Advice for a double-marathon
Amclean93
Posts: 40 Member
Hey there, I'm Adam McLean turned 23 yesterday and have signed up to do my first ultramarathon in April 2017. I'm from Scotland and this race is a double-marathon running from Glasgow-Edinburgh(55miles). I've only ever ran 1 marathon and that was in 2015. After the race however, I felt fine and thought it was going to be harder than what it was. Maybe, I held back a bit too much at the start. Finished the race at 4 hours, which I'm not overly proud of, but seeing as it was my first race and I had only been training for it for 3 months I think I done not bad.
After the race I felt fine, like I could've kept going, maybe it was the endorphins who knows. But I decided I wanted more of a challenge which is why I've decided to go for a double-marathon and I've started training for it now. I am looking for any tips or advice from people who have ran marathons or double-marathons. I am hoping to try and compete in a marathon before April and aim to get sub 3:30:00 to ensure I'm on track. If not I'll just do a 26mile run in training and try for a similar time.
One question I do have is for people who have ran ultramarathons with hydration bladders, I seen it was recommended on a "9 things you need to do before your first ultramarthon" I've never used one, and was curious as to how much you really needed it if there are 5 checkpoints throughout this race. My only arguement for not wearing one would be that 1.5-3litres of water on your back might weigh you down or give you some issues. When running my marathon I read online that you don't want to over-hydrate and be needing to pee throughout the race or go in to port-a-loo's. Therefore I ran past several water stations, I would only really stop for energy gels. I may be wrong though, which is why I'm hoping to hear back from someone with this sort of experience.
Cheers for taking time to read this, look forward to reading any responses,
Adam
After the race I felt fine, like I could've kept going, maybe it was the endorphins who knows. But I decided I wanted more of a challenge which is why I've decided to go for a double-marathon and I've started training for it now. I am looking for any tips or advice from people who have ran marathons or double-marathons. I am hoping to try and compete in a marathon before April and aim to get sub 3:30:00 to ensure I'm on track. If not I'll just do a 26mile run in training and try for a similar time.
One question I do have is for people who have ran ultramarathons with hydration bladders, I seen it was recommended on a "9 things you need to do before your first ultramarthon" I've never used one, and was curious as to how much you really needed it if there are 5 checkpoints throughout this race. My only arguement for not wearing one would be that 1.5-3litres of water on your back might weigh you down or give you some issues. When running my marathon I read online that you don't want to over-hydrate and be needing to pee throughout the race or go in to port-a-loo's. Therefore I ran past several water stations, I would only really stop for energy gels. I may be wrong though, which is why I'm hoping to hear back from someone with this sort of experience.
Cheers for taking time to read this, look forward to reading any responses,
Adam
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I am not an Ultra person. I am just 4.5 weeks away from running my 3rd marathon and hoping to BQ on it.
Question: Have you considered maybe trying a 50K first? Going from 26.2 to 52.4 miles seems a bit extreme. Not to say it can't be done, but just wondering if tackling smaller ultra's first.
Do you have a specific book or training plan for ultra racing? There are a few out there. Training for an full marathon usually involves 1 long run a week which is supported by many smaller and medium sized runs throughout the week. Most plans top the long run at 20-22 miles (some go as extreme as 24 miles). Ultra training is a little different in that they don't expect you to actually run a single 26 or more mile long run. Instead, you may run 2 big long runs back to back days. So Saturday you run a 20 miler and maybe Sunday an 18 miler.
Pace also becomes an important point. For a good marathoner, your marathon race pace may actually be about 30 seconds/mile slower than say your half marathon race pace. That would tell me that your ultra pace will be even slower. You are going way slower than your lactate threshold so that you are conserving as much glycogen as possible. Building your body to be as much of an efficient fat burner becomes even more critical as you get into distances beyond 26.2. If you haven't been training for marathons for very long, your body may need more development in this area. Related to that is making sure your physical structure (bones ligaments, tendons, even your muscles) are able to take the constant pounding that comes along with those distances. Not only on race day, but the day after day and week after week of training. How many miles are you running per week in your training on average and in peak?
Refueling for an ultra is a little different than marathons. In marathons, we usually rely on small quick sources like gels and sports drinks and simple food items. In ultra's, many of the folks I know that do that actually have small meals during their aid stops. This requires a different attitude on race day as well as in your training.
