I'm slow. Should I train for a half-marathon to time or distance?
RunRachelleRun
Posts: 1,854 Member
I did 12 miles today in 3 hours. I expect my half-marathon time on October 23rd to be around the same 3-hour mark.
The long runs remaining on my plan are 10, 12, 12, 10, 14, and 10 miles, but . . . a running coach I was speaking with suggested we only need to train up to the time we expect to finish in. Obviously, my brain is liking this idea to save time/misery because adding two more miles will be an extra half hour at my slow training pace.
What do you think? What's more important: time or distance? Do I just stick with my plan and slog out that 14-mile run two weeks before the race? Or can I confidently cut that one run to 12 or 13 miles since I've already gone the length of time I hope to finish in?
The long runs remaining on my plan are 10, 12, 12, 10, 14, and 10 miles, but . . . a running coach I was speaking with suggested we only need to train up to the time we expect to finish in. Obviously, my brain is liking this idea to save time/misery because adding two more miles will be an extra half hour at my slow training pace.
What do you think? What's more important: time or distance? Do I just stick with my plan and slog out that 14-mile run two weeks before the race? Or can I confidently cut that one run to 12 or 13 miles since I've already gone the length of time I hope to finish in?
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IMHO, no need for the 14 miler, especially that close to the race. I went over 13 mile training distances only on my 4th half, when I had the courage the pursue an intermediate/advanced plan-- and the long run (a 16 miler) was at least 3-4 weeks before the race itself.1
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With less than firm confidence, I'd say distance.
The really successful slow runners I know go for the distance, and don't worry about the fact that it takes them longer than most runners to get there. I've also observed that it is psychologically important to many first time half runners to run the half marathon distance in training before race day. Typically, running easy in training will take more time than running at race pace, regardless of what your natural pace is.
That having been said, there are people who argue that running 10 miles in training is enough to prepare a runner physiologically for a half marathon. I can support this with personal experience of working up to a 10 mile long run after coming back from injury, then running a half the next week; but it wasn't my first half and I already knew I had run that distance in the past.
The wild card is, running at race pace is different and more tiring that running at easy pace for a long training run. My first two half marathons were mentally challenging after mile 9, even though the 13 mile training runs had gone well before the first half.
So . . . I'd go for the distance, but I can see where someone else might be fine going for the time.2 -
Ha, should I have specified that all answers must be in consensus? Just kidding, I truly appreciate the replies.
I have a few weeks to decide. I will be grateful next week is only 10. I felt completely wiped out today and it's hard to imagine doing this a few more times plus adding 2 more miles on. I suppose the point of doing it so many times is that my body will get used to it?1 -
RunRachelleRun wrote: »I suppose the point of doing it so many times is that my body will get used to it?
Absolutely, it will gradually become easy/easier.
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Who wrote the plan though? If you happened to be following a plan that only went up to 12 miles (which my first half-marathon plan did!) you wouldn't even be asking the question! I'd just stick with the 12 mile long runs if you'd rather. Getting your body used to running for the amount of time you'll be out is fine at this stage - I only started going over-distance when I was more concerned with racing, partly because I'd now want to do a couple of miles to warm up before racing a half.1
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I would cap it at 3 hours/12 miles/whichever comes first. That seems more than satisfactory for training, especially if that's your expected finish time. No need to go above and beyond 13.1 in your first training cycle. Good luck!2
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@litsy3 It's a Matt Fitzgerald 80/20 plan. All the other runs are by time, just the long runs are by distance. I didn't really think about the warm-up before. That's a good point. Right now, my warm-up is included in the long-run distance.
Thanks! Your opinions/advice has been so helpful. I think I will drop that 14-miler and just go as far I can in the three hours instead plus a bit of a warm-up . . . unless they start feeling easier and it suddenly seems more doable.0 -
Generally speaking, I go for the distance. The 14-miler is really there for two reasons...first, so that you can know that you can make the 13.1 distance. Second, so that your body really isn't surprised by the extra distance under something other than training conditions.
I don't know what your experience has been during training but when I was training for my fist marathon, I found that each step-up in the long runs produced a noticeable tiring effect once I reached my previous long distance. Now that I've got a few under my belt, so to speak, running at least one run of nearly the full distance doesn't seem as critical. Other training patterns and total volume of quality mileage seem to play a bigger roll. In my last raining cycle my longest runs were only 18 miles, yet I "cruised through" the marathon enjoying the run wheile just missing a PR (which wasn't trying to set).
