All Pro's Intermediate 1

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pandorakick
pandorakick Posts: 901 Member
Besides the Simple Beginners Routine (SBR) All Pro also posted a series of 4 intermediate workout routines. The original thread can be found here:
http://forum.bodybuilding.com/showthread.php?t=135025731&page=1

Regarding progression or cycling of these set ups All Pro mentioned the below:
The first one is the easiest to set up. It's just straight line linear progression. When it stops working or you get tired of it.....and you will try the next one. You could probably run a few cycles of #1, then a few of #2 then a few of #3 and then come back to number 1. Number 4 is for the truly insane. If you're playing football, flag foot ball, hockey, rugby or any other heavy contact speed, strength power sport that is the program for you.......provided of course you've already run the other 5x5s.
And it ain't to shabby at packing on mass and strength. It just might not look to pretty but then that's what the other programs are for.
For clarity's sake I will post separate threads for each of the Intermediate routines. 
All Pro's Intermediate 1

Work out 1
Squats, bench press and bent over rows for a total of 4 sets.
Set 1 @ 25% of work set weight for 10 reps. 
Set 2 @ 50% of work set weight for 10 reps.
Set 3 @ 100% for 5 reps. 
Set 4 add the weight of set 1 and set 2 together and do 10 reps with it. 

Any assistance work you do 1 set of 8 reps then reduce the weight by 
half and do 1 set of 20 reps. The assistance work can be ANYTHING that you think you need. I always include stiff leg dead lifts, shoulder press and curls.

Work out 2
Use the exact same weight that you used for work out 1 BUT do 3 sets of 5 instead of 1 set of 5 and don't do the 10 rep set. 
For the assistance work use the same weight and go for 12 reps. Anytime that you can complete all of the assigned reps add 10 pounds for the next week. It's a big jump but more on this in a moment. 

Continue to push it for 3 weeks. 
Week 4 is a deload week. On week 4 reduce the work set weight to 75% of what you've been using and do just 1 work set. No 10 rep set and no assistance work. 
To start the next cycle if you were failing to complete every set of a given exercise then you reduce the weight by 30 pounds for week 1 for work out 2 only. You should never be failing to complete the reps on work out 1. 

If you're an athlete then power cleans are the first exercise of every work out. I set them up with 4 sets. 25%/50%/75%/100% for 3 reps on work out 1, then use the same weight for work out 2 and push it for 5 reps.

What I've just laid out is Soviet dual factor, mixed qualities training. It's confusing to read and that's why I've been avoiding writing it up.

A quick example of the 3 core exercises.
Work out 1
50 pounds x 10, 100 pounds x 10, 200 pounds x 5, 150 pounds x 10
Work out 2
50 pounds x 10, 100 pounds x 10, 200 pounds x 5 x 3
Deload week
Work out 1
50 pounds x 10, 100 pounds x 10, 150 pounds x 5
Work out 2
50 pounds x 10, 100 pounds x 10, 150 pounds x 5

Replies

  • pandorakick
    pandorakick Posts: 901 Member
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    Here a FAQ I compiled from the various posts over at bodybuilding.com:

    FAQ

    Q: With what weight should I start this routine?
    A: You're testing for a 1x5 rep max weight on your first work out. Start at least 5% less than your 5 rep max. On the second work out you're trying to get 3x5 with that weight. It's a very steady pounding. On week 4 you deload. It's the same type of set up for the assistance work except that it's in the 8-10 rep range. When you get tired of beating yourself up you change programs.

    Q: All pro, I am unsure on what the progression is in program 1 from cycle to cycle. Do you start the next cycle with the weights you used in week 3 of the previous cycle?
    A: For program 1, the first work out you do 1x5. On work out 2 you use the same weight and try to do 3x5. When you can, add 10 pounds (2.5 or 5%). Use the same simple set up for all of the assistance work. If you run this program long term then after the deload week start the next cycle with 10 pounds (2.5% for main lifts / 5% assistance) less. So at week 1 you're at -10, week 2 your even, week 3 at +10, week 4 deload. You'll know when you need to start doing this because the lift will stall even after the deload. If your lifts are below 100 pounds, up with 5 instead of 10 pounds.

