back of packers
sammyneb
Posts: 257
http://relentlessforwardcommotion.com/2014/06/the-reality-of-the-back-of-the-pack-heartbreak-hill-half-marathon/#comment-12806
So as I am preparing to run my 8th half next weekend and also preparing to pace my friend on her first half this fall. I found this article. I am truly a middle of pack runner, occasionally on smaller races I may reach the top 1/3
but when I pace my friend my goal is to have her finish before the 3 hour cut off. After reading this article, I find it may be harder for me to be in the back then I thought. How defeating to have to stop for cars to have to be told to walk on the sidewalks, while still in the allotted time. No crowd support. I am going to make a better effort to hang and and cheer on the back of packers on all the races I have coming up!
So as I am preparing to run my 8th half next weekend and also preparing to pace my friend on her first half this fall. I found this article. I am truly a middle of pack runner, occasionally on smaller races I may reach the top 1/3
but when I pace my friend my goal is to have her finish before the 3 hour cut off. After reading this article, I find it may be harder for me to be in the back then I thought. How defeating to have to stop for cars to have to be told to walk on the sidewalks, while still in the allotted time. No crowd support. I am going to make a better effort to hang and and cheer on the back of packers on all the races I have coming up! 0
Replies
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i've only done 2 halfs...one was disney, so there was plenty of support for us at the back. The other i was recovering from a sprained ankle so i was at the back of the pack again. They did run out of cups for the water, so if you wanted any from mile 8 on, you had to just pour it into your mouth from the pitcher (which I tried to do). I don't think there was much crowd support at the race anyway, so can't comment on that. The bands were still there though and there was still food and photographers everywhere. Did have to divert to sidewalks once, but i actually think that was the route. Never had to stop for traffice. I guess maybe i am one of those people that don't know any different. Hoping to change that in September and become a middle of the pack person...lol!0
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I'm a middle-of-the-pack guy also - PR of 2:14:xx and a goal of 2:00. I think that article (which I like a lot) is hopefully the exception but I suspect that all races have that to some degree. I know the crowd is much less interested in my run by the time I pass - especially if the weather sucks in any direction. The only exception - the Lincoln, NE Marathon & HM is just jammed full of happy crowd folks. I think one secret is to try and find races that have both full and HM - the crowd and support staff are expecting a long event.
What HM is this weekend? And then the Lincoln Halfsy or Double Half Mary or ??? this fall?0 -
I do agree Lincoln has great crowd support (so long as the weather is nice!) I am running in Duluth on the 21st, week away still. No I didn't get into the Lincoln Halfsy, and did seriously consider the double half, but the timing was bad. I'm doing a small half in Loganview (by Fremont) labor day weekend, ran it last year and I"m trying to win a place metal, then pacing a friend the next weekend for a half in KC. Then in October doing the Waddel KC half
I do wonder how much of an exception it is, I have NEVER stayed for the end of race...I wonder how many people do? the good thing about Duluth is you can easily cheer on the end of the halves because the fulls start half hour later and 13.1 miles further down the lake. So you have to wait HOURS for anyone finishing the full after you ran the half (which my sister is running the full so I will be waiting for at least 3 hours for her!)0 -
It can be very demoralizing for back of the pack runners when the course shuts down around them. All we can do is keep going (I've been in the back a time or two).
But you say you are running this particular race to pace your friend, so I would be more concerned with being that person's mobile cheerleader than worrying about the band packing up, or the water stops being shut down.0 -
I'm mixed on this. I volunteered at a marathon last year, and I get the walkers. Like, the ones that appear to be putting "marathon effort" into it. I'm cool with that. Then, around the 7 hour mark come the lollygaggers just shambling around and taking pictures and stopping for 5min at the aid stations. That's kinda where I draw the line. My aid station partner and I were told there were still 20 people coming down, and it was starting to rain so I dumped the pretzels back into the bag and put a stack of cups next to the water jug and left. Consideration goes both ways, or maybe I'm just an *kitten*?0
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I've been the aid station captain. The aid station stays open until the cut off. After that we shut things down and if you come in afterwards I'm pulling you. End of story. What I don't do is close up shop early and leave. That sucks.0
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I'm mixed on this. I volunteered at a marathon last year, and I get the walkers. Like, the ones that appear to be putting "marathon effort" into it. I'm cool with that. Then, around the 7 hour mark come the lollygaggers just shambling around and taking pictures and stopping for 5min at the aid stations. That's kinda where I draw the line. My aid station partner and I were told there were still 20 people coming down, and it was starting to rain so I dumped the pretzels back into the bag and put a stack of cups next to the water jug and left. Consideration goes both ways, or maybe I'm just an *kitten*?
