Stick with SL5x5 or change to PHUL

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christch
christch Posts: 238 Member
Ok so I've been working on SL 5x5 for a number of months now -probably 8 months now. The last 12 weeks I've been working at hypertrophy, first 6weeks at 8 reps last 6 wks 12 reps. Reason for this was I only had dumbbells to work with and no rack. Last 6 weeks I've been in a gym with rack and barbell and have been doing a mix of hypertrophy and strength range lifting. Still working with a progressive overload though.
I've never run SL as an A B A program always done all lifts in one session as this is what I'd been doing with my pt. Already doing accessory lifts now.

Last night's lifts
Leg press 5x8 20kg single leg
Leg extensions 3x10 17.5kg
Hammy curl 3x10 17.5kg
Front squats 2x5 35,5x5 40,2x10 30kg
Bench 1x10 30,4x5 1x4 35kg failed last lift
Lat pulldown 3x5 40 kg
Seated row 3x5 40kg
Skullcrusher 3x15 8kg
Db flyes 3x15 8kg
Preacher curls 3x10 17.5 kg
Takes around 1hr 20 at moment to get through everything.
DL other night 1x5 50,60,2x3 70,4 72.5, 2x3 75

So as you can see I'm getting through alot in a session and starting to think I need to start doing a split program upper and lower. If I keep going with hypertrophy I'm not progressing very quickly with weight.

What do suggest I do? I really want to keep progressing and don't want to spin my wheels.

Replies

  • Sumiblue
    Sumiblue Posts: 1,597 Member
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    I switched to PHUL when I felt like I was spinning my wheels. I couldn't progress past 110 squats & 155 DLs without form suffering. I think I needed more rest time but also more volume. So far it's working for me and I'm enjoying it.
  • DawnEmbers
    DawnEmbers Posts: 2,451 Member
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    I switched as well for a few reasons. After NROLFW I went back to SL but more of the 5x3 instead of doing 5x5 on a lot of the moves as at a certain point any increase is challenging, even got close to issues with squat and deadlift by then. I did a couple of lifts extra on occasion, like leg press or good mornings, but always kept to the A day and B day. While squats every day are fun, it felt like a good time to take a little break so that I didn't do them all of the time. Plus, with running being on maintenance instead of building up distance, I could lift 4 days a week. PHUL had a lot of things I liked to do, with a few extras that eh, I guessed I could put up with (biceps and calves).

    I also like having the power days versus the hypertrophy even though I'm still working on the deficit. Not successful at the moment but will start focus and weighing foods in January. One day I'll be either maintenance or bulking, but for now it's the deficit and still liking the program.

    My increases are slow, in particular with upper body, and that's okay. Would have been slow with either program. Plus, I kind of like doing front squats and working on my wrist strength because one day I want to learn snatch and jerk.
  • andylllI
    andylllI Posts: 379 Member
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    I switched to PHUL because squats had a major stall and I just couldn't face failing at heavy squats 3x a week. Also I can use the hypertrophy day to tailor accessories to fix imbalances and problems (lots of single leg and single arm exercises to choose from). I am keeping the base of PHUL in terms of sets reps and muscle group but adapting the exercises to suit my needs and goals.

    I'm not sure I should have switched from a beginner program so soon, my core lifts never got to "intermediate" classification weights in relation to my body weight. But I figure i need to enjoy my workouts of I'm going to keep doing them. I have a lot of issues that impede recovery (very young children long work hours poor sleep) and I just started never feeling ready for my next work out.

    The other factor is I work out with my husband and PHUL lets him go all bro and he likes it much better than starting strength, which is what we started with.
  • christch
    christch Posts: 238 Member
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    I don't think I'm lifting heavy enough to be classed as anything other than a beginner even though I've been lifting almost a year now. Still progressing and not stalling at moment.
  • Sumiblue
    Sumiblue Posts: 1,597 Member
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    Make sure you give your body time to rest and repair between workouts. Sounds like you are doing a lot in one workout. I'm still sore from my last lower body workout days ago. I was supposed to do Lower Power yesterday but I took an extra rest day so I don't injure myself. Muscles get repaired on rest days. I'm lifting at Intermediate on some lifts and novice on others. But I'm on a deficit and could lift more if I ate more. I could not progress on SL anymore and squatting every workout was making me not look forward to workouts.
  • krokador
    krokador Posts: 1,794 Member
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    Bit late to the party here, but my two cents on this is that you gotta do what you can and will stick to.

    The way you're shoving every lifts into every session makes it highly likely you'll burn out eventually, so you're going to have to make changes either way before you run yourself into a wall.

    PHUL is not necessarily an intermediate program. You can still use linear progression with it and do the deloads when you can't hit a certain weight for a while on the big lifts. The hypertrophy days work a different energy system. You get a bit more recovery time due to it being a split. It would still take me 1.5+ hours to get through a session but as I have realized lately, I'm so used to pure strength work I don't really time my rests and I end up resting too long, lol.

    There are plenty of other programs out there, too. None of them will be perfect, but they all have the potential to work if you put in the work. It depends on your goals, really. The way I see it, PHUL is a bit of a jack-of-all-trades in terms of muscle and strength building as well as fat loss. The one thing it DOESN'T do is overall conditioning & bodyweight proficiency. That can always be fixed, though. If that's what you're after then you should at least try it out :) (Just don't modify the program too much when first starting out. If you end up doing 3 more exercises per session, you might as well pick something else, y'know?)