YMMV!1 -
@STrooper you are exactly right! I noticed that during each long run, but then forgot the observation during the struggle to finish.
I ran up to 6 miles without too much trouble, but then when I was doing 7, I got tired at 6. When I was doing 8, I was done for at the 7-mile mark . . . . When I was doing the 12, I felt ready to quit at 10.
Okay, now I'm not sure again. It would be nice during the race to have the knowledge in the back of my head that I've done 14.
Humph
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RunRachelleRun wrote: »@STrooper you are exactly right! I noticed that during each long run, but then forgot the observation during the struggle to finish.
I ran up to 6 miles without too much trouble, but then when I was doing 7, I got tired at 6. When I was doing 8, I was done for at the 7-mile mark . . . . When I was doing the 12, I felt ready to quit at 10.
Okay, now I'm not sure again. It would be nice during the race to have the knowledge in the back of my head that I've done 14.
Humph
Another anecdote for you: I trained to something like 13.3 miles before my first half. After mile 9, the race was very challenging. For my second half, I only worked up to a 10 mile long run after recovering from an injury. I finished the half, but again it was mentally challenging after mile 9.
Before my third half, I played with running the marathon distance long runs. I figured I'd get my body used to the distance, and if I couldn't do them it was low risk because I had no marathon at the end of the training cycle. What actually happened was, I worked up to 16 miles and did that a few times. The day I was going to do 20, I was done for at 18. That was my longest run of the training cycle. Then I cruised through my 3rd half with no issues about distance. The issues that day were with temperature, wind chill, and frozen water bottles; but running the last 4 miles wasn't a problem for distance.
Take this for what it's worth. Being a slower runner, which means more time on your feet for the same distances, may give you some issues that never arose for me; if so, I have no idea how you deal with those issues.
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@ MobyCarp Thanks for sharing that. I wouldn't have thought of going much farther.
I do have a few issues I have noticed from the longest runs: hives on the tops of my feet. I think it is from sweat or maybe even a slight allergy to a chemical or glue used in my shoes, but it is nothing I can't handle. They go away in a few days. Going the distance is likely mostly a mental hurdle, as you've pointed out. It would serve me well to try to overcome that. Not that my body won't complain, but a rest day after seems to do wonders.
And do you think doing the 14 miles two weeks before the race is a good time? Or might it be better to switch it with the 12 that is two weeks earlier (four weeks before the race)?
Thanks for the help! It's nice to hear what has worked for others.0 -
What I think works for me is to think about overall weekly mileage as well as just long run distance. So for example if I am running more miles during the week, 14 miles feels like a very easy distance to run. But if I'm not doing that much running, it feels like a LONG way. What makes it hard for you is that, because it's your first half, you don't have as many lifetime miles behind you to make it feel easy. But that doesn't mean you'd necessarily struggle in the race if you happened not to have gone the full distance before - I'm just saying this so that whatever you decide, you don't go into it expecting to have a rough time. It's the total amount of training (which you clearly have been doing!) perhaps even more than the long runs that'll get you through.2
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One more thing.
From the training you asked about, it looks like you are using Fitzgerald's Level 2 HM plan. I tried to search that out but could only find that you are using the 80/20 plan.
So having used Fitzgerald's 80/20 plan for marathons, here is what I can say about his plan for 14 miles two weeks out from the HM: the key to that run is the fast finish (and this is true of all the fast finish runs), it trains your body to sustain a run when the muscles begin to get tired while racing. It isn't the 12 miles in Zone 2 that are so important, it is the 1.5 miles in Zone 3. If you've done most of the training according to his plan, it gives you both a mental and physical memory of what you can sustain in the end.
Though I wasn't quite as successful as I wanted to be the first time I ran a marathon after using his training plan, I was the second time (a week later). That "fast finish" practice from all those fast finish runs at the end of the plan "told me" that if I had gotten to that point without excessive energy expenditure (because I went out too fast) then the acceleration at the end of the race, when others were struggling, was a really nice touch. In the last two marathons, I can't tell you how valuable that "knowing" what you can do in the last 6 and the last 3 miles really is.
In my PR marathon and even in my last marathon where I was cruising along just for the fun of it, knowing that I could sustain that pace when the legs started to complain was a real boost. When I really kicked it into gear with three miles to go to set my PR and 6 miles to go in my last marathon, I remember thinking to myself "I know what this is. This is what I practiced. I can sustain this for X miles to the end."
