Two goal races 3 weeks apart?
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RunnerElizabeth
Posts: 1,091 Member
So I am running the BAA HM on October 12th. Three weeks later on November 2nd I'm running my first marathon. I planned the best possible new england marathon that would allow me to run the BAA half. I love this race, it's my benchmark race.
When i was planning my race season in spring, my plan was to give my A performance in the HM (1:59:59, about 40 secs faster than my HM prediction based off my 5k) and just run the marathon for the finish since it is my first. But training is going so well. I've been averaging 40.7 miles per week for the last 13 weeks. My training until the taper will be between 50-60+ mpw (this week I'm running 58). I've started doing some speedwork once a week for the last 6 weeks, my long runs are now always over 14 miles (except cutback weeks are 12) and my recovery time after running is minimal.
Since things are going so well, I started to think that maybe I could try to hit my predicted marathon time based on my 5k (4:13:59). I guess I have this idea, maybe it's completely wrong, that the first timers that need to add 30 mins to their predicted time are the ones that aren't peaking in the 60s for training.
So is it possible to give A performances in both races? If so do I need to taper for both? And how much?
If i really have to choose, I'd rather race the HM and run the full as planned. If i do this, do I need to taper for the half? Ordinarily i would run 40 miles mon-fri, Saturday off and race on sunday. If i have to cut miles mon-fri, how many should i cut?
Thanks everybody!
When i was planning my race season in spring, my plan was to give my A performance in the HM (1:59:59, about 40 secs faster than my HM prediction based off my 5k) and just run the marathon for the finish since it is my first. But training is going so well. I've been averaging 40.7 miles per week for the last 13 weeks. My training until the taper will be between 50-60+ mpw (this week I'm running 58). I've started doing some speedwork once a week for the last 6 weeks, my long runs are now always over 14 miles (except cutback weeks are 12) and my recovery time after running is minimal.
Since things are going so well, I started to think that maybe I could try to hit my predicted marathon time based on my 5k (4:13:59). I guess I have this idea, maybe it's completely wrong, that the first timers that need to add 30 mins to their predicted time are the ones that aren't peaking in the 60s for training.
So is it possible to give A performances in both races? If so do I need to taper for both? And how much?
If i really have to choose, I'd rather race the HM and run the full as planned. If i do this, do I need to taper for the half? Ordinarily i would run 40 miles mon-fri, Saturday off and race on sunday. If i have to cut miles mon-fri, how many should i cut?
Thanks everybody!
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Instead of speculating about the full now how about carry on as you are? Give your "A" performance to your half marathon. Once you see how that goes re-evaluate how you want to approach the full. You'll have 3 weeks and more concrete information to make a realistic informed decision.0
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Since things are going so well, I started to think that maybe I could try to hit my predicted marathon time based on my 5k (4:13:59). I guess I have this idea, maybe it's completely wrong, that the first timers that need to add 30 mins to their predicted time are the ones that aren't peaking in the 60s for training.
I peaked in the 70s for my first and I hit the wall at 20 and ran McMillan +30.
Both, highly unlikely. I would do the HM as a training run, doing the last 8 to 10 miles at MP then race the marathon.So is it possible to give A performances in both races? If so do I need to taper for both? And how much?
I think this is a bad idea. If you race the half, you won't be properly recovered for the full. You'll have one week of recovery and then start to taper.
If i really have to choose, I'd rather race the HM and run the full as planned. If i do this, do I need to taper for the half? Ordinarily i would run 40 miles mon-fri, Saturday off and race on sunday. If i have to cut miles mon-fri, how many should i cut?0 -
I did two halfs 2 weeks apart and gave it my all in the first and pretty sure I suffered for it in the second. I PR'd in both, but I feel I sold my performance short in the second, FWIW.0
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I agree with Carson...
You're are not going to want to race a 1/2 marathon 3 weeks before your first full.
However, yes, it can be done. In March of this year, my current PRs were 1:41 & 3:43... On March 15th I PRed in the 1/2 1:33, March 22nd raced a 20:13 5k, then the following weekend ran a "spur of the moment full 3:27..
On the note, my 5k at the time predicted that I could run 3:14.. That was my 5th marathon, and I was still 14+ away from mcmillians prediction. You might say, well that's because you didn't really taper.
However, since then, I've ran 2 more marathons. 3:31 & 3:26. My current 19:19 5k PR is predicting me to run a 3:03 full.. As you can see, I'm really no where near that time lol..
My first full? I ran a 4:09.. I peaked at 65ish miles? I could run a 21 min 5k.. It was predicted that I could run a sub 3:30..
I started with the 3:50 pace group & died.