    Also: If this keeps up this group will be come PHUL for women hahaha xD
  • andylllI
    andylllI Posts: 379 Member
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    Re conditioning: I do the hypertrophy days as circuits 3-4 exercises resting for 20-30 seconds after each circuit. That is definitely conditioning and I'm still using weights that would leave me with only 1-2 reps in the tank.
  • christch
    christch Posts: 238 Member
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    Thanks for all your commonsense advice :) you are right in whatever I do it needs to be manageable. I think I'll give PHUL a go and see what happens. I'll also talk with my pt and get his advice. I really want to increase the amount I'm lifting and to be able to lift as heavy as some of you do, I just have to remember that I haven't been doing this very long and have made good progress so far and that maybe age is against me.
  • SideSteel
    SideSteel Posts: 11,068 Member
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    I may have some opinions on this but in order to give them I need to ask you two questions first.

    1) Why do you lift weights?
    2) What is your main goal with lifting weights?
  • christch
    christch Posts: 238 Member
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    I lift because it's exercise I can do. I don't overly like cardio, and I struggle with the whole coordination thing involved to do alot of class based exercise. It's a way to deal with stress in my job and I can push myself,set goals/challenges and meet them.
    I hated looking 'skinny fat' (5'10 68kg) and knew I needed to build muscle if I wanted to 'look ok'.

    Main goal, I suppose is to gain 5kg muscle/lose 5% bf. I'd also like to be able to bench 50kg, squat 70 kg and DL my husband's weight - 85kg.
    My job means I have to lift babies and toddlers and some of them are 15-20kg so I have to be able to so this without hurting my back.
  • SideSteel
    SideSteel Posts: 11,068 Member
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    christch wrote: »
    Ok so I've been working on SL 5x5 for a number of months now -probably 8 months now. The last 12 weeks I've been working at hypertrophy, first 6weeks at 8 reps last 6 wks 12 reps. Reason for this was I only had dumbbells to work with and no rack. Last 6 weeks I've been in a gym with rack and barbell and have been doing a mix of hypertrophy and strength range lifting. Still working with a progressive overload though.
    I've never run SL as an A B A program always done all lifts in one session as this is what I'd been doing with my pt. Already doing accessory lifts now.

    Last night's lifts
    Leg press 5x8 20kg single leg
    Leg extensions 3x10 17.5kg
    Hammy curl 3x10 17.5kg
    Front squats 2x5 35,5x5 40,2x10 30kg
    Bench 1x10 30,4x5 1x4 35kg failed last lift
    Lat pulldown 3x5 40 kg
    Seated row 3x5 40kg
    Skullcrusher 3x15 8kg
    Db flyes 3x15 8kg
    Preacher curls 3x10 17.5 kg
    Takes around 1hr 20 at moment to get through everything.
    DL other night 1x5 50,60,2x3 70,4 72.5, 2x3 75

    So as you can see I'm getting through alot in a session and starting to think I need to start doing a split program upper and lower. If I keep going with hypertrophy I'm not progressing very quickly with weight.

    What do suggest I do? I really want to keep progressing and don't want to spin my wheels.

    Are you doing the above in this order, and you're replacing back squat with front squat in this particular day?

    Are you stalling out on a given lift (I see a missed rep on bench) or is there another concern/reason to switch to PHUL?

  • christch
    christch Posts: 238 Member
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    Normally start with DL then front squat, bench, upper body then end with leg extensions, curls. If I can't do DL sub with leg press.
    Can't do back squats as I have a problem loading lower back due to one leg longer than other causing pelvic tilt.

    I have been only lifting 35kg for the last 3lifting sessions and the night before I managed all 5x5 also got 2x37.5kg.
    Haven't really stalled on any lifts really yet, though it takes normally 3 weeks from the time I start a new weight i.e 1 or 2 reps til I can successful lift it for 5x5 or 3x8.

    There is no particular reason for changing other than the fact I'm doing alot of other lifts aside from the 5 main compound lifts, so what I'm doing is more like PHUL. And doing it all in one session rather than a split.
  • SideSteel
    SideSteel Posts: 11,068 Member
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    So you could try PHUL if you'd like to, but another thing you could do is just not do so many exercises.

    If you wanted to train more than 3 days per week you could also do that but still maintain high squat frequency if you would like.

    Something like

    1
    Squat
    Bench
    Deadlift
    Upper Accessory
    Lower Accessory

    2
    Squat
    Bench
    Row
    Upper Accessory
    Lower Accessory

    3
    Squat
    Bench
    Deadlift
    Lower Accessory
    Lower Accessory

    4 (back to back day with 3)
    Upper Hypertrophy exercises, 4-6 total. Do at least 1 vertical press here.


    Then within that you could periodize the squat and bench such that:

    day 1: Hyper (3-4x 8-12) Moderate load, 60-75%RM
    Day 2 Power/Recovery/Technique (5-6x3-4) Moderate load, 75-85%RM
    Day 3 Strength (3-5x3-5) Heavy load 85-90% RM

    Just a thought and I realize the above isn't a complete program. Just trying to give you another outline that isn't necessarily PHUL but still allows you high frequency of S/B/D so you can develop strength in those movements.
  • christch
    christch Posts: 238 Member
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    Thank you so much for the information, that certainly gives me a few ideas.