Having trouble breaking through

exwilson
exwilson Posts: 154 Member
The longest distance I've gone so far is a half marathon. My 2014 goal is a full marathon and I've been in training for it since June. I'm at the point now in which I'm supposed to be running around 15 or 16 miles for my weekly long runs. The problem is, I get into this negative head space and peter out long before my goal.

For instance, last week, I was supposed to do 15 miles. I gave up at 9...9?!?! 9 miles is nothing to me, but I couldn't get myself to just keep going. And now I'm totally beating myself up about it.

It's as if I've got some kind of block about breaking through my distance PR. Not sure what the problem is, but I just can't seem to get there.

Anyway, I'm just as to what your strategies, mental or physical, are to keep pushing yourself during a run to meet your goals.

Replies

  • Garthamatic
    Garthamatic Posts: 84 Member
    If you need to stop and walk for 5 minutes in the middle and then restart the run, it's an option.

    I tell myself that I can do it, but when it comes down to it my stupid machismo type-A personality rears its head and I "gut" through it. Which sucks, as I've injured myself a couple times and had the whole internal conversation that goes like...

    "I should stop..."
    "Scr3w that, suck it up and RUN girly man..."

    I swear I can hear my old high school soccer coach yelling at me from my subconscious... :tongue:
  • litsy3
    litsy3 Posts: 783 Member
    Usually when people have this problem it is because they are running too fast. Try slowing down a bit?

    The other reason is that sometimes they are increasing the distance of their long run but not doing any more running than usual the rest of the week. Try and have your long run as not more than a third of your total weekly mileage.

    Finally, if it really is just mental, then use out-and-back routes where you don't turn around till half way so your quickest way home when you want to give up is to keep running.
  • harrynich
    harrynich Posts: 34 Member
    When are you planning on running your marathon?

    It's been years -- like 36 -- since I did long-distance running. I'm sure the "science" has changed a lot. I would agree with a previous poster that pacing is hugely important. Slow and steady wins the race, as the old saying goes. At least with respect to the first half of the run. What is your goal? To complete? Or do you have a time you want to achieve? If it's a time, then make sure it's a reasonable amount of time. I would advise anyone, though, to plan merely to complete their first marathon.

    Are you changing your route on a regular basis? I found this very helpful. The "been here done this" feeling can get in your way sometimes.

    I personally always found the 10 mile moment to be pretty amazing. I'd run the first five very slowly, and then increase my speed only slightly for the second five. My body would seem to invite me to increase speed somewhere around nine or 10 miles.

    I also found it helpful not to run "miles" per se but from place to place. Since I was always running in San Francisco's Golden Gate Park it was very easy to find landmarks to run from and to and to plan my training around those distances rather than "miles." Of course, the park was magical for that since I lived at the end of it furthest from the ocean and could always have the ocean be one of the places I ran to. Also, if your other half is up for it, have him meet you at the eleven or twelve-mile moment to cheer you on.

    But I think the most important thing is not to overdo. If you're running 15 miles for your long run, you should be running about 45 miles during the week. I think most people work up to this too quickly. I personally think that in addition to having days you don't run that you should have weeks with greatly reduced running times. It's important to remember that 15 miles is a long distance. Just like nine. Just like three. Also, make sure you've got a food program that's supporting long-distance running! The long run every week requires as much food planning as the actual marathon.

    You've got this.
  • exwilson
    exwilson Posts: 154 Member
    "I should stop..."
    "Scr3w that, suck it up and RUN girly man..."
    Yeah, that's why I don't walk, usually. I really should, though, just to keep going.
    Usually when people have this problem it is because they are running too fast. Try slowing down a bit?
    When I'm running less than 5, I run at a 8'30" pace, around 7-8 miles I run at a 9' pace. When I'm running anything longer than that, I keep it at a 10' pace so as keep some stamina.
    increasing the distance of their long run but not doing any more running than usual the rest of the week.
    For sure. My program calls for increased mileage throughout the week in conjunction with the long runs.

    @Harrynich - I'm running in mid-October. All I want to do is finish out the marathon, though I'd like to have some kind of respectable time. I've considered asking my fiance to meet me around the 9 or 10 mile mark. That'd be a lot of fun. Trouble is, he usually takes the time I'm running to do the things he likes to do. :-)
  • exwilson
    exwilson Posts: 154 Member
    Thanks everyone for your thoughts!
  • litsy3
    litsy3 Posts: 783 Member
    Usually when people have this problem it is because they are running too fast. Try slowing down a bit?
    When I'm running less than 5, I run at a 8'30" pace, around 7-8 miles I run at a 9' pace. When I'm running anything longer than that, I keep it at a 10' pace so as keep some stamina.