I think you should do a 4 mile warm up, 10 miles of the 1/2 at GMP then 3 mile cool down after the race. That will give you a good marathon prep0 -
I peaked at 70 miles for my first marathon and hit my McMillan prediction almost exactly based on my half time (my 5k time was a lot slower as I'd never trained specifically for 5k). But I don't think I could do myself justice in a marathon if I raced a half so close to it - I'd give myself at least 5-6 weeks in between races. I know people who would race a half 4 weeks before, but they tend to be very experienced racers who know they can handle it.0
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I would not try to race both especially for your first marathon. And your marathon goal really needs to be finishing. my mcmillan prediction was 10 minutes faster than i came in for my 1st marathon.0
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Looks like I made a mistake signing up for marathons 2 weeks apart then. Running the MS Blues Marathon on 1/11/15 and then the RnR New Orleans 1/25/15. I'm hoping to PR at the RnR New Orleans. We shall see.0
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I am going to go the other way and say that you should go ahead with your original plan of racing the HM and running the full with a goal of finishing. You will learn a lot about how to run and train while running the full that no amount of training will teach you. I also would caution you about using a 5K time to predict a marathon finish, I think doubling your half time and adding 10 minutes will give you a better guestimate.0
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I am going to go the other way and say that you should go ahead with your original plan of racing the HM and running the full with a goal of finishing. You will learn a lot about how to run and train while running the full that no amount of training will teach you. I also would caution you about using a 5K time to predict a marathon finish, I think doubling your half time and adding 10 minutes will give you a better guestimate.
I totally agree with this. My marathon time predicted by McMillan was accurate based on my half PR at the time, not on my 5K PR.0 -
Absolutely no way I'd run a marathon off my 5K time. I was actually just talking about this recently with a few people. My predicted times swing by about 20mins depending on which PR I put in, so I will err on the conservative end.0
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Ok, the reason why I picked my 5k time and not my HM time is because my HM time is weak. It's 2:06 from November 2013 on 23 mpw. The 5k time predicts a 2:00:40 second HM for me which I'm 98% sure i could do it as long as it isn't 90 degrees on race day, I'm not recovering from pneumonia, not pushing a jogging stroller and not having a panic attack. (I realize the last one is a big if!) The problem is I don't have the time to back it up because I have this great opportunity on October 12th on a course that I'm very familiar with, but problem is, it's 3 weeks before my first marathon. ;-) And it seems if i race the half and try for 1:59:59 (pushing it, I know) i probably won't finish my marathon. That would be devastating.
And this is really the problem for me. I've done all this training and I don't get to try it out and have a really good race this year. Because the marathon is the first one and i realize that no matter what the time is I'll be able to improve upon it in the future. I realize finishing a marathon is a huge accomplishment on its own, but yes, I was really hoping that in 2014 along with finishing a marathon and finally running a decent amount regularly that i could also run a 1:59:59 HM. But i don't have a lot of opportunities to race solo (meaning no stroller) i have October 12th and November 2nd. I guess i just have to accept the fact that my choice this year is to run a marathon which means i don't get to run my fast (relatively speaking) HM this year.
Sorry if i sound a bit down about all this. I know everyone is trying to help. You guys just don't want me to have a terrible time or make bad decisions. It's just i finally figured out how to run consistently, and I won't have anything to show for it except for my "needs improvement" marathon time. Sad face.0 -
Ok, the reason why I picked my 5k time and not my HM time is because my HM time is weak. It's 2:06 from November 2013 on 23 mpw. The 5k time predicts a 2:00:40 second HM for me which I'm 98% sure i could do it as long as it isn't 90 degrees on race day, I'm not recovering from pneumonia, not pushing a jogging stroller and not having a panic attack. (I realize the last one is a big if!) The problem is I don't have the time to back it up because I have this great opportunity on October 12th on a course that I'm very familiar with, but problem is, it's 3 weeks before my first marathon. ;-) And it seems if i race the half and try for 1:59:59 (pushing it, I know) i probably won't finish my marathon. That would be devastating.
And this is really the problem for me. I've done all this training and I don't get to try it out and have a really good race this year. Because the marathon is the first one and i realize that no matter what the time is I'll be able to improve upon it in the future. I realize finishing a marathon is a huge accomplishment on its own, but yes, I was really hoping that in 2014 along with finishing a marathon and finally running a decent amount regularly that i could also run a 1:59:59 HM. But i don't have a lot of opportunities to race solo (meaning no stroller) i have October 12th and November 2nd. I guess i just have to accept the fact that my choice this year is to run a marathon which means i don't get to run my fast (relatively speaking) HM this year.
Sorry if i sound a bit down about all this. I know everyone is trying to help. You guys just don't want me to have a terrible time or make bad decisions. It's just i finally figured out how to run consistently, and I won't have anything to show for it except for my "needs improvement" marathon time. Sad face.
I'd consider a consistently paced "needs improvement" marathon time more of a success than a "walk/ran the last 6mi in" marathon time (mine).0 -
Ok, the reason why I picked my 5k time and not my HM time is because my HM time is weak. It's 2:06 from November 2013 on 23 mpw. The 5k time predicts a 2:00:40 second HM for me which I'm 98% sure i could do it as long as it isn't 90 degrees on race day, I'm not recovering from pneumonia, not pushing a jogging stroller and not having a panic attack. (I realize the last one is a big if!) The problem is I don't have the time to back it up because I have this great opportunity on October 12th on a course that I'm very familiar with, but problem is, it's 3 weeks before my first marathon. ;-) And it seems if i race the half and try for 1:59:59 (pushing it, I know) i probably won't finish my marathon. That would be devastating.
