Picking My Priority: Strength Gain or Fat Loss
Replies
-
On average can you list out your nutrient timing followed by when you train? Doesn't need to be exact but for example if you fast and train completely fasted, vs having some calories pre training/etc.
Can I get a very general timeline and also does this change when you are in a caloric surplus or at maintenance vs being in a deficit?
While you're here... can you share some resources about nutrition timing? I was always under the impression that it doesn't matter when you eat . I never time my food. I just eat. I always lift in the evening (8-9ish) and my last meal is always around 5:30. I never eat afterwards. Does that effect lifts?
This is a rather controversial topic in that you have a variety of reasons that people may claim that nutrient timing is important:
1) Sports performance
2) Body composition purposes
3) Glycogen replenishment
I'm of the belief that we don't have enough concrete data to conclusively say that there's an optimal nutrient timing method for #2. We have data pointing towards some potential benefits to protein timing although we can't say specifically how large that "anabolic window" is. See here: http://www.jissn.com/content/10/1/53
Regarding Glycogen replenishment, I believe most of the research was done on endurance athletes so we also can't conclude that your average person on a 1-per-day exercise program is in need of rapid glycogen replenishment. Most training programs aren't fully glycogen depleting and in addition, most people will not need full glycogen stores intra-day. As long as you eat a meal or two between training bouts it's very likely to be a non issue. See here: http://www.jissn.com/content/10/1/5
So we're really left with nutrient timing's effects on performance. There seems to be a collective thought around it also not making a difference but at this moment, based purely on anecdote, I'm going to say this is an individual matter entirely. My performance goes in the tank training fasted once I pass about 30-45 minutes. Whether this is placebo or not does not matter as the end result is me lifting less weight, possibly developing light headedness due to low blood sugar, and potentially getting a migraine.
In conclusion, I wouldn't say that everyone needs to follow a specific nutrient timing procedure. I also wouldn't say that nutrient timing "doesn't matter". I would say that the individual should utilize a nutrient timing procedure that maximizes performance, maximizes the opportunity to match up to lifestyle factors, and maximizes overall enjoyment of the diet (ie personal preference). Trying to manipulate nutrient timing to achieve specific body composition effects isn't "irrelevant" but I'd label it as secondary to the previously mentioned factors in the majority of the population/contexts. (EDIT: Without specifically saying it, satiety is fundamentally important and I'd include being satiated as falling under the personal preference bracket).
A contest level bodybuilder who is attempting to sneak out an additional 1-2% progress (I pulled that number out of my *kitten*) may want to maximize theoretical benefits to specific nutrient timing methods.0 -
Not to detract from Rugby, but I think I know what I'm going to try and do... This whole process is trial an error anyway, so I might as well stick with that train of thought and do some more trialing!
I'm going to use June as the month that I focus more on the fat loss and deficit. I'm going to stick to a lighter weight with my lifts (I de-loaded last week/this week anyway and I'm going on vacation next week and will not have access to weights) and increase my reps. Once I can do 3x10 of each SL move comfortably/with damn good form, then I will increase the weight. So I may be stuck at 135lbs for my squats for a little while, but really, 135lbs is still heavy so I'm ok with that!
Based on my results at the end of June, that will determine if I want to continue with the same path or if I want to focus more on the lifts and less on the deficit for July. I may even alternate between the two different paths each month for a few months and see what happens! So for June, I'll still be lifting heavy, just INTENTIONALLY not progressing as quickly.0 -
Sure thing
I run a 10:16 IF split, so it looks like this:
You have 26 hour days? Color me jelly!0 -
Sure thing I run a 10:16 IF split, so it looks like this:
You have 26 hour days? Color me jelly!
OMG! Man, I can't add today, 10:14 lol0 -
Definitely need to tag!!!0
-
Just want to follow along b/c I know I will find myself in the same situation at some point.0
-
Hi All! Thanks again to everyone that's weighed in on this, and I think I've got a plan now
Food-wise, I'm sticking to my 1570 limit until Sunday. I know it's too low, but I need that damn dress to fit because I'm house poor and can't afford a new one to wear to the wedding, and it fits again even now (tightly, but I can get it zipped now).
After Sunday, I'm fairly certain my TDEE is sitting at roughly 2250, so I'm going to set my calorie goal at a flat 1800, which is TDEE-20%.
I'm going to make a better effort to eat at the 80/20 rule, where I can still have my ice cream and alcohol, just in smaller quantities. I think that's where many of you were leading me with your questions, that I might have better luck controlling my appetite if I'm eating higher protein and more whole, satiating foods, like veggies instead of ice cream and popcorn, which I have a tendency to binge on anyway and still leave me hungry.
For training, I have 2 weeks left on this Wendler's cycle, so I'm going to keep going as is with it.
I really like Wendler's so I think I'm going to stick with his program and follow his deload procedures, which means that next round I'm deloading on squats and OHP (I've failed twice on both now at my current weight), and I'm going to change up the assistance work to a complimentary body weight program I found that works with Wendler's. I change up the assistance work once every 3 rounds anyway, so it's time to do it again, since I'm heading into Round 7.
