Half in sept, marathon in Dec?
pmur
Posts: 223 Member
Hi all,
I'm a new runner. I started in Dec with Couch to 5k. Completed that in nine weeks and did 3miles twice and 2 miles once a week for a few weeks. Late April I started 10k training with Hal Higdon's plan. I ran my first 5k last month(34 mins) and am running my first 10k on Sunday. I can run the entire 10k if I pace myself at the beginning of the race(around 12 mins). My running mate is also at the same level as me. We are planning to start Hal Higdon's novice 1 HM plan next week. We have identified a HM end of sept which works well within the timeframe. We also wanted to continue training and run a full which is exactly 12 weeks after the HM in December. Will we be able to do it. Most full marathon plans have 18-20 weeks of training. Are we being too ambitious? Can anyone suggest a good plan for us to follow? Can we do Hals novice 1 plan for the full starting at week 9 after our HM? Please suggest.
I'm a new runner. I started in Dec with Couch to 5k. Completed that in nine weeks and did 3miles twice and 2 miles once a week for a few weeks. Late April I started 10k training with Hal Higdon's plan. I ran my first 5k last month(34 mins) and am running my first 10k on Sunday. I can run the entire 10k if I pace myself at the beginning of the race(around 12 mins). My running mate is also at the same level as me. We are planning to start Hal Higdon's novice 1 HM plan next week. We have identified a HM end of sept which works well within the timeframe. We also wanted to continue training and run a full which is exactly 12 weeks after the HM in December. Will we be able to do it. Most full marathon plans have 18-20 weeks of training. Are we being too ambitious? Can anyone suggest a good plan for us to follow? Can we do Hals novice 1 plan for the full starting at week 9 after our HM? Please suggest.
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Based on my own personal experience, I think that's pretty ambitious. As a new runner, I went from my first half marathon to my first full marathon in 6 months (about one year from first 5K to full marathon) and it was a big miserable mistake. I had overuse issues and other problems that I didn't recognize because I was an inexperienced runner. In addition, my muscles weren't strong enough to recover adequately between long runs after the runs got to about 18 miles. I would recommend doing a few half marathons and getting more experience under your belt before moving on to your first marathon; 12 weeks is not much time from your first half to your first marathon. That's just my own experience though. I know others have done it without problems.
For training programs: I used Hal Higdon's novice one for both the half and full marathon. I'm training for my second full marathon now with Matt Fizgerald's plan.
Best of luck in whatever you decide to do.0 -
Doable but very ambitious. I would say if you do both you should not do either one at a hard (for you) pace. Rough rule of thumb is you need one day of recovery for every mile run. Basically you will want at least two easy weeks after a full effort half which means only 10 to train for the full. Now, that is doable as the half gets you a good ways along with training. But my other concern is that you would be ramping miles pretty quick so higher chance of injury. Another saying is "it is easy to run a marathon if you can survive the training." If it were me I would push out a bit farther for a marathon but it is doable0
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I'm a fairly new runner as well (started in January) and I'm being moderately cautious with bumping up my race distance. I've already run 3 5Ks and one 10K. My next big race is a 10 miler in October though I have some 5K's and another 10K scheduled before then. My plan is to run my first half next February and my first marathon in January 2016. Houston has a nice marathon warm up series. A half in October, a 25K in November, and a 30K in December. I don't think I'm ready for that this year (at least not to run them as fast as I'd like) but by the time my first marathon comes around, I'll have 3-4 half marathons, a 25K, and a 30K under my belt which should make me a hell of a lot more prepared than if I tried to run one this year.
The marathon is a big undertaking for a lot of people. They televise the Houston Marathon on local TV every year. And every year you see people who say they watched it on TV the previous year and that it motivated them to run. That's good, but for many, they've been running for less than a year and the marathon is their first race. Only about 54% of the 13,000 marathon participants finish within the 6 hour time limit. And Houston is known for having an easy, flat course. Sadly, most of those 5,000 runners that don't finish are probably first timers who had been running less than a year. IMO, it's a large undertaking for a relative beginner. If you want to run it and ENJOY it, you better make sure you're prepared and ready. At least that's the approach I'm taking with it.
