Talked to a PT this morning, I have a couple of questions
logg1e
Posts: 1,208 Member
Is the bench press a compound move?
Is the bench press the only 5x5 exercise that works the chest?
Should I add other, isolated, exercises to the 5x5 routine such as those to work the chest?
Is 5 reps enough, or should I be doing 8 to 12?
I am a newbie, and 5x5 seemed perfect. I find it strikes the right balance between being easy to follow yet meaty enough to mean I'm learning a lot about terminology, good practice and nutrition. However this morning I spoke to one of the Personal Trainers at the gym and he said so much which contradicted what I thought and have read.
Is the bench press the only 5x5 exercise that works the chest?
Should I add other, isolated, exercises to the 5x5 routine such as those to work the chest?
Is 5 reps enough, or should I be doing 8 to 12?
I am a newbie, and 5x5 seemed perfect. I find it strikes the right balance between being easy to follow yet meaty enough to mean I'm learning a lot about terminology, good practice and nutrition. However this morning I spoke to one of the Personal Trainers at the gym and he said so much which contradicted what I thought and have read.
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Stick with the program as is. The Bench Press is a compound move as it uses your biceps, triceps and core to get the weight up.0
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Please don't waste any more money on a pt that thinks bench press isn't a compound movement...
Stick to it as written until you aren't a beginner (3-6 months of lifting and lots of research) before you start adding in accessories.0 -
Thank you. There'll be no money exchanging hands, he said he'll happily help me by spotting me. We're meeting up next week and he's going to check my form. I'll be firm and insist that we stick to the exercises I'm interested in. We only spoke briefly but he was personable and polite.
But, I did start this thread because of the four areas in my first post that he raised questions in my mind.0 -
1. Is the bench press a compound move?
2. Is the bench press the only 5x5 exercise that works the chest?
3. Should I add other, isolated, exercises to the 5x5 routine such as those to work the chest?
4. Is 5 reps enough, or should I be doing 8 to 12?
1. Yes. The primary muscles that are worked in a bench press are the triceps brachii and pectoralis major with the anterior (front) deltoids, traps & back as secondary muscles and your abs are stabilizers.
2. No. Overhead Press also works the upper pecs.
3. You can add assistance/accessory moves to your 5x5 workout. What and how much is up to you.
4. Yes, 5 reps is enough. The point of 5x5 is to increase strength. This is accomplished by lifting heavier weights and doing fewer reps. When you increase your reps to the 8 to 12+ range, you won't be able to lift as heavy and you are basically training for muscle endurance rather than strength gains.
When you first start 5x5, the weights won't be super heavy, it won't take you long to complete your workout and you'll probably feel like it's too easy. Just wait. It will get harder. A lot harder. That's the point, though. The program is simple for a reason. Stick with it and you'll like the end result!0 -
Thanks Katro. I am fully convinced. It was just talking to an experienced, informed expert that made me feel all confused. I don't want to add anything yet - I'm just learning. I don't mind that 5 reps isn't really enough with the light weights I'm lifting - I'm still building good habits.0
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I would be a little wary of a PT that didn't know the definition of a compound movement. For the record- compound move= an exercise in which more than one joint moves(which also translates to more muscles being worked). Bench= shoulder and elbow. vs biceps curl or triceps extension in which just the elbow moves.
I would also be cautious that he will teach you incorrect form in the context of the program (or could just teach you bad form altogether who knows). Body building style bench attempts to isolate the chest. SL uses a powerlifting style bench that will use every muscle in your body when done correctly.0 -
Yeah, it's tricky isn't it? I mean, I can't check my own form, but his comments do cause concern.0
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My experience with PT's is that they mean well, but most of them are just really under-informed. I used to workout with one a few years ago and she would have considered the SL 5x5 program training to become a professional body builder. She turned out to be a great friend and I just don't workout with her anymore (nor do I pay her any more either lol).0
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My experience with PT's is that they mean well, but most of them are just really under-informed.