    Q: How many assistance exercises is too few/too many?
    A: There is no limit. Some people can stand training for 2 hours and others are in trouble after an hour. That's why intermediate and above programs aren't cast in stone. At this level the laws of individuality begin to show up. I always suggest adding things one at a time for 1 set each. At this level that means upper push + upper pull + legs. So you could try adding as many as 3 exercises per cycle. All you have to do is decide where you need the work.

    Q: ... "Anytime that you can complete all of the assigned reps add 10 pounds for the next week."
    Could I go by a % of the weight for my progression? My numbers are pretty low to add 10 lbs to. BTW I have microplates and can progress with as little as 2.5lbs if necessary.
    If so what % would I use for the increase AND what % would I use to drop back if I failed to get all the reps(like mentioned below)? 

    ..."To start the next cycle if you were failing to complete every set of a given exercise then you reduce the weight by 30 pounds for week 1 for work out 2 only."
    -is this true for assistance exercises too?
    -so on week 2 workout 2 you go back to that weight that you were failing to get all the reps?
    -what about light weight DB exercises? For example: I went from using 10# to #15 DBs for lateral raises....what if I can't get all 12 reps? Cycle 2 workout 1 I would use the 15s...then what would I drop back to for workout 2?

    A: The spread between 1x5 and 3x5 is 5%. You can play it safe and go up by 2.5% each time you get all 3 sets of 5. It will keep you in the middle. The spread between 8 and 12 reps is about 10%. Going up by 5% will keep you in the middle. That means that on the first work out, when you're finished you have 2 reps in the tank. On the second work out, It's on like donkey kong! Kick it's butt!

    Q: In intermediate#1 can I sub conventional deadlift for squat and then keep front squats as an assistance exercise? (to make sure the quads are hit.) And if so should I keep/drop SLDL as an assistance lift?
    A: YUP! Do it. Try it with the SLDLs and see what happens.

    Q: What are the rest time between sets? 
    A: 1 minute between the first and second warm up set, maybe 1:30 between the second warm up set and the work sets. 2 minutes in between the 5 rep work sets.

    Q: I noticed that program 1 is twice a week. Is that enough load/volume to truly grow in strength and size?
    A: 1 or 4. I've used both. 4 will add a lot of mass very quickly if you eat heavy. BUT it wont be all lean. So at some point you'll have to switch up, probably 2 or 3 and add more assistance work where yo need it most. 4 is my favorite for adding strength, speed, power and mass. BUT it's a killer as it starts to get heavy!
    For a clean bulk, #2. Size gains will be a bit slower but a lot leaner. This is why I suggested cycling through these programs.

    Q: Regarding training 3 times x week, do you have any advice or suggestion? How would you twick this routine to work 3 times per week?
    A: Put all of your flexibility, cardio and ab work into a middle work out.

    Q: What if I fail to get all reps in?
    A: There are several options:
    -one option was the 3 strikes rule....if you fail to get all the reps after 3 attempts *then* reduce the weight.
    -another option was only reducing the weight for WO#2
  • jasonheyd
    jasonheyd Posts: 524 Member
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    Anyone out there try this routine?

    I decided to give it a go but, after W1 (Work out 1), I'm considering tweaking it to an ABA-BAB cycle.

    Tonight's work-out felt light compared to what I've been doing (ICF 5x5), although I'm pretty sure W2 is going to be a killer. I figure I'll see how I feel after that & decide if I want to try a 2nd run of W1 this week.

    The plan would be do go Tu/Th/Sa as W1/W2/W1 and then the following week Tu/Th/Sa as W2/W1/W2.
  • jimmmer
    jimmmer Posts: 3,515 Member
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    Anyone out there try this routine?

    I decided to give it a go but, after W1 (Work out 1), I'm considering tweaking it to an ABA-BAB cycle.

    Tonight's work-out felt light compared to what I've been doing (ICF 5x5), although I'm pretty sure W2 is going to be a killer. I figure I'll see how I feel after that & decide if I want to try a 2nd run of W1 this week.

    The plan would be do go Tu/Th/Sa as W1/W2/W1 and then the following week Tu/Th/Sa as W2/W1/W2.

    Pandora ran it for a couple of cycles before she hopped onto #2.