I like the way I'm progressing and I think I could run a marathon in Jan/Feb (when they typically happen here in Houston), but I don't necessarily think it's the wisest option.0 -
As others have stated, I think it is possible to do both races, but whether or not it's enjoyable is an entirely different matter.
Marathon training is hard on you, and not just physically. It's hard mental discipline. You may end up burning yourself out, even if you don't end up with physical injuries.
Having said that, if you're super motivated and think you can be in reasonably fit shape and are willing to finish it even if it means you have to crawl across the line, then do it
Good luck.0 -
I wouldn't have done it, but, that's just me.
It took me a year of running to do my first HM, and I didn't even know if I was ready to do that.
Once I completed it, and had a great experience running it, I knew that I wanted to do another one. And for the first time in that year of saying - I can't imagine doing a full, I actually thought that it was something I'd like to train for.
I've been training since January 1st for my upcoming full, and I completed my 2nd HM in early May - leaving about 6 weeks between the two events.
If this is something you want to do. I would suggest using the Hal Higdon Novice 1 Marathon training plan, as it calls for a HM race as part of the plan. Just rework the plan a bit to fit that HM in there.
Personally though, I'd do the HM first, and maybe leave the full for another year.0 -
Would you rather 5-6 hour marathon in December or run a fast 5k-10k in December? Why a marathon? You can do whatever you want but personally, running a 5+ hour marathon sounds like torture not only at the event but in training.
Personally, I didn't think of running a marathon until in an hour I could comfortable cover 7.5 miles. It's just too time consuming. I'd rather see results like a huge drop in 5k or 10k time if I was in your shoes. But that's just me.0 -
Will you be able to do it? Yes, assuming you can make it through the training without getting banged up.
Will you have fun? If you consider 5+ hours on your feet "fun" then yes, oodles of it. The dynamic of it really changes at that elapsed time because you're bordering on an average ultramarathon time, and will probably need more nutrition than the course has to offer. That means carrying crap on you. No thanks (IMO).
One 4:30 marathon was enough for me personally. I'm not running another until I'm confident I can run it between 3:30-3:45, and that's why I'm waiting an entire year to do another from my first and only marathon. However, many people run (or run/walk) and enjoy the marathon distance. If I were at your pace, I'd just rock the half marathons.0 -
Thank you all so much for the FB! I'm going to stick to the HMs until I know I can comfortably run a full!
Like someone suggested, running a few 5/10ks after the HM and do it fast sounds like much more fun!
I'll suggest this to my friend. Thank you all, once again!0 -
Thank you all so much for the FB! I'm going to stick to the HMs until I know I can comfortably run a full!
Like someone suggested, running a few 5/10ks after the HM and do it fast sounds like much more fun!
I'll suggest this to my friend. Thank you all, once again!
Ohh trust me live up the 5k & 10k PRs.. They are money in the bank when you start training for long distances. Being faster is always more fun no matter the distance0 -
Thank you all so much for the FB! I'm going to stick to the HMs until I know I can comfortably run a full!
Like someone suggested, running a few 5/10ks after the HM and do it fast sounds like much more fun!
I'll suggest this to my friend. Thank you all, once again!
It took me a few years to get the courage to train for a marathon. I would see how you feel running the half and go from there. Some people run a half and say hell yeah I want do a marathon others like myself wanted more experience before making that leap.0 -
Thank you all so much for the FB! I'm going to stick to the HMs until I know I can comfortably run a full!
That's like waiting until you're ready to have kids.
I kid! Sorta...running a marathon is really never going to be comfortable. It's a huge challenge for every level of runner. The only exception might be those Marathon Maniacs who run some of their marathons at their easy run pace.0 -
Can you do it? Yes, you probably can.