there's this one rec centre i go to sometimes, which has a much smaller weights room than the other . . . and seems like every time i go there, there's also this very young woman there at the same time. perfect workout-barbie outfits and all. don't get me wrong, she's in way better shape than i am and she had me pretty intimidated. not that she was trying or anything, but, well . . . y'know. anyway, she'd get in the smith machine and do 30 minutes of beautiful squats with great big weights and about halfway to parallel, alongside me grunting and wobbling my way through my sets in the rack.
thing is, i heard her telling someone else in the room that she's a personal trainer one day. so then i felt guilty enough to ask her if i was hogging the rack or if she was waiting for it, or would she like to work in/around me. and frankly she gave me the kind of cockroachy look you get from some people when you suggest that they could take a bus. so apparently she does her squats in the smith machine because i dunno, the rack is good enough for the likes of me or something.
i don't usually keep track of other people's form or try to keep cred score or anything of that kind, because what the heck do i know? but i guess she kind of got up my nose.0 -
My experience with PT's is that they mean well, but most of them are just really under-informed.
Most are... but not ALL are.
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Is the bench press a compound move?
Is the bench press the only 5x5 exercise that works the chest?
Should I add other, isolated, exercises to the 5x5 routine such as those to work the chest?
Is 5 reps enough, or should I be doing 8 to 12?
I am a newbie, and 5x5 seemed perfect. I find it strikes the right balance between being easy to follow yet meaty enough to mean I'm learning a lot about terminology, good practice and nutrition. However this morning I spoke to one of the Personal Trainers at the gym and he said so much which contradicted what I thought and have read.
I know EXACTLY what you mean. I "hired" a personal trainer to check my form and help me work on my squats. He wanted to add accessory. He asked me why I wanted to do SL. I told him b/c it was a simple program. He argued that it was geared toward "young studs who want to make the football team". Apparently, it's not designed for 50yo woman who just want to retain muscle and build strength. I almost bought into his argument; there I reread the info posted here. I'm going back to a straight SL5x5 program for 4-5 months.
I want to ask him what is fundamentally flawed about a simple program designed to build strength? And why it won't work for me??
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Thanks for your post calliope, it really helps to know I'm not the only one experiencing this kind of thing. I'll let you all know how I get on on Wednesday.0
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Apparently, it's not designed for 50yo woman who just want to retain muscle and build strength.
so what? most of LIFE isn't 'designed' for 50-yo women, if it comes to that. well, except maybe adult diapers and denture-safe gum, if you watch tv ads.
tell him to bite you, if you want my advice.0 -
My (ex) trainer tried to talk me out of it too. A lot of people who answered my questions made the good point that they don't want you to find a program that works for you that you can do on your own--more complicated programs=more sessions=more money.
As a few people mentioned above, there are great, educated trainers. But just like any service you contract, you should do your research and make sure you are a good fit. I wish I would I would have done a little more before signing on with the guy I did.....0 -
I am 52 and loving strong lifts 5x5..personally I would tell him to pound salt.Apparently, it's not designed for 50yo woman who just want to retain muscle and build strength.
so what? most of LIFE isn't 'designed' for 50-yo women, if it comes to that. well, except maybe adult diapers and denture-safe gum, if you watch tv ads.
tell him to bite you, if you want my advice.0 -
My (ex) trainer tried to talk me out of it too. A lot of people who answered my questions made the good point that they don't want you to find a program that works for you that you can do on your own--more complicated programs=more sessions=more money.
This! My gym just hired a whole bunch of new trainers and they were just swarming around all the people working out yesterday. This one super obnoxious guy cornered me in the rack and spent my entire workout bombarding me with questions about SL5x5, pestering me about why I did it, and telling me it only did half the job and I still needed a trainer to really see results, how iI need to add in accessories, blah blah blah. So annoying-I'm not gonna pay you dude, so just leave me alone. Took me like a good 20 minutes longer to do my workout cause he wouldn't stop talking and I couldn't get rid of him!0 -
This one super obnoxious guy cornered me in the rack and spent my entire workout bombarding me
sounds like he ought to be selling used cars. that would make me angry enough to pull the back-off-or-i'll-talk-to-the-owner on him.0 -
This one super obnoxious guy cornered me in the rack and spent my entire workout bombarding me
sounds like he ought to be selling used cars. that would make me angry enough to pull the back-off-or-i'll-talk-to-the-owner on him.
