ever seen complaints from perennial programme hoppers (and nothing can save them anyway, tbh)
Thanks.
I had intended to follow the routine to a 'T', but with the shoulder issues, it's important that i focus more on the pulling exercises. Which is why I've opted for the pulldowns rather than curls. This way i somewhat hit both areas of importance in one exercise. Back primary and biceps secondary.
Would this not be advised for this routine? Considering my shoulder issue?
Well, I'm not a doctor...
... having said that, I've got a messed up shoulder (I've dislocated it something like 10/11 times in 24 years). I ran this routine for 8/9 months after I came back from my last injury. It actually made my shoulder better in every conceivable way (I haven't even had a twinge in it since doing All Pro's) - the caveats being:
1) I am not you/my shoulder is not your shoulder.
2) I progressed the weights sensibly on OHP/Bench (i.e. according to a schedule I thought I could cope with)
3) I strove for impeccable form on every lift over weight on the bar (and left my ego at the door of the weightroom).
And no, subbing in lat pull downs instead of curls won't kill you. All Pro only included curls since he thought bros would just ask him about them and want to do them anyway. He originally had upright rows in there (which give some people, me included, shoulder issues...). I ran it with chin ups after the 2nd cycle, so lat pulls are definitely doable.
My advice is to try it.
But I would also point out (to anyone who may be reading the thread and think the routine is in some sense "unbalanced") that people often think that they know better than All Pro, Bret Contreras, Mark Rippetoe, etc... but these guys all understand programming and there's a reason why their routines are popular, proven and still being done. Once you can heft significant amounts in proportion to your bodyweight, then you are outside the realm of cookie-cutter and into personalised (a caveat is someone with significant medical issues, who will need something to be customised from the start)0
