crossfit and "core training"
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gweneddk
Posts: 183 Member
So, before CF I hadn't done a sit-up or crunch in years. My previous trainer used mostly slow, controlled movements like dead bugs, wall press abs, chops and lifts (anti-rotation), loaded carries, etc. I always thought sit-ups worked the hip flexors more than the core but they don't hurt me so for the rare occasion I've been asked to do them in CF I just do them.
Well, we did toes to bar both Friday and Monday. I actually have enjoyed working on them and did about 50 reps in each workout. But, I also managed to hurt my back on Monday and I think T2B contributed. So now I am pretty skittish about most of the exercises that tends to be programmed in CF for core work.
I found this article and it really resonated with me. http://themovementfix.com/the-4-exercises-your-low-back-is-better-without/
The problem with most core exercises is that they actually work better if you use a slow, controlled movement, which doesn't jive with CF's idea of moving as quickly as possible. I am going to have to think about this some more and figure out what I might be able to do when a WOD calls for T2B/situps.
Here are my biggest takeaways from the article. Would love to hear your thoughts.
"What do you care more about? How fast you can kick your feet to a pull up bar or how much you can squat, deadlift, clean, and snatch? I think most people would agree: lifting stuff. So we have to ask ourselves the following question: what is the biggest issue we see in the deadlift, squat, clean, and snatch? The low back rounds."
"Don’t train the spine to generate power. Power gets generated at the hips."
Well, we did toes to bar both Friday and Monday. I actually have enjoyed working on them and did about 50 reps in each workout. But, I also managed to hurt my back on Monday and I think T2B contributed. So now I am pretty skittish about most of the exercises that tends to be programmed in CF for core work.
I found this article and it really resonated with me. http://themovementfix.com/the-4-exercises-your-low-back-is-better-without/
The problem with most core exercises is that they actually work better if you use a slow, controlled movement, which doesn't jive with CF's idea of moving as quickly as possible. I am going to have to think about this some more and figure out what I might be able to do when a WOD calls for T2B/situps.
Here are my biggest takeaways from the article. Would love to hear your thoughts.
"What do you care more about? How fast you can kick your feet to a pull up bar or how much you can squat, deadlift, clean, and snatch? I think most people would agree: lifting stuff. So we have to ask ourselves the following question: what is the biggest issue we see in the deadlift, squat, clean, and snatch? The low back rounds."
"Don’t train the spine to generate power. Power gets generated at the hips."
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Replies
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So I just read the article and it makes sense. A friend of a friend expressed how he lifts regularly, and is probably less than 5% body fat, and he never does crunches or sit ups, but has a full six pack! I was actually surprised when I started crossfit a few months ago that ab mat sit ups are a typical crossfit workout. What I try to do instead as part of my warm up are knee ups, which is pretty much hanging on the bar, keeping my back straight, and pulling my knees to my chest. Not sure if this causes my lower back to curve or not, but I feel it more than doing sit ups... so who knows.
I would have to agree with the article because I don't think doing sit ups is going to give me a six pack, personally. It is very contradictory, as the article points out, that most lifting moves require a straight back, and most ab exercises require a rounded back; such as T2B and SUs. But on the other hand, we need a strong core to lift, so what is the best way to develop a strong core without T2B or SUs?
For me, at this time in my crossfit journey, I am just happy to finish a WOD. I don't worry too much about the weight I lift as long as my form is perfect.
Anyhow, thanks for the interesting information.
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This is very interesting, I had never thought about this before. At my box, we have those little low back cushions they make us use when doing sit ups which helps with back arching not back rounding. Though we don't do many sit ups in WODs, I can see what you are saying with needing more core strength for the lifts so our backs are straight. I like doing accessory work at my other gyms like planks, mountain climbers, hyperextensions, bridges etc. to help with some core strength since I feel we don't do many sit-ups or T2B at my box.0
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It's interesting, but I don't like the way it's written. Author feels the need to state and restate his qualifications (he does that in the video too, placing emphasis on 'Doctor') and how much better he is than you at Crossfit. It's good information though, even if he does start with a question (the 4 exercises your back can do without) and then doesn't conclude the article well by actually telling us which exercises he's objecting to. He alludes to it, and you can figure it out, but if you start with a question then you need to be sure to answer it. But I digress...
If you watch the video, skip past the beginning where they waffle for what feels like forever to the actual exercises. Best part is the cat!