Krok, I really like your idea of circuits/torture programs as a finisher, and I could add in one session like that on my bench day (it's my least exhausting lifting day) and possibly more, if I have the energy after my other lifting days. What are your thoughts on a kick my *kitten* circuit I could do for 10 min or so at the end of a lifting session?
I have a 5km obstacle course run coming up at the end of July, so I'm open to any ideas that can kick my endurance up a notch, and it sounds like those circuits, along with the Tabata and stairs I already do, could work just fine
ETA: This is my plan for the next 6 weeks, and then after that I'm going to re-evaluate where I'm at in the lifting and hunger, and change things up again. To get sub 20% BF, I need to be below 130 pounds, so once I hit below 145, I'll probably drop to TDEE-15% and stay there until I hit goal BF%.0 -
Krok, I really like your idea of circuits/torture programs as a finisher, and I could add in one session like that on my bench day (it's my least exhausting lifting day) and possibly more, if I have the energy after my other lifting days. What are your thoughts on a kick my *kitten* circuit I could do for 10 min or so at the end of a lifting session?
Do you have access to a Kettlebell? How do you feel about burpees? My all time "favorite" (this is not the right term for this but it's as close to it as I could come. I love to hate getting through this one) is one I call the Swinging Burpee Burnout. A reverse ladder of HEAVY KB swings vs burpees. So 10 swings, 1 burpee, 9 swings, 2 burpees, all the way to 1 swing, 10 burpees. I think my best time for this was just shy of 10 minutes with a 40lbs KB.
At work now so I don't have access to my gym log or anything atm, but I'll get back to you on more of these. Some are incredibly simple, as you can see! I find it's best to rotate through them some to have different "challenges" so to speak from one workout to another.
And yay, obstacle race! I got one in less than 2 weeks and i'm super excited/freaked out about it haha. I'll let you know how it goes!0 -
rugby if it's a little snug that's what spanks are for...not the fun spanks those nasty assed spanks all women seem to have a set of.0
-
Do you have access to a Kettlebell? How do you feel about burpees?
And yay, obstacle race! I got one in less than 2 weeks and i'm super excited/freaked out about it haha. I'll let you know how it goes!
Lol you probably don't want to know what my actual feelings are about burpees :bigsmile: but I know they're good for me, and I love that circuit, that sounds like a perfect kick my *kitten* session and I do have access to kettlebells
Awesome! Definitely let me know how it goes!rugby if it's a little snug that's what spanks are for...not the fun spanks those nasty assed spanks all women seem to have a set of.
Stef, that's a very good point I don't have a set but my sis does that I can borrow if that's what it comes down to, I just hate not being able to breathe in them lol 0 -
edit0
-
I think running 531 with a deficit is WAY easier than madcow on a deficit. :laugh: But I'm only just finishing my first cycle this week so that may change.
I have a really hard time with this whole thing as well. I quit smoking 4.5 years ago and have yo-yo'd up and down quite a bit since then as I had replaced cigarettes with food. I'm still working on fully getting rid of that habit although I'm loads better now. I started lifting in Dec 12 and I was at my highest weight of 207. In all of 2013 I only lost 14 lbs. I was at my lowest in 8/2013. Then I ended up doing an unintentional bulk at the end of 2013 while getting ready for my first meet,and I'm only now getting back to that low. I have troubles even with a small deficit. Even something like 300 calories (which is TDEE-12% for me) makes me hangry and always miserable. The weight loss is just SO SLOW, and the weights still feel SO HEAVY. I'm competing so it's harder for me personally to just say "eff gains," but I knew I finally had to stop giving myself gains as an excuse and buckle down this year. I know it's not just will power either as I was fine eating a deficit and losing constantly when I just did cardio. Lifting seems to just unleash something in me. Rawr. It's nice to hear I'm not alone though :laugh: Here are random thoughts about what I've found have worked for me. With the for me being the important part. Everyone has different things that work for them, but if you hear enough things eventually you can copy one that works for you.
-I started 5:2 intermittent fasting 3 and a half weeks ago. I was already eating at a deficit, so I know it's not all water, and I"ve lost 4 lbs so far. I have tons more energy on lifting days, and feel like I'm lifting at maintenance. The downside is only having 500 calories 2 days a week. It's easier for me to feel like I'm not eating enough 2 days a week than 7 though.
-Lifting is mental. It feels heavier while you're on a cut, but that doesn't mean you can't do it. Sometimes you really will stall, but I think a lot of times we tell ourselves it's impossible. I've made decent strength gains on a cut even after lifting for a year. The higher the cut though the slower the gains, but you can still get them!- just to echo others' posts.
-LISS (Low intensity steady state) really helps me increase calorie burn without feeling hungry. Yes I'm that fat girl everyone complains about on the forums strolling along on the arc trainer, or doing a slow pedal on the bike while watching netflix. I'm down for HIIT and a nice jog, but they can definitely make me feel hungrier.
guess i should actually click on the quote button.
Tree, you are so awesome and smart and make so much sense!! I'm so glad we're already friends! 0 -
follow to find later0