Should you do it? Maybe... if you are smart about your training and continue the ramp up to the marathon, you stand a good chance of not hitting any major road blocks.
For me, I started C25K in January 2012... and had a very similar trajectory. 5K race in March, 10K race in July, 10 mile race in August and my first HM in September, second HM in November 2012 - with a 15 minute faster time.
I knew that I wanted to run a full, but after much deliberation, I decided that it could wait until I had more experience in running.
2013 was the year of the HM for me - I ran three more HMs - none as fast as November 2012, but I learned something from all of them, and by the end of the year finally felt confident that I could handle the full.
I'm slow, so it is still going to be a LONG haul day for me. I expect I will be north of 5:00 - if I come in under 5:30, I'll be VERY happy.
My race is November 23rd (Philly), and I am about 5 weeks away from starting my formal training program. So far this year, I've run a bit over 500 miles - averaging about 22 miles a week - and if you take away 4 weeks of greatly reduced mileage in April due to a case of plantar fasciitis, I'm averaging about 27 miles a week. I'm back up to 30+ mile weeks now, and have almost 1000 miles to run in the next 26 weeks to get to the starting line.
I lay all of that out to point out one specific thing about marathon training. If you don't want race day to be a death march, you have to put the miles in ahead of time in training. My plan is pretty high mileage for a first timer, but I want to be SURE I can handle race day. That means I have about 200 hours of running to do in the next 25 weeks - an average of almost 8 hours of running a week for me.
The marathon is all about the training. If you feel you can commit to the time for the training, you can do the race, IMO.
Ted0 -
Thank you all so much for the FB! I'm going to stick to the HMs until I know I can comfortably run a full!
That's like waiting until your ready to have kids.
I kid! Sorta...running a marathon is really never going to be comfortable. It's a huge challenge for every level of runner. The only exception might be those Marathon Maniacs who run some of their marathons at their easy run pace.
I know a guy who has been running since he was 12 years old. He is now 30. He hasn't ran a 1/2 yet. He is training for his first full this fall. He says he thinks he's "ready" now 0 -
Lol. I promise I won't take thaaaat long! I'll try the half a couple of times before deciding but it won't be later than end of next year or early 2016.Thank you all so much for the FB! I'm going to stick to the HMs until I know I can comfortably run a full!
That's like waiting until your ready to have kids.
I kid! Sorta...running a marathon is really never going to be comfortable. It's a huge challenge for every level of runner. The only exception might be those Marathon Maniacs who run some of their marathons at their easy run pace.0 -
Ted,Can you do it? Yes, you probably can.
Should you do it? Maybe... if you are smart about your training and continue the ramp up to the marathon, you stand a good chance of not hitting any major road blocks.
For me, I started C25K in January 2012... and had a very similar trajectory. 5K race in March, 10K race in July, 10 mile race in August and my first HM in September, second HM in November 2012 - with a 15 minute faster time.
I knew that I wanted to run a full, but after much deliberation, I decided that it could wait until I had more experience in running.
2013 was the year of the HM for me - I ran three more HMs - none as fast as November 2012, but I learned something from all of them, and by the end of the year finally felt confident that I could handle the full.
I'm slow, so it is still going to be a LONG haul day for me. I expect I will be north of 5:00 - if I come in under 5:30, I'll be VERY happy.
My race is November 23rd (Philly), and I am about 5 weeks away from starting my formal training program. So far this year, I've run a bit over 500 miles - averaging about 22 miles a week - and if you take away 4 weeks of greatly reduced mileage in April due to a case of plantar fasciitis, I'm averaging about 27 miles a week. I'm back up to 30+ mile weeks now, and have almost 1000 miles to run in the next 26 weeks to get to the starting line.
I lay all of that out to point out one specific thing about marathon training. If you don't want race day to be a death march, you have to put the miles in ahead of time in training. My plan is pretty high mileage for a first timer, but I want to be SURE I can handle race day. That means I have about 200 hours of running to do in the next 25 weeks - an average of almost 8 hours of running a week for me.
