I'm curious where the members of this group stand on this? Do you feel that it is fair to treat white on black crimes as race crimes but not those of black on white crimes?

I think the law should be applied equally. I don't think you're going to find too many people that disagree with that.

I'm not understanding the relationship between that news story, the Wikipedia quote and your question. What point are you trying to make?

There are not a lot of HATE crimes prosecuted. It is difficult to prove unless there is something blatantly racist. So I am OK with however the stats play out, unless it can be shown that despite race being able to be proven as a motivator for the crime that it was ignored. A lot of us hold racial prejudice regardless of our race, what we feel may not meet the threshold for racism itself or being racist by definition.

Why would anyone be ok with inequities in the application of the law regardless of race?

However, racial lines can also get blurred along low socieconomic lines. Sometimes inequities often occur along the lnes of money and priviledge and a lot of minorities fall in the lower end of that.

I am not ok with taking race out of the equation or the discussion. I think these things need to be explored. Just becasue it is not spoken about does not meant the thoughts and feelings aren't there. We have to get these things out, and not be afraid to do so.

The problem with the Trayvon Martin case is with Police department. When people can't figure out a logical reason why certain decisions are made they start asking questions, and depending on the history of that community, race may be an issue.

From wikipedia: "Analysis of the 1999 FBI statistics by John Perazzo in 2001 found that white violence against black people was 28 times more likely (1 in 45 incidents) to be labelled as a hate crime than black violence against white people (1 in 1254 incidents).[19]"

Per Occam's Razor: White violence against blacks is 28 times more likely to be labelled a hate crime because white violence against blacks is 28 times more likely to be motivated by racial hatred.

Problem solved.

The problem with the Trayvon Martin case is with Police department. When people can't figure out a logical reason why certain decisions are made they start asking questions, and depending on the history of that community, race may be an issue.

This is a very good factor. Location plays a big role. For example, I live between Chicago and Indy off a major interstate. The race on race crime here is predominant. There is also a ton of racial tension because of that.

I think in a larger, more diverse place, it wouldn't be noticed as much as it is here.

Sorry, I am with Rock on this. I don't see how the article, the paste from Wikepedia, and the stats in Chicago ties in with the prosecution of HATE crimes.

Higher crime rates tend to be linked with unemployment and poor wages. Most times for those committing crimes, it is a matter of opportunity. So in the case on so called "Black on Black" crime, they all live in the same area. In a more mixed area you see more variety in the criminals and the victims. I don't see why you would have a problem with hate crimes being prosecuted as such. And I don't see how stats showing that a particular race don't just commit crimes against another race factors in.

It is not that characters involved in the crime that makes it a hate crime, but the motivation and expectation of it. Maybe if we are all on the same page on what we consider a hate crime....

Here is an excerpt fromt he FBI website. http://www.fbi.gov/about-us/investigate/civilrights/hate_crimes

---

Hate crimes add an element of bias to traditional crimes—and the mixture is toxic to our communities.

Crimes of hatred and prejudice—from lynchings to cross burnings to vandalism of synagogues—are a sad fact of American history, but the term “hate crime” did not enter the nation’s vocabulary until the 1980s, when emerging hate groups like the Skinheads launched a wave of bias-related crime. The FBI began investigating what we now call hate crimes as far back as World War I, when the Ku Klux Klan first attracted our attention. Today, we remain dedicated to working with state and local partners to prevent these crimes and to bring to justice those who commit them.

I don't understand why the race was left out of the article...regardless of the intent of the crime, knowing the race of the suspects makes it much easier to look for the guys.

In my area, those details are not left out that I'm aware of.

I'm curious where the members of this group stand on this? Do you feel that it is fair to treat white on black crimes as race crimes but not those of black on white crimes?

I think the law should be applied equally. I don't think you're going to find too many people that disagree with that.

I'm not understanding the relationship between that news story, the Wikipedia quote and your question. What point are you trying to make?

I wasn't making a point, I was wanting the opinion of other members of this group. The article was a black on whtie crime that was "understated" if you will, and the quote was a staticstic on how often black on white crimes are committed.

My opinion is that we cannot pick an choose what crimes are "racially motivated" just because it is one race on another.

You can't conflate "race on race" crime with "racial motivation." Me robbing you because I want your money isn't the same as a group of black men beating you up because they were looking for a white person to beat up.

So in the article I posted, the two men had their race withheld and mugshots removed from the article because they were black. Do you have any doubt that if it were two white men that beat an elderly black man it would be a different story? I have no doubt they would be labeled as racists.

In the case of Trayvon, I haven't seen any evidence that suggests Zimmerman went out that night saying, " I'm going to look for a black kid to shoot." So what makes him racist? What makes him crime a racially motivated one? Because the black community/media say so?

As to your article, I think a good journalist would leave the race of the victims and perpetrators out, unless it was somehow relevant to the story (i.e. it was a being investigated as a hate crime). As to what would happen in a hypothetical situation, that depends on a lot of factors. Using Trayvon's case as an example, the national media didn't jump on the story until weeks later.

As far as Trayvon's case specifically, I've never said it was a racially motivated crime (as far as the legal system is concerned, it wasn't a "crime" at all). However, those that do say it's racially motivated would argue that race likely played a role in Mr. Zimmerman's perception of events. Just to be clear, this is not my personal opinion on the matter.