I agree with you. It is about the effort for me. I understand enjoying the race, but at the same time you need to be putting in an effort, the volunteers are there because you need them. But if you are just out there to "lollygag" then you can go for 26 mile walk on your own time. But if you are out there trying, putting in an effort than you should be supported just like the elites 0 -
I'm a mid pack runner too, and haven't run any "big" races to compare to. At my first half there were hardly any spectators out, and I was thankful that I had a co-worker to run with because he was my personal cheerleader. It was only the 2nd year for this race, and being that it was my first race, I didn't know what to expect.
My most recent half was celebrating its 10th anniversary this year. There were still not many spectators along the course, but the course volunteers were phenomenal at cheering everyone on, and the race director even sent out a personal message asking for everyone who could stick around and cheer on the closing runners, and they did a great job of it, IMO.
This week-end I may very well be a back of the packer, and I'll be honest that it has come to mind more than once that given that I'll possibly be slower than the bulk of runners, and that we are expecting 25-35 mm of rain (10 - 12 inches), there won't be as many spectators out on the course, and that terrifies me somehow.
Even though I train solo, and enjoy it, I want that race atmosphere/experience. Even if that means that I'm running a 13:50 pace and the course closes at a 14 minute pace.0 -
It can be very demoralizing for back of the pack runners when the course shuts down around them. All we can do is keep going (I've been in the back a time or two).
But you say you are running this particular race to pace your friend, so I would be more concerned with being that person's mobile cheerleader than worrying about the band packing up, or the water stops being shut down.
I am not worried about the placing packing up around me....I don't want that to be the race experience for my friend. I am used to having the cheering crowds and crowded water stops and all that goes along with being in the middle. I don't want her to feel "demoralized" I guess that is what this article made me think of...I am there for one purpose and it will be to support my friend, I just want her to have the best race experience she can. Which means I hope people stick around to cheer.0 -
I'm mixed on this. I volunteered at a marathon last year, and I get the walkers. Like, the ones that appear to be putting "marathon effort" into it. I'm cool with that. Then, around the 7 hour mark come the lollygaggers just shambling around and taking pictures and stopping for 5min at the aid stations. That's kinda where I draw the line. My aid station partner and I were told there were still 20 people coming down, and it was starting to rain so I dumped the pretzels back into the bag and put a stack of cups next to the water jug and left. Consideration goes both ways, or maybe I'm just an *kitten*?
I agree with you. It is about the effort for me. I understand enjoying the race, but at the same time you need to be putting in an effort, the volunteers are there because you need them. But if you are just out there to "lollygag" then you can go for 26 mile walk on your own time. But if you are out there trying, putting in an effort than you should be supported just like the elites
And there's no way to be right with the effort thing IMO, so I just don't volunteer at those events anymore. I'll do my part to give back to the racing community, but only at shorter distance and trail events. My son likes to hang with the volunteers because they put him to work peeling stickers off of fruit and filling cups.0 -
Interesting topic. I've thought about this. I volunteer a lot at trail races and sometimes I'm amazed at how much people don't treat races like races at all? And how much time they spend just hanging out at aid stations! But, yes, it is difficult for any of us to measure someone else's effort, so...
As for the aid stations, if the runners are expecting the station to be there, it better be there. Example: my running partner hurt his foot pretty bad just 10 miles into our 50 mile race. He decided to push through anyway, albeit very slowly. Between miles 40 to 50, there was one aid station, unmanned, with fluids. It was freaking hot that day and that station saved my sorry butt. By the time he got to it (1/2 before cut-off) they had torn it down. Major, major fail.0 -
Thanks for this! I may end up sharing this with some other people.