The marathon is all about the training. If you feel you can commit to the time for the training, you can do the race, IMO.
Ted
Thanks for that! Wow that's a lot of miles a week. I don't know if I will ever find that much of time but I guess I'll have to make time. What training plans did you use for your HMs? Which one are you using for your full? I'm thinking of doing at least 2/3 HMs before starting dedicated training for a full. I hope it all fits into my hectic schedule.0 -
The minimum for a marathon is pretty much peaking in the low to mid 30's for weekly mileage and higher is even better. BUT that also depends upon your expectations. You can certainly do a marathon on fewer miles, you just have to do it slower. I do the programs for our club training programs and we have the beginners peak at 38 in the highest week (20 mile long run) and about 8 weeks of an 18 week program are 30 or higher. I think the Hal Higdon programs have people doing a little bit less, which as I said is doable
Ted,Can you do it? Yes, you probably can.
Should you do it? Maybe... if you are smart about your training and continue the ramp up to the marathon, you stand a good chance of not hitting any major road blocks.
For me, I started C25K in January 2012... and had a very similar trajectory. 5K race in March, 10K race in July, 10 mile race in August and my first HM in September, second HM in November 2012 - with a 15 minute faster time.
I knew that I wanted to run a full, but after much deliberation, I decided that it could wait until I had more experience in running.
2013 was the year of the HM for me - I ran three more HMs - none as fast as November 2012, but I learned something from all of them, and by the end of the year finally felt confident that I could handle the full.
I'm slow, so it is still going to be a LONG haul day for me. I expect I will be north of 5:00 - if I come in under 5:30, I'll be VERY happy.
My race is November 23rd (Philly), and I am about 5 weeks away from starting my formal training program. So far this year, I've run a bit over 500 miles - averaging about 22 miles a week - and if you take away 4 weeks of greatly reduced mileage in April due to a case of plantar fasciitis, I'm averaging about 27 miles a week. I'm back up to 30+ mile weeks now, and have almost 1000 miles to run in the next 26 weeks to get to the starting line.
I lay all of that out to point out one specific thing about marathon training. If you don't want race day to be a death march, you have to put the miles in ahead of time in training. My plan is pretty high mileage for a first timer, but I want to be SURE I can handle race day. That means I have about 200 hours of running to do in the next 25 weeks - an average of almost 8 hours of running a week for me.
The marathon is all about the training. If you feel you can commit to the time for the training, you can do the race, IMO.
Ted
Thanks for that! Wow that's a lot of miles a week. I don't know if I will ever find that much of time but I guess I'll have to make time. What training plans did you use for your HMs? Which one are you using for your full? I'm thinking of doing at least 2/3 HMs before starting dedicated training for a full. I hope it all fits into my hectic schedule.0 -
Ted,
Thanks for that! Wow that's a lot of miles a week. I don't know if I will ever find that much of time but I guess I'll have to make time. What training plans did you use for your HMs? Which one are you using for your full? I'm thinking of doing at least 2/3 HMs before starting dedicated training for a full. I hope it all fits into my hectic schedule.
For my HMs I have used Hal Higdon's Novice 2 HM plan... usually with some extra mileage thrown in.
For the Full, I have been debating between Higdon's Intermediate 2 or the Hanson Brothers' Beginner plan.
I've decided on Hansons beginner plan. It is going to be a challenge... I've only run one 40 mile week so far in my running career, and the last 11 weeks of the plan are all 40+ miles.