The real key is this: don't overdo the fast finish in training. He recommends Zone 3. Keep it there. Dropping back to the long run with fast finish 2 will be almost as valuable (at 12 miles total) but if you feel pretty tired and beat by the training, I would drop back to the 12-miler. You won't lose anything by doing that and it may promote a degree of recovery with two weeks to go. It is a fine balance between that last little tweak the 14-miles gives or dropping back to a slightly less stressful distance.
Just food for thought.1 -
To build on what @litsy3 said, if you are doing your other weekly runs by time and you are a slower runner, there might be a pretty big gap in distance between your medium distance run and your long run. Mentally, it helps to decrease that gap because your long runs don't feel sooo much longer than all of your others. You can try and go a little longer on your medium run and a little shorter on your long run. Your overall mileage will even out.
Did you say this is your first half? Are you doing the level 1 plan? I am a little surprised that there is a 14 mile run in there. Usually beginner plans only go up to 11 or 12. I think you will be fine with only doing 12 miles, but if you decide to do the 14, then yes, I would put it as far out from the race as possible.1 -
No, this is my second half. But I did the first one as a run/walk in 2013. A few months after, I caught a virus in my heart where I was very sick, couldn't exercise for six months, gained 30 lbs., and lost all my fitness. I've pretty much had to start over, and I have an arrhythmia that causes some anxiety even though my doc has given me the all-clear.
I've been trying to run for almost two years now as a base leading up to this (the half is almost exactly 2 years from when I started), but it's been slow going. I've lost 49 pounds and that's helped. I really want to run all (or at least most) of this one, even though I could run/walk at a faster pace.
@STrooper I am doing the Level 2 plan. I thought it fit better with where I was at when I started, but each long run increase has been tough. I loved the Fast Finish weekday runs in the beginning of the plan. I think the long run this coming week is the first Fast Finish long run. I'm not enjoying the Speed Play long runs; perhaps this is where the plan is too advanced for me. Thanks for the suggestion about a way I could modify it.
@litsy3 and @lporter229 my weekly mileage is low compared to my long run because I can't cover that much distance in the prescribed 45-ish min weekday runs. I'm trying to do 5-6 a week including the long run to increase that mileage, but some weeks I end up with only 4. That's a good idea to increase one of the weekday runs. I will do that this week. Great advice!
And @litsy3 you hit on something. I am expecting to have a rough time. My first half was something of a disaster from start to finish. After training in perfect summer weather, there was a huge storm on race day with heavy wind gusts and pelting rain. Halfway through the race I started getting blisters on the pads of my feet that spread to the entire pad and didn't pop/bleed until the very end (what a relief that was). I finished about 30 minutes slower than I had done in training and couldn't walk properly for a week. I didn't follow a plan or use fuel for that one, but I was fitter than I am now.
I think my biggest challenge (other than begging the clouds to hold the rain) will be not getting caught up with the crowd and running a couple of minutes per mile too fast at the start. I will really need to start slow and pace myself. I am also not confident that training at this slower pace will translate into an ability to run at a slightly faster pace in the race for the whole distance. I know I will finish, because I will walk if I have to, but I want to run if at all possible.
I am really glad I asked. Thanks for being understanding and giving suggestions where I can tweak the plan to better fit me.0 -
This is a great thread! I'm also a slow runner, currently training for my second half, and I run primarily for distance. Otherwise I won't build up the endurance needed to cover the race route since I'll only be completing, say, 10 or 11 miles in the time it might take others to run the half. I do think it's good to keep in mind that as a slower runner, as someone mentioned, you're already spending more time running the same distance. For me, that means that race nutrition becomes even more important; I'm taking three hours to finish the half and I need fuel to run for that length of time.0
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@apullum That is so true. I am just learning how important fuel is. I used water only for my first one (have an allergy to an ingredient in most sports drinks) and now I believe that hurt me more than I even realized. And it's been a nice distraction experimenting with different foods on my long runs lately. I hate having to carry a big bottle, but I'm not ready to commit to a CamelBak even though that would probably make things easier.0
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@RunRachelleRun That sounds annoying
. I like Nuun--maybe it doesn't include things you're allergic to? Nomeatathlete.com also has recipes for homemade sports drinks and gels. A good sports drink will help ensure that you're getting enough electrolytes with all the water you're drinking. As far as nutrition, I prefer raisins or Clif blocks over gels, which I think taste nasty. Both are easy to eat and give you the simple carbs you need without tasting like fake honey. 0 -
My stomach didn't like the Nuun - I think it must be the calcium carbonate as I have a shellfish allergy, so it's possible it's a slight reaction. I bought the Clif bloks but never used them. Saw after that they had citrus something or other in the ingredients and I have an orange allergy, so wasn't sure if they were safe for me (since they didn't specify the citrus source). My husband used them and they are now his favourite and have been the most recommended.