    Okay, sounds like you definitely need to slow down ALL your runs (not just the longer ones). How fast would a 'respectable time' for the marathon be for you? And how fast did you run your half marathon last year? If you take your half marathon time and put it into the McMillan calculator here: http://www.mcmillanrunning.com/ and then click on the 'training paces' tab, it'll give you some pace suggestions for different types of run. Most people find that taking the slower end of the suggested 'easy' and 'long run' ranges works for them.
  • exwilson
    exwilson Posts: 154 Member
    I don't think I need to slow down any of my runs. My 5K PR is 22', my 1/2 marathon PR is 1:56'. And my marathon goal is 4:30. Using the calculator you provided, it would seem I'm right on target.
  • ekat120
    ekat120 Posts: 407 Member
    I'm also training for my first full and do my long runs with a local group. It's definitely kept me from quitting a few times! The out-and-back trick works well, too :) And promising myself something really great afterward, like a shower or a beer. Everyone at the group run swears they only keep going to get to the watermelon they put out at the end :)
  • RunnerElizabeth
    RunnerElizabeth Posts: 1,091 Member
    How many miles are you running per week?
  • litsy3
    litsy3 Posts: 783 Member
    I don't think I need to slow down any of my runs. My 5K PR is 22', my 1/2 marathon PR is 1:56'. And my marathon goal is 4:30. Using the calculator you provided, it would seem I'm right on target.

    I still think you do - based on your 5k PR the training paces sound okay, but if you just put your half marathon PR into the calculator (or based on your marathon goal), the suggested training paces are a lot slower. As you're struggling at longer distances, I'd really recommend following those. For perspective, when you go out and do your short and medium runs, you are running close to or faster than half marathon PR pace. That's really hard work, and something my coach wouldn't let me do without a 3-mile warm-up and half-mile cool-down either side. The effect of this is you can't complete your long runs because you've tired yourself out during the week.

    You're also trying to do your long runs faster than your target marathon pace, which never ends well.
  • sammyneb
    sammyneb Posts: 257
    I would tend to agree with the slowing down. I have run 9 halves and 1 full marathon. I would run almost all of my runs at about the same pace which wasn't more than 40 seconds slower than my half PR...I would finish the runs, but they were hard and they sucked and i began to not really like running. I stalled on any progress on my half time, so I hit the trails...I have signed up for a 50K trail race this fall. I just ran 20 miles last weekend on the trails averaging 11 minute miles (2 minutes slower than my half pace) and it felt great, almost easy. Last year training for my full I was running no slower than 10:30's but more closer to 9;45's...and i faltered hard at my full...I had pushed myself too hard the entire training cycle. I have fallen back in love with running (mainly running the trails) by simply slowing down.
  • rabblerabble
    rabblerabble Posts: 471 Member
    Ditto on slowing down. Nearly every training program I've looked at emphasizes the longest runs of the week are supposed to be about endurance and not speed.

    For myself, ran a half in July, training for a half in October and potentially want to bump up to a full sometime in 2015.
  • litsy3
    litsy3 Posts: 783 Member
    Ditto on slowing down. Nearly every training program I've looked at emphasizes the longest runs of the week are supposed to be about endurance and not speed.

    To the OP - because I know you do slow down on your long runs (though arguably not enough) I'd also add that the shortest runs of the week are not about speed either - they're about recovery. If I'm running less than 5 miles (unless it's a tempo session with a LONG warm-up) it's a recovery run and it's going to be slower than any of my other running.
  • arc918
    arc918 Posts: 2,037 Member
    My $.02 - there is NO magic to running and training for a marathon. 26.2 is a LONG way to go and the training is time consuming.

    Blow off you fall marathon, up your mileage for fun (your half marathon times will improve). Work you way up to an 18+ mile long run, but without the pressure of the race looming over your head.

    Running, racing and training should be fun!

    Good luck.
  • CarsonRuns
    CarsonRuns Posts: 3,039 Member
    I don't think I need to slow down any of my runs. My 5K PR is 22', my 1/2 marathon PR is 1:56'. And my marathon goal is 4:30. Using the calculator you provided, it would seem I'm right on target.

    I still think you do - based on your 5k PR the training paces sound okay, but if you just put your half marathon PR into the calculator (or based on your marathon goal), the suggested training paces are a lot slower. As you're struggling at longer distances, I'd really recommend following those. For perspective, when you go out and do your short and medium runs, you are running close to or faster than half marathon PR pace. That's really hard work, and something my coach wouldn't let me do without a 3-mile warm-up and half-mile cool-down either side. The effect of this is you can't complete your long runs because you've tired yourself out during the week.

    You're also trying to do your long runs faster than your target marathon pace, which never ends well.