First of all, I absolutely agree with her that aid stations and the course should not ever close up before the cutoff.
A lot of friends of mine get started running and try to hop right to the marathon without ever improving their speed from when they started Couch to 5K. One of the things I have them do is put their 5K time into the MacMillan running calculator to get an estimate for their marathon time. THEN I have them look at previous results from the race they are interested in, and ask them to determine how frequently someone crosses the finish line during their anticipated window. For some people, it works out that a person crosses only every two minutes or so.... and I point out, "If you're crossing the line at that time, you're not going to be seeing anyone else. I'm cool with that, personally - I run trail ultras so I might run for HOURS without seeing anyone else on course - but is that the marathon experience you want to have"?0 -
I was a race walker. The reality is that there were never any bananas and water for me at the end of races and occasionally not a shirt.
The shirt thing pissed me off.
I registered MONTHS before the race, but any runner could show up that day and get a shirt, meaning that there wouldn't be one left for me.
However, I think you'll both still have a great time.0 -
I was a race walker. The reality is that there were never any bananas and water for me at the end of races and occasionally not a shirt.
The shirt thing pissed me off.
I registered MONTHS before the race, but any runner could show up that day and get a shirt, meaning that there wouldn't be one left for me.
However, I think you'll both still have a great time.
I haven't done a full- and every race that I have signed up for handed out the shirts with the race packets. It was the medals that got handed out at the finish line. A Florida thing perhaps?0 -
I was a race walker. The reality is that there were never any bananas and water for me at the end of races and occasionally not a shirt.
The shirt thing pissed me off.
I registered MONTHS before the race, but any runner could show up that day and get a shirt, meaning that there wouldn't be one left for me.
However, I think you'll both still have a great time.
I haven't done a full- and every race that I have signed up for handed out the shirts with the race packets. It was the medals that got handed out at the finish line. A Florida thing perhaps?
I've heard of "finisher" shirts given at the end, but that seems like a big mess and I dunno any races that do that. My ultra on Saturday had "participant" shirts for the event, and then finisher shirts that were given out only after you finished. And none of my shirts except two actually say "finisher" on it. Weird. Not sure of the impact that bandits have with taking stuff at the finish (volunteers are usually overwhelmed) but I'm sure it's something to consider as well.0 -
I have done several races with finisher shirts. Houston Marathon and Woodlands Marathon to name a couple. It's a huge PITA if you ask me. The last thing I feel like doing after running a big race is standing in line to get my shirt. But I guess they do it so they really are finisher shirts. If you don't finish the race you don't get one.I was a race walker. The reality is that there were never any bananas and water for me at the end of races and occasionally not a shirt.
The shirt thing pissed me off.
I registered MONTHS before the race, but any runner could show up that day and get a shirt, meaning that there wouldn't be one left for me.
However, I think you'll both still have a great time.
I haven't done a full- and every race that I have signed up for handed out the shirts with the race packets. It was the medals that got handed out at the finish line. A Florida thing perhaps?
I've heard of "finisher" shirts given at the end, but that seems like a big mess and I dunno any races that do that. My ultra on Saturday had "participant" shirts for the event, and then finisher shirts that were given out only after you finished. And none of my shirts except two actually say "finisher" on it. Weird. Not sure of the impact that bandits have with taking stuff at the finish (volunteers are usually overwhelmed) but I'm sure it's something to consider as well.0 -
Ugh running in the rain.. not the best way to spend a race.
I did that in March in Philadelphia, I believe it was not only raining but windy and about 38 degrees.
I was very thankful that there were volunteers that still came out in that mess to cheer runners on.
