This is exactly why I love this group! You are all offering such fantastic support, comments and ideas

I definitely have too many goals to focus on all of them at once, that's a very good point, and I love how being awesome is part of both choose your own adventures lol, ending in a horrible death is not my idea of a good time

I like girlie's idea of dropping the 1RM, and krok brings up a good point about Wendler's maybe not being the best program to be on a cut on as well.

I'm not really sure how many pounds I want to lose per say, but I've been told that I need to be sub 20% body fat to even begin cut/bulk cycles, which is my end goal. In order to get below 20%, that's probably a good 20 pounds below what I am now. I do like the idea of a small deficit, I was running TDEE-15% (or trying to), but the hangry crazed fits have definitely been throwing my deficit out of whack in the last couple of months.

My TDEE is 2250, and I was eating between 1700-1800, well trying to anyway lol. On my hangry days (my lifting days), I was easily eating 2600-3000 calories over the course of the day and not getting any sort of full, which explains my 4 pound weight gain over the last 2 months. I guess I've been "bulking"?

The main reason I switched from SL to Wendlers was I was stalling even after I went 3 x 5 on the volume, and I couldn't handle squats 3x a week. Interestingly enough, when I stalled initially on SL, I wasn't getting the crazed hangry fits like I do now, because my weights weren't as high, even though I was doing a higher volume.

I like Wendlers because I get to concentrate on that one compound lift each session, but I'm definitely not opposed to switching to something new, or changing up the volume on what I'm currently doing. I've been wanting to incorporate more bodyweight training, aside from the dips, chins and pullups, so maybe I could use some of those as the accessories instead of the traditional ones. I saw a Wendlers variation that had bodyweight exercises as the assistance work, and I could maybe put some of that into play.

Krok, I've been following your programs closely, I like them, I'm just not sure I could handle the intensity, you're a super machine! I like the idea of barbell complexes, and I hate circuits but I know they work well so I would do them anyway

For diet, I've been doing 10:14 IF daily split, so I don't eat my first meal until around 11 AM, and then I stop eating around 9 PM, and that was working well for a while, just not so well anymore. I'm still not hungry in the morning, but I just can't seem to stop myself from overeating at night after the gym, which I usually go around 4-5 PM and stay for 60-90 min.

My pre-workout meal is pretty much always the same thing, which is greek yogurt, cottage cheese and raspberries, and it seems to give me enough protein and carbs to get through a 60-90 min session, and when I don't start eating until 11 AM, my meals are spaced more closely together so I'm usually not hungry while I'm at the gym. After I get home is another story lol.

I've never tried Madcow, but I think if/when I ever get to a bulking stage I might

I did (admittedly halfheartedly) try 5:2, but I always ended up overeating on my very low calorie days. It's a good suggestion though, I've been considering doing a modified version of it where I eat less on my resting or cardio only days so I can eat more on my lifting days, and that might make a difference.

I completely agree that lifting is mental Really, I'm probably psyching myself out a lot of times because it just feels like I can't do it, but if I push, I probably could. I've been lifting off and on since Feb 2012 (took a couple of breaks for injuries), and I think I'm just finally reaching my actual maxes, I've beat all of my PRs from before my injuries in the last couple years.

I do one hiking session or long slow run each week, and that definitely makes me less hungry than lifting or HIIT. Depending on the intensity of the hike, it can make me hungry, but most of the time it doesn't. I think I've been trying to outrun the amount of food I'm eating, and it isn't working, what do they say about not being able to out-exercise a bad diet?

I've also really been struggling to get my protein in, I crave carbs when I do any type of cardio session. I actually lowered my protein goal in March, and I've raised it up again now, it's definitely a factor in controlling my hunger.

The first thing I'd look at now that I read your second reply would be to leave your nutrient timing roughly the same as it is now and put your focus into your food selection specifically post workout. Admittedly I didn't go through your entire diary but I took a poke through about a week or so and I think you should consider increasing your vegetable consumption and for lack of a better way to put this (can't believe I'm about to go here) I'd eat more "clean foods" (FFS I went there).

LOL! I snorted when I read that! I will do that, I've been having adherence issues in the past couple of months, so that's something I definitely need to work on.

Finally regarding the training performance, the part I'm trying to get a better understanding of would be this -- you mention missing lifts all the time when being in a deficit, but you also mention that you're really in a slight surplus based on the results of the past two months.

I dropped down to 1570 calories only since Monday (out of pure frustration and the fact that I have a wedding to attend in 2 weeks and no longer fit into my dress :grumble: ). I lifted on Monday, Tuesday and Wednesday, and I failed every single day on my final sets.

Pre-shoulder injury last year (Jan-May 2013), I was eating at a steady 1600 calories per day (and adhering pretty decently, although I was still hangry all the time) and failing my lifts then as well. That's why I switched to Wendlers in January 2014, after doing SL for 3 months when I got clearance to lift again.

The last 2 months I've been eating an average of 2600 calories every day (protein has been too low) and I've seen PRs on all of my lifts except for OHP, but I've also gained 4 pounds.

The first thing I'd look at now that I read your second reply would be to leave your nutrient timing roughly the same as it is now and put your focus into your food selection specifically post workout. Admittedly I didn't go through your entire diary but I took a poke through about a week or so and I think you should consider increasing your vegetable consumption and for lack of a better way to put this (can't believe I'm about to go here) I'd eat more "clean foods" (FFS I went there).

LOL! I snorted when I read that! I will do that, I've been having adherence issues in the past couple of months, so that's something I definitely need to work on.

Finally regarding the training performance, the part I'm trying to get a better understanding of would be this -- you mention missing lifts all the time when being in a deficit, but you also mention that you're really in a slight surplus based on the results of the past two months.