    I'm also doing a (heavily-modded) version of #2 as well (I wanted to do conventional deads, front squats and power cleans). Actually, it doesn't look much like #2 anymore, except for the fact it's upper/lower and uses soviet dual factor rep progression.

    Personally I'd go mad with 2x a week. Not sure, but I think Pandora did an extra day? She'll show up soon and put me right!
  • pandorakick
    pandorakick Posts: 901 Member
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    Anyone out there try this routine?

    I decided to give it a go but, after W1 (Work out 1), I'm considering tweaking it to an ABA-BAB cycle.

    Tonight's work-out felt light compared to what I've been doing (ICF 5x5), although I'm pretty sure W2 is going to be a killer. I figure I'll see how I feel after that & decide if I want to try a 2nd run of W1 this week.

    The plan would be do go Tu/Th/Sa as W1/W2/W1 and then the following week Tu/Th/Sa as W2/W1/W2.
    Jimmer is right, I did adapt API 1 to 3 workouts per week because I felt 2 workouts not to be enough. Especially because I just started my bulk then and felt that additional volume would benefit my goals. I changed the order from W1, rest, W2 to W1, rest, W1, rest, rest, W2, rest.

    That said, All Pro did say somewhere in the thread over al bodybuilding.com to put all mobility, cardio and ab work in a middle workout if 3 workouts per week are desired. This is what I also put down in the FAQ. In intermediate and above routines things are however never cast in stone: every routine should be tailored to your specific goals and physical possibilities / limitations. In that respect it is best to take these intermediate routines and their rep & progression schemes as a starting point to make something that is just right for you.

    You are always welcome to post your routine for feedback!
  • jimmmer
    jimmmer Posts: 3,515 Member
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    That said, All Pro did say somewhere in the thread over al bodybuilding.com to put all mobility, cardio and ab work in a middle workout if 3 workouts per week are desired. This is what I also put down in the FAQ. In intermediate and above routines things are however never cast in stone: every routine should be tailored to your specific goals and physical possibilities / limitations. In that respect it is best to take these intermediate routines and their rep & progression schemes as a starting point to make something that is just right for you.

    You are always welcome to post your routine for feedback!

    Word!

    Jason, at this stage you need to finagle the programming to get something that works for you. I guess it's true that we're all special snowflakes after all!

    If you feel that the increased volume fits your goals (and, more importantly, is something you can recover from) then go for it. You also have the option of a mid-week "variety day" as Pandora says. Put speedwork, agility drills, conditioning, etc the list is endless and can be customised to your specific needs.

    Anyway, All Pro would have said try it out and see how you go.
  • pandorakick
    pandorakick Posts: 901 Member
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    Anyway, All Pro would have said try it out and see how you go.
    Agreed! :flowerforyou:
  • jasonheyd
    jasonheyd Posts: 524 Member
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    Thanks for the feedback folks. :)

    I did notice AP's suggestion to drop cardio stuff into the middle for a three-day, but I've actually been running on "rest" days.

    I didn't love "Workout 1" but I think I'll see how hard W2 hits me and then decide. I may end up going AAB rather than ABA-BAB, try one of AP's other intermediates or just jump back to ICF for a while.

    Thanks again!
  • wayofthedrummer
    wayofthedrummer Posts: 2 Member
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    Jimmmerrrrrr!!! Good to see you here - remember me from the All Pro Simple Beginner Routine thread on BB.com (username: diddlysquat)? How's fatherhood?? We had a baby girl in July and man do those disturbed nights hurt recovery.

    I'm actually still doing the beginner routine, although I've switched squat/bench/rows/military press to 3 sets per workout in the 4-8 range. Feel like my strength is lagging a bit so hoping it'll help. I'm also on a cut which obviously is a big factor too.

    Anyway, apologies for hijacking the thread. I think I may well be switching to one of these intermediate routines in the next month or two so I'm keen to see how the folks here are getting on with it. What prompted you to switch?
  • jimmmer
    jimmmer Posts: 3,515 Member
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    Jimmmerrrrrr!!! Good to see you here - remember me from the All Pro Simple Beginner Routine thread on BB.com (username: diddlysquat)? How's fatherhood?? We had a baby girl in July and man do those disturbed nights hurt recovery.