I was grateful to still finish in 2:30, but I heard that people closer to the 3 hour mark ran into similar issues, stations being broken down etc. I also ran into this last year as I was late for a start of the race and by time I got past mile 5 there really weren't any stations or water until about mile 7/8 .. it was frustrating to say the least.. good luck .. and be sure to pack your change of clothes in a trash bag to keep dry with a towel or two..0 -
It was about 10 years ago. Finishers shirts were more common. Walkers were less common. And I still loved participating in the races. Yes. It can be a different experience. Yes, you might be less supported. It is still a wonderful experience.0
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I was a race walker. The reality is that there were never any bananas and water for me at the end of races and occasionally not a shirt.
The shirt thing pissed me off.
I registered MONTHS before the race, but any runner could show up that day and get a shirt, meaning that there wouldn't be one left for me.
However, I think you'll both still have a great time.
I haven't done a full- and every race that I have signed up for handed out the shirts with the race packets. It was the medals that got handed out at the finish line. A Florida thing perhaps?
I've heard of "finisher" shirts given at the end, but that seems like a big mess and I dunno any races that do that. My ultra on Saturday had "participant" shirts for the event, and then finisher shirts that were given out only after you finished. And none of my shirts except two actually say "finisher" on it. Weird. Not sure of the impact that bandits have with taking stuff at the finish (volunteers are usually overwhelmed) but I'm sure it's something to consider as well.
Ultras are a different beast altogether. Especially now with facebook and twitter. It's not unheard of for the race director to know every single participant's NAME by the end of the race, and they know who is banditting too. With ultras, I've actually heard MORE complaints about lack of support in the front of the pack (aid stations not fully set up) than the back of the pack, who tend to get the most support.0 -
quick note on the finisher shirts. Minnesota is state that does finisher shirts. I have ran two different races up there and they both had finisher shirts. I kind of like the idea...0
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quick note on the finisher shirts. Minnesota is state that does finisher shirts. I have ran two different races up there and they both had finisher shirts. I kind of like the idea...
So do I - and, to be just, I could have gotten my shirt by taking time off work and going to the store between certain hours and hoping that they still had my size at that point. It just wasn't worth it to me for a t-shirt.0 -
I ram an overnight 50 miler last night that had a high rate of attrition- 35 of the 70 did not finish the run. Before awards, the RD made an announcement that there was one guy still out on the course and explained that he was still pushing forward even though he wouldn't have an official finish and would have to know it by now. He asked that as soon as someone saw this guy heading in, that we all stop everything and cheer him on as he crossed the finish. It was great to see the smile in his face as he came in!0
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I ram an overnight 50 miler last night that had a high rate of attrition- 35 of the 70 did not finish the run. Before awards, the RD made an announcement that there was one guy still out on the course and explained that he was still pushing forward even though he wouldn't have an official finish and would have to know it by now. He asked that as soon as someone saw this guy heading in, that we all stop everything and cheer him on as he crossed the finish. It was great to see the smile in his face as he came in!
This is why I love the running community!0 -
I ram an overnight 50 miler last night that had a high rate of attrition- 35 of the 70 did not finish the run. Before awards, the RD made an announcement that there was one guy still out on the course and explained that he was still pushing forward even though he wouldn't have an official finish and would have to know it by now. He asked that as soon as someone saw this guy heading in, that we all stop everything and cheer him on as he crossed the finish. It was great to see the smile in his face as he came in!
This is why I love the running community!
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You never know what the back of the packers are going through....just saying .
I'm usually in the middle of the pack but my last half I was struggling to just finish the race as I was going through some unknown helalth problems.
The last water station was at mile 10 and they ran out of cups but were handing out water bottles. I chose to carry a water bottle for a couple of miles then ditched it.
I can't tell you how frustrating it was to see the race crew picking up cones as I passed. I thought maybe my kidneys were the culprit as I hurt so bad and had shooting pain down the front and back of my legs. I found a pace I could run and just held steady. At one point I thought about getting a medic but decided I'd rather pass out then stop at mile 10....I'm stubborn.
The last couple of miles I was passed by some run walkers and just slower runners who were all very encouraging. They had no clue what my battle was. They motivated me in ways I didn't know possible.
After finally crossing the finish line 25 minutes slower than anticipated I took myself to Urgent care and found out I did have a medical Emergency.
I'll never look at the back of the pack the same way. I love those people!0