Again, I never ran or even trained for an ultra. This is just some of the stuff I heard other ultra folks talk about in their training that actually did.0 -
I haven't really thought about a 50k, I like to through myself in at the deep end. Before running my first marathon, I had never competed in any race before then, not even a 10k, I just like a challenge. Plus, I like to think I have an iron-will. Great tips for the ultramarathon, I don't have any books or training plan, but I do plan on doing my research and creating my own training plan like I did with the marathon. Yeah 20 miles was my longest run in training too, good idea doing back-to-back long runs I like that concept will definitely integrate that in my plan. Just now my training is very varied, I have been doing a 10 mile or so run on a sunday, mid-week I will run to the gym (3.5miles) and run home again. I play football on a wednesday which is like HIIT training, and I play rugby on a Saturday. In a couple of months I will gradually be cutting out the sports and focussing purely on running, mostly just to avoid injury, but also to accurately measure how much I'm actually running. Yeah the idea of re-fuelling kind of excites me, shows your in a proper long distance race when you actually have to eat during it cause you are going for so long, I've been thinking of nuts, dried fruit (i like dried banana) and maybe some sort of bar. But I will mess around with these in training.2
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Is the double marathon flat or hilly? That can make a big difference to how long you will be out there. I actually have run this distance, many times.
My CV: I looked myself up on Ultrasignup.com and see 13 races of 50 miles or greater (including a Western States 100 finish), and 20 50 km races. Most of these (but not all) were mountainous. There are a few races missing from this database, too.
Truthfully, I've never mastered the training or racing strategy for these things, but I have learned a lot. They require a lot of training. Long runs, and occasional back to back efforts can be helpful. If your race is hilly, be sure to include a good amount of hills in your training. You don't need to run huge distances on your long training runs, but you do need to figure out how to get to 25 miles and still be ready to go.
The key here is pacing and fuel. You're going to be out there around 10+ hours (guessing from your training paces). Figuring out how to get calories in should be a priority for you. Some people can only do gels. Some can only do solid food. You'll need to figure out what works for you during training runs or a build up 50k race. (Regarding whether you need a 50km on the way to your double marathon--this is really the only reason. Try some gear. Try some food. The difference between 50k and 50 miles is vast. You can easily run a 50k on marathon training.)
One thing I would strongly urge you to do is find a group to train with. You can learn a lot, and form some solid friendships. Those long runs can be very lonely by yourself!
Have fun!
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FYI, I'm a solid food guy. Fruit, peanut butter sandwiches, etc. Too many gels and I turn into the Mayor of Vomit City.0
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It says it's a flat marathon, it's called the Glasgow to Edinburgh double-marathon if you fancy researching it. Impressive C.V is that UltraSignup worth registering on yeah ? In my runs practically all of them include a couple of steep uphills, none of my runs are ever on only flat ground. I have only just started back training after approximately a year out. My most recent long run (yesterday) was 11.5 miles, at a very slow pace of 12:25 min/mi. My marathon average pace in 2015 was 10:00 min/mi. So I reckon in a month or two I will be back up at that pace. In training I could do a 20 mile run no problem, and after the marathon I felt very strong and I was sprinting the last 3 miles when I realised I was on track for 4 hours I wanted to try and get sub 4. I reckon I held back too much in the beginning of the race, though I was enjoying myself the entire way. If I keep at this training til 1st April when the double-marathon is, I reckon I'll be fully prepared physically.
Just now I'm on a training programme on runkeeper (which is linked to MFP) as they never had an ultramarathon plan, I thought it would be a good idea to sign up for a sup 3:30:00 marathon time. Then running a sub 3:30:00 marathon in March 2-4 weeks before the double-marathon. I think this would be a good training run, and if I can run it successfully in sub 3:30:00 I know I'll be on good stead for the double. And during this marathon, I can replicate which foods I will be using for the ultra. I envision my body will enjoy getting some dried banana, salted nuts, and gels during the race. The good thing is that for years now whenever I run, I've always ran with a backpack on, I simply can't run without something on my back, not sure why haha. So running with a backpack on for the double wont be anything out of the ordinary for me.
I don't mind running myself with headphones in, but if I happen to find some people to train with or run the race with it'll be decent. But I don't see myself actively trying to seek a training group or running partners. I've always just ran myself, and trained myself. As lonely as that sounds haha0 -
That looks like great fun! Perhaps I'll come out of ultra retirement for a visit to Scotland. Ultrasignup.com is pretty US focused, so it might not be super valuable for a UK runner.
If you run a 3:30 marathon, you're likely to be wiped out for a week or two of training. Better to train for a 3:30 marathon and run a 4:00 one. (You might need to decide which is more important, running a PB marathon or running the ultra.)
Good you like running with a backpack. I do not. I'd rather wear a slim waist pack and carry a bottle or two, although I've worn a backpack many times, especially when extra gear is warranted. (Needing to carry huge amounts of water during hot conditions, or extra clothes with the weather is changeable.)
Speaking of gear...after food and water, shoes and clothes become critical. You'll want to use a surprisingly vast quantity of Body Glide, Blister Shield, etc. in the damp conditions you'll likely be running in. It is astonishingly easy to chafe yourself raw in some random place during an event that long.
Practice paying attention to minor discomfort (hotspots, etc.) during your training. If you wait until something is really troubling, it may be too late in a race. Blisters are common causes of DNFs.0
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