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I would say this: I did tons of slow, control core work and nothing changed my body like good old-fashioned sit ups. I know it works your hips and lower back too but I know people say you can't spot reduce, but I swear I did. I came into CF from pole dancing so I had a strong core accustomed to slow controlled movements, but when I started doing old fashioned situps, my shape changed completely. I was already also running and lifting before CF.
I compete so I have to do TTB. I also lift. I don't see the two as being at odds. I just train both. I still do yoga and lots of things like hollow rocks, hollow holds, and planks. We do a lot of sit ups, too. I think there is risk and reward to most everything. If something doesn't work for your goals, don't do it.0 -
It's interesting, but I don't like the way it's written. Author feels the need to state and restate his qualifications (he does that in the video too, placing emphasis on 'Doctor') and how much better he is than you at Crossfit. It's good information though, even if he does start with a question (the 4 exercises your back can do without) and then doesn't conclude the article well by actually telling us which exercises he's objecting to. He alludes to it, and you can figure it out, but if you start with a question then you need to be sure to answer it. But I digress...
If you watch the video, skip past the beginning where they waffle for what feels like forever to the actual exercises. Best part is the cat!
I didn't actually watch the video because I read it on my phone. I've read so many fitness articles written in a purposely inflammatory or polarizing tone that the way this article was written didn't bother me too much, but I can see your point. He does mention the 4 exercises in the 5th paragraph of the introduction, but I agree that maybe he could have reiterated them towards the end. Of the 4, my box really only does T2B/knees to elbow. We don't have abmats or a GHD. One regression for T2B is V-ups, which might end up being my preferred substitute. I know I PERSONALLY can't do T2B without an obscene amount of rounding in my low back, because I have short arms and long legs.
Sorry if I came across as attacking anyone who trains T2B or situps--I mostly posted this because I wanted to see if others had considered this when deciding which exercises are best for their own goals. If you compete and your competitions have T2B, then by all means train them. Considering that I will pretty much have to take an entire week off after my latest back pain flare up, I think I am going to do all that I can to prevent that from happening again.
Kelly, very interesting that you saw positive changes with sit ups! We used to do a lot of them when I was in ROTC and I've always felt them in my hip flexors more than anything. But it's very cool that you have found them helpful, and I think it goes to show that not every trainee has the same adaptations/reactions to any particular exercise. (which is why powerlifters don't all use the same accessory movements, etc.)0 -
I would say this: I did tons of slow, control core work and nothing changed my body like good old-fashioned sit ups. I know it works your hips and lower back too but I know people say you can't spot reduce, but I swear I did. I came into CF from pole dancing so I had a strong core accustomed to slow controlled movements, but when I started doing old fashioned situps, my shape changed completely. I was already also running and lifting before CF.
I compete so I have to do TTB. I also lift. I don't see the two as being at odds. I just train both. I still do yoga and lots of things like hollow rocks, hollow holds, and planks. We do a lot of sit ups, too. I think there is risk and reward to most everything. If something doesn't work for your goals, don't do it.
Pole dancing huh?
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I would say this: I did tons of slow, control core work and nothing changed my body like good old-fashioned sit ups. I know it works your hips and lower back too but I know people say you can't spot reduce, but I swear I did. I came into CF from pole dancing so I had a strong core accustomed to slow controlled movements, but when I started doing old fashioned situps, my shape changed completely. I was already also running and lifting before CF.
I compete so I have to do TTB. I also lift. I don't see the two as being at odds. I just train both. I still do yoga and lots of things like hollow rocks, hollow holds, and planks. We do a lot of sit ups, too. I think there is risk and reward to most everything. If something doesn't work for your goals, don't do it.
Pole dancing huh?
Yep, I think powerlifters should all pole dance for accessory work, too. Plus, when you start CF from pole dancing, you already have the hand calluses ready to roll. Best core stuff ever. I don't know anything about sexy floor work or anything creepy. I just did gymnastic tricks on poles and we didn't wear high heels or anything cliche...just tank tops and CF style booty shorts. I'd probably have pull ups if I were still pole dancing.0 -
I would post one of those gifs of The Rock raising one eyebrow if I knew how to do it0
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Seen vids on Youtube of some really skilled poledancers. Those ladies are strong! And not dressed like strippers.
This post got me thinking about my on-bike posture again. Look how rounded the back is! http://www.bikeradar.com/beginners/gear/article/how-to-get-your-road-bike-position-right-39738/
I've been focusing on flattening out my lower back a bit. Definitely feeling less strain that way. I think I'm over stretching a bit too, need a shorter stem.0 -
I'm just teasing ladies. I have some friends who do it and they are strong as all getout.0