I dropped down to 1570 calories only since Monday (out of pure frustration and the fact that I have a wedding to attend in 2 weeks and no longer fit into my dress :grumble: ). I lifted on Monday, Tuesday and Wednesday, and I failed every single day on my final sets.

Pre-shoulder injury last year (Jan-May 2013), I was eating at a steady 1600 calories per day (and adhering pretty decently, although I was still hangry all the time) and failing my lifts then as well. That's why I switched to Wendlers in January 2014, after doing SL for 3 months when I got clearance to lift again.

The last 2 months I've been eating an average of 2600 calories every day (protein has been too low) and I've seen PRs on all of my lifts except for OHP, but I've also gained 4 pounds.

What was your rate of change in weight when you were on 1600 calories and what was your weight?

Have you followed Wendler's deload procedure when you started missing lifts and if so, what happened? Sorry if you already answered this earlier in the thread.

I was losing half a pound a week, and I was anywhere from 140-145 pounds, and now I'm steady around 153.

Sorry, last year I was doing stronglifts, and I was following the deload procedure that the app did automatically for me. I would stall on my fourth and fifth sets typically, and work my way back up and then re-stall on the same sets at the same weight. I did videos and for my squats I had form issues and once I got those sorted out, my squats went up by maybe ten pounds before I stalled again. Then I got injured and had to stop lifting completely from May to Sept, and restarted in Sept 2013 and worked my way back up to my current level.

I would love to see how this progresses and what you finally decide to do.

Just curious, how tall are you?

I'm 5'3 on a good day Actually, funny fact, I measured myself after doing squats one day, and I was 5'2.5", but then the next morning I was 5'3 again. Weird hey?

The first thing I'd look at now that I read your second reply would be to leave your nutrient timing roughly the same as it is now and put your focus into your food selection specifically post workout. Admittedly I didn't go through your entire diary but I took a poke through about a week or so and I think you should consider increasing your vegetable consumption and for lack of a better way to put this (can't believe I'm about to go here) I'd eat more "clean foods" (FFS I went there).

LOL! I snorted when I read that! I will do that, I've been having adherence issues in the past couple of months, so that's something I definitely need to work on.

Finally regarding the training performance, the part I'm trying to get a better understanding of would be this -- you mention missing lifts all the time when being in a deficit, but you also mention that you're really in a slight surplus based on the results of the past two months.

I dropped down to 1570 calories only since Monday (out of pure frustration and the fact that I have a wedding to attend in 2 weeks and no longer fit into my dress :grumble: ). I lifted on Monday, Tuesday and Wednesday, and I failed every single day on my final sets.

Pre-shoulder injury last year (Jan-May 2013), I was eating at a steady 1600 calories per day (and adhering pretty decently, although I was still hangry all the time) and failing my lifts then as well. That's why I switched to Wendlers in January 2014, after doing SL for 3 months when I got clearance to lift again.

The last 2 months I've been eating an average of 2600 calories every day (protein has been too low) and I've seen PRs on all of my lifts except for OHP, but I've also gained 4 pounds.

What was your rate of change in weight when you were on 1600 calories and what was your weight?

Have you followed Wendler's deload procedure when you started missing lifts and if so, what happened? Sorry if you already answered this earlier in the thread.

I was losing half a pound a week, and I was anywhere from 140-145 pounds, and now I'm steady around 153.

Sorry, last year I was doing stronglifts, and I was following the deload procedure that the app did automatically for me. I would stall on my fourth and fifth sets typically, and work my way back up and then re-stall on the same sets at the same weight. I did videos and for my squats I had form issues and once I got those sorted out, my squats went up by maybe ten pounds before I stalled again. Then I got injured and had to stop lifting completely from May to Sept, and restarted in Sept 2013 and worked my way back up to my current level.

On average can you list out your nutrient timing followed by when you train? Doesn't need to be exact but for example if you fast and train completely fasted, vs having some calories pre training/etc.

Can I get a very general timeline and also does this change when you are in a caloric surplus or at maintenance vs being in a deficit?

Sure thing I run a 10:16 IF split, so it looks like this:

First meal: between 10:30-11:30 AM ~550 calories

Second meal: 1 hour before lifting. This meal is pretty much the same thing all the time, and is 300 calories/33G protein/26G carbs/8G fat. My work schedule is variable, but lately this has been around 4 PM, and weight training happens between 5-6:30 PM.

Third meal: When I get home from the gym, usually around 7 PM.

Fourth meal (Snack/Dessert/Wine): Usually around 9 PM.

Bedtime is 10:30 PM and I get up at 5:30-6:30 typically.

I eat between 800-1000 calories during the day before weight training, and the rest of the calories I have for the day I eat in the evening for my third meal and snack.

This is pretty consistent when I'm in a deficit or a surplus, and when I'm at maintenance or in a surplus, I just eat more in the evening.

I have tried training fasted, I have days where I can only fit my training in the morning before work, but those sessions never go well, I start to shake about 30-45 minutes in if I don't eat anything beforehand.

ETA: I'm not sure if you meant my actual lifting schedule, but this is what I do:

Monday: Squat 5/3/1 and assistance work and 4 min Tabata

Tuesday: 5 km run or hill sprints/stairs for 30 min

Wednesday: Bench press 5/3/1 and assistance work

Thursday: Off

Friday: OHP/Deadlift 5/3/1 and assistance work

Saturday: hiking or 10km run

The cardio changes depending on how much energy I have each week. Sometimes I'll throw in the sprints or a run after a lifting day instead of doing it the following day, and some weeks I add in more rest days.

My lifting schedule is pretty consistent though at 3x a week for 60-90 min.