    This is right on the money. Couldn't have stated it better myself.
  • exwilson
    exwilson Posts: 154 Member
    You're also trying to do your long runs faster than your target marathon pace, which never ends well.
    I don't mean to be contentious but 10' pace for my long runs is not faster than my target marathon pace, unless I'm calculating incorrectly.
    For perspective, when you go out and do your short and medium runs, you are running close to or faster than half marathon PR pace. ...The effect of this is you can't complete your long runs because you've tired yourself out during the week.
    This certainly resonates.
    Blow off you fall marathon, up your mileage for fun (your half marathon times will improve). Work you way up to an 18+ mile long run, but without the pressure of the race looming over your head.
    Getting to my goal and completing the race is fun to me. :)


    Again, thank you everyone for your thoughts.
  • kkramey1970
    kkramey1970 Posts: 82 Member
    Same thing happened to me during my first marathon training. Only advice I have is to suck it up and keep on going. When I ran the Atlanta marathon my brother met me around mile 20 and ran a few with me. Totally picked my spirits up. Wish he could do it again for me in October. Keep up the training and eat right. The mental part is all you.
  • RunnerElizabeth
    RunnerElizabeth Posts: 1,091 Member
    A 4:30 marathon is a 10:18 pace. You should be running your long runs at 10:10 to 11:24.

    In HM training last year I went up to 15 and 16 miles. It was hard as hell. I was keeping my pace right but I was only running 30-35 miles per week. Not enough to sustain those long runs.

    Now I'm training for my first marathon in November. I run 40 Monday - Friday miles + my long run. Last week it was 16, this week it's 17. So over 55 mpw (this week will actually be 58). It is so much easier to run 14, 15, 16 mile runs. I never thought the percentage really mattered until i started keeping my long runs less than 1/3 my weekly mileage. Just a thought.

    I also like running my training runs at 10:30 - 11 pace. It totally helps!

    I hope you get it figured out!
  • exwilson
    exwilson Posts: 154 Member
    A 4:30 marathon is a 10:18 pace. You should be running your long runs at 10:10 to 11:24.

    I see the error of my mathematical ways...he whispered sheepishly.
  • harrynich
    harrynich Posts: 34 Member
    You got this.
  • Curtruns
    Curtruns Posts: 510 Member
    what has you stopping? Is it mental or are you just "pooped" When I have runs that last more than an hour, I bring along some fuel. I have been experimenting with fig newtons. They seem to do me well.
  • boatsie77
    boatsie77 Posts: 480 Member
    Run in a straight line 7.5 miles...then you've gotta do the 15 to get back to your home or car again (run or walk, it makes no difference)
  • 321blueeyes
    321blueeyes Posts: 279 Member
    I originally had trouble breaking into half marathon training (but have since mastered it & marathon trail runs). I found it helpful to join a local marathon training group. Company = motivation on a long run. Plus, I talk a lot with the other runners & this keeps my pace in check.

    I also found it helpful to switch to a run/walk model for my long runs. It's a good mental break when you only have to run "x" number of minutes at a time. My pace doesn't feel so painfully slow because the walking helps to slow my HR and pace into a better range without feeling like I'm shuffling.
  • exwilson
    exwilson Posts: 154 Member
    Okay - quick update. Since soooo many people suggested slowing down the long run, I gave it a whirl for my 16 mile run yesterday. I started out trying to run at 11' per mile. I never really got there though and ended up keeping it at around 10'30" per mile for the first 10 miles. I felt so good going into the next couple miles, I just naturally started to speed up without trying to. With 2 miles to go, I had so much left in the tank. By the end, I was wondering what was stopping me before.

    Well anyway, thanks everybody for your thoughts and advice. Cheers!
  • tkillion810
    tkillion810 Posts: 591 Member
    Usually when people have this problem it is because they are running too fast. Try slowing down a bit?

    The other reason is that sometimes they are increasing the distance of their long run but not doing any more running than usual the rest of the week. Try and have your long run as not more than a third of your total weekly mileage.

    Finally, if it really is just mental, then use out-and-back routes where you don't turn around till half way so your quickest way home when you want to give up is to keep running.

    This!!! I was going to suggest having someone drop you off at a start location how ever many miles you need away from home. For running marathons I prefer the point to point courses for this very reason. I tell myself that there's only one way to that finish line. Another thought - try finding/joining a local running group to meet up with. This was super helpful to me in preparing for my first. Many times I would run the first half of my miles by myself before the rest of the group showed up. Then I would finish the run with them.

    Good luck!
  • STrooper
    STrooper Posts: 659 Member
    To the OP:

    Glad slowing down helped.

    Here's a dirty little secret. Those elite runners turning in those low two hour times don't run their long training runs anywhere near their race pace (more like 3-5 minutes per mile slower than their race pace). Granted, their slow running pace may be faster than your race pace, but if you are running your long runs at race pace, you are just wearing yourself out and causing yourself a longer recovery time.
  • MinimalistShoeAddict
    MinimalistShoeAddict Posts: 1,946 Member
    For instance, last week, I was supposed to do 15 miles. I gave up at 9...9?!?! 9 miles is nothing to me, but I couldn't get myself to just keep going. And now I'm totally beating myself up about it.

    It sounds like the good advice you received regarding slowing down helped! Great work!

    To address the mental part I definitely agree with the down and back route advice as well