The journey is the reward as they say.0 -
The minimum for a marathon is pretty much peaking in the low to mid 30's for weekly mileage and higher is even better. BUT that also depends upon your expectations. You can certainly do a marathon on fewer miles, you just have to do it slower. I do the programs for our club training programs and we have the beginners peak at 38 in the highest week (20 mile long run) and about 8 weeks of an 18 week program are 30 or higher. I think the Hal Higdon programs have people doing a little bit less, which as I said is doable
I'm following a 1/2 marathon plan (to prepare for a 10 mile race) from Greg McMillan's book "You (only faster)". A lot of his plans indicate a range of minutes instead of miles for most runs. I like that idea because as you naturally get faster and your training paces increase, you'll end up doing more distance in the same amount of time. This week I'm running a total of 5 hours and 25 minutes which equates to about 33 miles for me. If I repeat this plan later, I'll probably be running faster and I'll end up with more miles. So the plan stays the same but the miles naturally increase.0 -
I did look through a lot of plans for both the 10k and HM. What I love about Hal's novice plans are that I can actually understand what it means. I'm such a newbie that I don't understand complex running jargon, like 4*100 blah blah. I have no idea what all that means. Hals plan says this many miles today. I can get that. I need to concentrate on learning the terminology soon.
I did day one of Hal's novice one plan today! Let's hope I actually complete it. I'm going to start a new thread for shoe trouble but I think my new shoes suck.0 -
I agree with the saying! I'm looking at HH's half marathon plan too. I like how simple novice one is. I may be able to finish and add a couple of extra weeks before I have to taper for the race.
Ted,
Thanks for that! Wow that's a lot of miles a week. I don't know if I will ever find that much of time but I guess I'll have to make time. What training plans did you use for your HMs? Which one are you using for your full? I'm thinking of doing at least 2/3 HMs before starting dedicated training for a full. I hope it all fits into my hectic schedule.
For my HMs I have used Hal Higdon's Novice 2 HM plan... usually with some extra mileage thrown in.
For the Full, I have been debating between Higdon's Intermediate 2 or the Hanson Brothers' Beginner plan.
I've decided on Hansons beginner plan. It is going to be a challenge... I've only run one 40 mile week so far in my running career, and the last 11 weeks of the plan are all 40+ miles.
The journey is the reward as they say.0 -
I myself am training for my first HM in late July (essentially working Hal's beginning program). A bit on the fence on whether or not to try for a full in mid October. Likely going to be patient however. If the half goes well I'll likely take a few weeks off, and possibly just run a 10K or too this fall (or even run the HM at that same event in October) and then start thinking about a marathon plan.
Problem is being in a cold weather area, unless I want to do a lot of training in snowy dark conditions I may very well end up not being able to run that marathon until early summer.0 -
I started running October 2011 with C25k.
First 5K in January.
First Half Marathon in June 2012
First Marathon in November 2012, and I did a half about three weeks before it.
I think they went OK.
I didn't train for my first half. I just slowly ramped up mileage.
I did a Pfitzinger plan for the Marathon. Obviously, I was marathon training when I did the half in October.0 -
Problem is being in a cold weather area, unless I want to do a lot of training in snowy dark conditions I may very well end up not being able to run that marathon until early summer.
I did all my training for this spring's marathon in snowy, dark conditions. You can run outside in the winter; people do it all the time. A headlamp and some yaktrax and you'll be ready to go.
Also, most marathons are spring or fall. I wouldn't want to even think about running one in early summer when it could be hot. 70 is too hot for a marathon. 45°F is about perfect.0 -
I don't have that issue in TX! I'd love some summer running tips though. I'm doing the bulk of my HM training in peak summer and was thinking of doing it on an indoor track a couple of times a week and outside very early or very late in the day a couple of times a week. I hate running when the sun is burning down on me. The temps are already in the 80s and 90s here.Problem is being in a cold weather area, unless I want to do a lot of training in snowy dark conditions I may very well end up not being able to run that marathon until early summer.
I did all my training for this spring's marathon in snowy, dark conditions. You can run outside in the winter; people do it all the time. A headlamp and some yaktrax and you'll be ready to go.
Also, most marathons are spring or fall. I wouldn't want to even think about running one in early summer when it could be hot. 70 is too hot for a marathon. 45°F is about perfect.0