Pretty much! At the end when I could finally escape he's like ok, see you Wednesday?! Uhhh no thanks-if he's annoying again on Wednesday we're gonna have a problem!0 -
:laugh: @ "pound salt". Totally stealing that.
I am 52 and loving strong lifts 5x5..personally I would tell him to pound salt.Apparently, it's not designed for 50yo woman who just want to retain muscle and build strength.
so what? most of LIFE isn't 'designed' for 50-yo women, if it comes to that. well, except maybe adult diapers and denture-safe gum, if you watch tv ads.
tell him to bite you, if you want my advice.0 -
This one super obnoxious guy cornered me in the rack and spent my entire workout bombarding me with questions about SL5x5, pestering me about why I did it, and telling me it only did half the job and I still needed a trainer to really see results, how iI need to add in accessories, blah blah blah.
This would just piss me the hell off. You definitely need to tell him to pound salt on Wednesday!
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This! My gym just hired a whole bunch of new trainers and they were just swarming around all the people working out yesterday. This one super obnoxious guy cornered me in the rack and spent my entire workout bombarding me with questions about SL5x5, pestering me about why I did it, and telling me it only did half the job and I still needed a trainer to really see results, how iI need to add in accessories, blah blah blah. So annoying-I'm not gonna pay you dude, so just leave me alone. Took me like a good 20 minutes longer to do my workout cause he wouldn't stop talking and I couldn't get rid of him!
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Oh my gosh!!
I have had two PT sessions with the trainer at a local powerlifting gym. He had some ideas, totally respected my ideas, and when it was all said and done, he didn't even charge me for the sessions. I'm so glad I had been on here enough, and read enough horror stories about PTs that I sought out someone like that. Totally worth the money that he should have charged me
People with any kind of bodybuilding background, seem to have a really hard time losing the isolation exercise mentality. My partner, who is doing 5x5 with me, just cannot let go of the idea that we should be doing different kind of bench press exercises to "isolate different parts of the chest". He refuses to drive with his legs. Its funny. Glad hes not my PT, lol.0 -
Pretty much! At the end when I could finally escape he's like ok, see you Wednesday?! Uhhh no thanks-if he's annoying again on Wednesday we're gonna have a problem!
tell on him . . . honest. or at least tell him that you don't want to hear his **** and he'd better leave you alone. what the hell makes him think you're paying money to be hounded by someone like him? if you were in a restaurant and a waiter was undermining your meal choice so he could upsell you some kind of personal nutrition service, would you put up with it?
i can't wait to hear the update. i almost want him to go ahead and make everyone's (wednes)day for us :laugh:0 -
bear in mind that most PTs will try and talk you out of 5x5 as they want you to hire them and run their programme, its just business.
Do what you want to do, and if you have questions on form post a video on the form check post, plenty of knowledgeable women on here to help you correct any issues :bigsmile:0 -
Ok, update.
I had my short consultation with the PT this morning. He gave me some tips for improving my form on the bench press and squat (all we had time for). I'm going to research this and see if it agrees with other advice out there. He gave me some advice on nutrition and the best thing was he did some stretches on me which kind of released some tightness in my legs.
He did push me to try some different things, namely to do a front barbell squat (have I got that right?) and to use a different area of the gym for doing the bench press (i.e. not in the squat rack, but on a bench set up with the larger, longer 45lb barbell - he didn't believe me that there are a couple of 35lb barbells in the room, which I prefer to use).
The best thing was talking to someone else interested in weight-lifting. Made me reflect how, for me, it's all been online support and discussion so far.0