    I'm actually still doing the beginner routine, although I've switched squat/bench/rows/military press to 3 sets per workout in the 4-8 range. Feel like my strength is lagging a bit so hoping it'll help. I'm also on a cut which obviously is a big factor too.

    Anyway, apologies for hijacking the thread. I think I may well be switching to one of these intermediate routines in the next month or two so I'm keen to see how the folks here are getting on with it. What prompted you to switch?

    Good, man! Yeah, she's 5 months old now - Born August 21st. Congrats to you, too!

    Yeah, I switch onto Dan John's Even Easier Strength for a while, very low volume (easy to cope with very little sleep!). Then I did a few rotations of kettlebell work/sprinting for a couple of months. Then when I got back under a bar again before Christmas I started with Inter #2. Just trying to get my lifts up again, cut some weight, be a good father. As I said above somewhere, I wanted to do Front Squats, Power Cleans and Conventional Deads, so I'm not strictly doing inter #2, but there you go.

    I could have gone back to linear progression again (maybe a 5x5, or something?) but I guess my lifts will catch up in time anyway and the slower progression goes hand-in-hand with a cut.... I calculate I'll be honing in on a 3x BW Deadlift for reps by the end of this year/early next year (If I can get out of this cut and I continue to progress). So that's where I'm heading hopefully: low bf% and a bigger DL.
  • jasonheyd
    jasonheyd Posts: 524 Member
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    So, quick update:

    W1 Tuesday, running last night, W2 tonight. Tonight felt pretty good considering it's just a one hour session (ICF runs close to two hours). I've got lots of accessory stuff rolled in (OHP, shrugs, SLDL, skull-crushers, calf raises, straight bar curl -- basically carried over from ICF) and I can definitely feel the 12/20-rep sets of those after I'm done.

    Think I'll go with the ABA-BAB format starting next M/W/F, and throw some short runs in Tu/Th. My guess is it'll kill me as soon as I start increasing the weight, but what the he__!
  • pandorakick
    pandorakick Posts: 901 Member
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    So, quick update:

    W1 Tuesday, running last night, W2 tonight. Tonight felt pretty good considering it's just a one hour session (ICF runs close to two hours). I've got lots of accessory stuff rolled in (OHP, shrugs, SLDL, skull-crushers, calf raises, straight bar curl -- basically carried over from ICF) and I can definitely feel the 12/20-rep sets of those after I'm done.

    Think I'll go with the ABA-BAB format starting next M/W/F, and throw some short runs in Tu/Th. My guess is it'll kill me as soon as I start increasing the weight, but what the he__!
    Please let us know in a couple of weeks how the ABA BAB style works for you!
  • jimmmer
    jimmmer Posts: 3,515 Member
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    Please let us know in a couple of weeks how the ABA BAB style works for you!

    Definately! I'm always interested in how programmes/programming works out for people.

    Jason, sorry if I missed it, but are you still intending to cut on this routine? Be interested to see how it goes if you are. Believe P was bulking when she did it...
  • jasonheyd
    jasonheyd Posts: 524 Member
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    Please let us know in a couple of weeks how the ABA BAB style works for you!

    Definately! I'm always interested in how programmes/programming works out for people.

    Jason, sorry if I missed it, but are you still intending to cut on this routine? Be interested to see how it goes if you are. Believe P was bulking when she did it...

    I'm on a minor cut, yeah... I tend to eat below calorie target on running days and at calorie target on lifting days... Heavy on the complex carbs before workouts, heavy on protein after.
  • jimmmer
    jimmmer Posts: 3,515 Member
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    Please let us know in a couple of weeks how the ABA BAB style works for you!

    Definately! I'm always interested in how programmes/programming works out for people.

    Jason, sorry if I missed it, but are you still intending to cut on this routine? Be interested to see how it goes if you are. Believe P was bulking when she did it...

    I'm on a minor cut, yeah... I tend to eat below calorie target on running days and at calorie target on lifting days... Heavy on the complex carbs before workouts, heavy on protein after.

    Ah, so not such a drastic cut then. Almost sounds like you're nudging just below maintenance...