Thanks for the link; I'll definitely check that out. I've given up on buying anything now and just make my own. My last run was the best for fuel. I used dates, dried pineapple, and crackers along with a homemade sports drink with honey, sodium, potassium, and lime juice. I seem to feel better if I don't have too much of any one thing, but rather a mix of a few. It is hard to know just how much to use. I'm erring on the side of caution as I've heard overfuelling can be worse than underfuelling.0 -
Just giving this a little thought:
Relatively speaking, if your pre-race nutrition is up to snuff, you probably don't really need the extra fuel during the half-marathon. Yes, I know three hours is a long time to be running without supplemental energy, but it is really unlikely that you'll run out of glycogen in the time and distance allotted. You might feel a little better with the sudden shot of energy somewhere near the end of the race. But if you've trained without supplemental energy during your long runs and even gone out fasted (as I often do up to around 16-miles in my training runs), then your body is already accustomed to that. Doing an adequate carb-load prior to the race (I do mine over a three day period before the race whether half or full) means that you cross the starting line with nearly a "full-tank." My carb percentage during those three days is about 70% of my calories.
In my last half marathon (and the first one I've run in under two hours...in the heat and humidity of June), I passed a guy before the three mile mark that had a belt full of gels (and I don't mean three or four). Either he was an on-course gel supplier or he had one gel for every mile of the race. In my nine half-marathons and eight marathons, I had never seen anyone so "loaded up."
Me, I take single gel (salted caramel, Clif is the best, Gu a good second) to the starting area and down it with 10-15 minutes to go with a small bottle of water. I might alternate water and Gatorade at the water stations during the race but that is more for the electrolytes and less for the sugars. I use a completely different strategy fueling for the full-marathon and since I've been using that strategy, I get to the finish without running on empty.
Granted, at the end of the marathon distance, "I can eat the *kitten* off of a dead rhinoceros." But I am rarely out of energy.1 -
Thanks, @STrooper ! I need to put more focus on my pre-race nutrition. I have a hard time waking up early enough and usually have half a bagel or a banana 15 minutes (at most) before. I was using the guideline recommended by my plan (or it might have been somewhere else I read it) of 100-250 calories per hour, but aiming for the lower end. 120 calories are the honey I put in my 30 oz. water bottle, and then I just had a little snack (a cracker, small date, or a chunk of dried pineapple every couple miles). It seems to have helped. I used dates only (1 serving - 140 calories worth) in my first few fuelling tries, and they were okay, but I was getting sick after the run.
I have a sensitive stomach, so haven't tried the gels, though salted caramel sounds very appealing. I will check if I safely have that (I have stupid allergies). I was listening to a podcast where an elite runner was talking about how he followed the recommendations of his sponsor (a gel company) and he ended up not being able to finish his big race from overfuelling. That guy you saw was probably not alone in doing that.0 -
Matt Fitzgerald does give some good recommendations for fuel intake. However, he also qualifies it with the fact that there is a limit to how fast you can process calories ( and what the source of calories are). The gel recommendation on one every 45 minutes clocks in at 133 calories per hour...right in the mid-range.0
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Another thought is, it can be hard to distinguish between needing calories and needing electrolytes. If you have to give up part of what you've been using, I'd say keep your homemade sports drink because it has the electrolytes and you know it works for your sensitive stomach. If you're worried about too many calories, keep salty snacks rather than sweet snacks. Runners need a lot more sodium than sedentary people do.1
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Thanks, guys. I think you're right about the salt too. I can get low blood pressure at times and extra salt helps with that. I bought some electrolyte capsules to carry, but they were really stinky lol, and now I will only use them in a pinch. I'm still trying to lose pounds and certainly don't want to go crazy, but I don't mind eating some on the runs if it will help performance (I need all the help I can get!). And I found I wasn't as hungry the rest of the day when I had fuelled; maybe it balances out.0