And this is really the problem for me. I've done all this training and I don't get to try it out and have a really good race this year. Because the marathon is the first one and i realize that no matter what the time is I'll be able to improve upon it in the future. I realize finishing a marathon is a huge accomplishment on its own, but yes, I was really hoping that in 2014 along with finishing a marathon and finally running a decent amount regularly that i could also run a 1:59:59 HM. But i don't have a lot of opportunities to race solo (meaning no stroller) i have October 12th and November 2nd. I guess i just have to accept the fact that my choice this year is to run a marathon which means i don't get to run my fast (relatively speaking) HM this year.
Sorry if i sound a bit down about all this. I know everyone is trying to help. You guys just don't want me to have a terrible time or make bad decisions. It's just i finally figured out how to run consistently, and I won't have anything to show for it except for my "needs improvement" marathon time. Sad face.
I don't see why you can't race the half. You have more than enough time to recover from that before the marathon. Race the hell out of the half and run the marathon to finish.
And I realize that I am contradicting Carson's advice here but let's be real. You and I aren't racing/running at his level. Recovering from a two hour half is not that huge of a deal.0 -
Ok, the reason why I picked my 5k time and not my HM time is because my HM time is weak. It's 2:06 from November 2013 on 23 mpw. The 5k time predicts a 2:00:40 second HM for me which I'm 98% sure i could do it as long as it isn't 90 degrees on race day, I'm not recovering from pneumonia, not pushing a jogging stroller and not having a panic attack. (I realize the last one is a big if!) The problem is I don't have the time to back it up because I have this great opportunity on October 12th on a course that I'm very familiar with, but problem is, it's 3 weeks before my first marathon. ;-) And it seems if i race the half and try for 1:59:59 (pushing it, I know) i probably won't finish my marathon. That would be devastating.
And this is really the problem for me. I've done all this training and I don't get to try it out and have a really good race this year. Because the marathon is the first one and i realize that no matter what the time is I'll be able to improve upon it in the future. I realize finishing a marathon is a huge accomplishment on its own, but yes, I was really hoping that in 2014 along with finishing a marathon and finally running a decent amount regularly that i could also run a 1:59:59 HM. But i don't have a lot of opportunities to race solo (meaning no stroller) i have October 12th and November 2nd. I guess i just have to accept the fact that my choice this year is to run a marathon which means i don't get to run my fast (relatively speaking) HM this year.
Sorry if i sound a bit down about all this. I know everyone is trying to help. You guys just don't want me to have a terrible time or make bad decisions. It's just i finally figured out how to run consistently, and I won't have anything to show for it except for my "needs improvement" marathon time. Sad face.
I don't see why you can't race the half. You have more than enough time to recover from that before the marathon. Race the hell out of the half and run the marathon to finish.
And I realize that I am contradicting Carson's advice here but let's be real. You and I aren't racing/running at his level. Recovering from a two hour half is not that huge of a deal.
Okay, I'll concede this point.
If a 2:00 HM is right around your easy run pace, then it probably isn't going to take as long to recover. Let's say, within 30 seconds of the pace that you've been doing your long runs. Yeah, that's not going to beat you up as much as say, running your HM 2:00 or more per mile faster than your easy run pace.0 -
But i don't have a lot of opportunities to race solo (meaning no stroller) i have October 12th and November 2nd. I guess i just have to accept the fact that my choice this year is to run a marathon which means i don't get to run my fast (relatively speaking) HM this year.
I think you can go all in on your half. As you said you have done the work and are ready to go, just when you do the full on the 2nd your goal should be "Finisher" with no specific time goal.0 -
For what it's worth, I'm doing 13mi of a relay and then a half the next morning, both events are 3wks before the Air Force Marathon, and I'm running both at MP (the half will be easy pace the first few miles) because it takes me about a week to recover from an all-out half. I see the effort as being a confidence booster more than anything and have no desire to PR so close to the marathon.0
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Well no, I'm not running my long runs 30 seconds slower than goal HM pace. Goal HM pace is 9:10. I've been running my long runs within my mcmillan range at 10:30, so 1:20 slower. If i were only going for 10-12 miles, I would probably bring it down closer to 10, but I'd probably think that such a short run was a waste of childcare so I'd bring the stroller which would put me back at 10:30. I've been working very hard to stay within my ranges for all of my different runs.
I assumed I'd be recovered enough to run (not race) the full because recovery after races has been minimal for me at this point since I am at the slower side of things. Last year i did 2 HM's 3 weeks apart. I pr'd the first by 30 secs and the second by 4:30. I actually never feel bad after a race anyway, because I'm not pushing hard enough. I've been ok with gradually getting faster over time. But i do think next year I'm going to focus on 5k and 10k and really working on causing pain when i race.
So at this point, I've got about a 50/50 split (including opinions from others not on this thread) on racing the half. I'm 100% sold on running the full at a comfortable pace and just finishing. Given that I am a slower runner and i haven't needed much recovery time in the past, I am going to go for the pr on Oct 12th.
Thanks everyone!0