    Reckon you could continue to make good progress for a very long while eating like that. Proof of the pudding is in the eating though!
  • jasonheyd
    jasonheyd Posts: 524 Member
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    I'm on a minor cut, yeah... I tend to eat below calorie target on running days and at calorie target on lifting days... Heavy on the complex carbs before workouts, heavy on protein after.

    Ah, so not such a drastic cut then. Almost sounds like you're nudging just below maintenance...

    Reckon you could continue to make good progress for a very long while eating like that. Proof of the pudding is in the eating though!

    Mmm... pudding.

    Yeah, minor cut. I could probably stand to drop 5-10 lbs, but I'm still "newbie" enough that my weight's going down & lean mass is going up, even at a slight deficit. Might as well take advantage of it while I can. ;-)
  • wayofthedrummer
    wayofthedrummer Posts: 2 Member
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    Jimmmerrrrrr!!! Good to see you here - remember me from the All Pro Simple Beginner Routine thread on BB.com (username: diddlysquat)? How's fatherhood?? We had a baby girl in July and man do those disturbed nights hurt recovery.

    I'm actually still doing the beginner routine, although I've switched squat/bench/rows/military press to 3 sets per workout in the 4-8 range. Feel like my strength is lagging a bit so hoping it'll help. I'm also on a cut which obviously is a big factor too.

    Anyway, apologies for hijacking the thread. I think I may well be switching to one of these intermediate routines in the next month or two so I'm keen to see how the folks here are getting on with it. What prompted you to switch?

    Good, man! Yeah, she's 5 months old now - Born August 21st. Congrats to you, too!

    Yeah, I switch onto Dan John's Even Easier Strength for a while, very low volume (easy to cope with very little sleep!). Then I did a few rotations of kettlebell work/sprinting for a couple of months. Then when I got back under a bar again before Christmas I started with Inter #2. Just trying to get my lifts up again, cut some weight, be a good father. As I said above somewhere, I wanted to do Front Squats, Power Cleans and Conventional Deads, so I'm not strictly doing inter #2, but there you go.

    I could have gone back to linear progression again (maybe a 5x5, or something?) but I guess my lifts will catch up in time anyway and the slower progression goes hand-in-hand with a cut.... I calculate I'll be honing in on a 3x BW Deadlift for reps by the end of this year/early next year (If I can get out of this cut and I continue to progress). So that's where I'm heading hopefully: low bf% and a bigger DL.

    Glad all is well with you. 3x BW deadlift is a great goal - although it sounds like something very far out of my reach for a long time!

    Oh by the way, hi to everyone else on this thread! I just bit the bullet and switched to All Pro Intermediate #1 this week - I really enjoyed workout #1 on Tuesday. Tomorrow is workout #2. Should be interesting - especially on a calorie deficit!
  • pandorakick
    pandorakick Posts: 901 Member
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    Fingers crossed!
  • mikhou
    mikhou Posts: 1
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    Just curious if anybody is still running this program. I used it a couple of years ago to lift 2x per week while also training for a half-marathon, and it worked great. I'm thinking of going back to it though without the distance training. I'll mainly be adding sprints 2x per week and doing frequency method pushups and chinups. My goal is not to get big, but it's primarily gpp. Thanks.
  • watto1980
    watto1980 Posts: 155 Member
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    mikhou wrote: »
    Just curious if anybody is still running this program. I used it a couple of years ago to lift 2x per week while also training for a half-marathon, and it worked great. I'm thinking of going back to it though without the distance training. I'll mainly be adding sprints 2x per week and doing frequency method pushups and chinups. My goal is not to get big, but it's primarily gpp. Thanks.

    I just started the routine, it seems pretty good. I'm following the LT version though, for 12 weeks. It's the one with the 4 work sets - S1. 5reps, S2. 10reps, S3. 15reps and S4. 20reps. Set 3 and 4 are an endurance test for set 1 and 2. Add weight to S3 & S4 in week 1, if you hit reps then add weight to S1 & S2 for weeks 2, 3 & 4 before repeating the cycle. It is pretty brutal, I am adding a mid-week cardio day to help cope better with the high rep sets. Coming off a 3x6 powerlifting routine it was a shock to the system!