So in the article I posted, the two men had their race withheld and mugshots removed from the article because they were black. Do you have any doubt that if it were two white men that beat an elderly black man it would be a different story? I have no doubt they would be labeled as racists.

In the case of Trayvon, I haven't seen any evidence that suggests Zimmerman went out that night saying, " I'm going to look for a black kid to shoot." So what makes him racist? What makes him crime a racially motivated one? Because the black community/media say so?

That's interesting if they actually went back and edited the article and removed that information. I would be curious as to their reasoning, was it really because they were black?. But I don't see why the race would be relevant unless as the above poster said, they needed assistance in looking for them. But the race alone wouldn't help with that. I have no idea how that newspaper chooses to report their stories, but it is not my experience that race if often ommitted, especially when the perpetrators are black.

I do doubt that if the situation were reversed that they would be automatically labeled as racist unless there was something indicating a possibility. And I doubt there would be an uproar, as long as they were arrested. Again, just not my experience of the news I usually see.

And please don't be offended by this (just a small pet peave), but who the heck is the "black community"? Am I a member? I can accept a statement that some in the black community A,B,C or D, but i think it is known that we are not a monolithic "race". I don't know if Zimmerman is racist or not, they would have to find significant evidence to support that. But I know some people, black, white, and otherwise, feel that it is a possibility based on what he said and what they thought he said in the 911 call. I also have no problem with them exploring it, if he is not, then he's not, if he is, then he is.

(For the record, I think it is unlikely that Zimmerman is racist. Could he racially profile, yes, but so could we all, even with members of the same race. In the 911 call, I don't think he said coons, I think he said thugs, but that itself could be a racial slur depending on how he uses it in his daily life, but it's a stretch. I believe it is possible that racial profiling could be invovled, but that doesn't make it a hate crime. And just becasue it is possible, doesn't mean that it will be proven to be so. I also think it is possible that there is some institutional racism (or nepotism or both) at play in that police department. And it should be explored to be sure it's not so. I am OK with that also.)

Ok, maybe hate crime is the wrong phrase to be using. Race crime seems more appropriate. I definitely have NO problem whatsoever with people being prosecuted for hate crimes/race crimes. They should be regardless of the case but I DO think there is prejudice when it comes to minorities commiting these crimes. The media never shows them and when they do they edit out details, such as removing the race of the two suspects from the article I posted.

Oh I think prejudice is alive and well, but I've never seen or heard anything showing a bias towards minorities in prosecution or reporting of crimes. You would have to show me an example of an obvious hate crime against white people that was not prosecuted. Again, I don't see how something is a hate or RACE crime if race was not the motivating factor. As I said, most crime is a crime of opportunity and are not done simply because the other person is a dfferent race. That is a huge sweeping generalization saying the media 'never shows them" and edit them out. Any given day on the news I see plenty to disprove it.

Why are there more severe penalties for one murder vs. another?

Why will you do more time for killing a cop than a regular person?

Why is any one person's death more heinous than another's?

No matter why someone is motivated to commit a crime, whether it's because they're a card-carrying Klansman, or because they're a thug from the ghetto, the end result is the same, they took someone else's life. The crimes are the same, the penalty should be the same. imho.

No argument there, well except for "thug from the ghetto". I'll take hardened criminal, or serial killer, or garden variety murderer. But let's leave that there. I understand the reasoning or differing penalties, but I agree with that all life should be valued the same. Amybe make it a separate charge, or is it normally a seperate charge?

Oh I gotta get back to work. Enough debating until later.

I don't understand why the race was left out of the article...regardless of the intent of the crime, knowing the race of the suspects makes it much easier to look for the guys.

In my area, those details are not left out that I'm aware of.

I'm curious also, especially if they went back and edited to remove. But if they were just reporting the crime and was not seeking assistance in finding the perpetrators, then I guess it would not be necessary. If they already had the mug shots, then looks like they already had them (unless it was an old one)

It looks like originally they were looking for the men. As the article gives desriptions of their height and clothing but not race.

It seems to me that the entire article is about searching for the men..."Two sought..." in the title. The first line is 'police are looking for'. It ends with, call ### with any information.

Race based polls like this are biased in my opinion. Not because they aren't right and that crime is not a huge problem in the black community, but because it focuses on everyday crime and not crimes against humanity. Sure it is statistically acurate to say the black people in this nation commit more murder, more theft, and so on per capita. But just because they are more disorganized than white people shouldn't be seen as derogatory.

Who is more likely to gather an army, whip the nation into a frenzey and go to war. Who is more likely to start throwing people into detention camps. Who is more likely to own a bank and royally **** millions of citizens and all the tax payers.

Sure, a black man will jack your car and sell it. But white people will attack your whole country and take over your entire auto industry.

Of course I am being a little facetious here, but I do have faith that the black community in this nation will organize, rise up, and really raise their game. Maybe even take over the CIA and kill a bunch of brown people in Central America so we can depose their democracy and have cheaper cola products. Gotta start small.

Race based polls like this are biased in my opinion. Not because they aren't right and that crime is not a huge problem in the black community, but because it focuses on everyday crime and not crimes against humanity. Sure it is statistically acurate to say the black people in this nation commit more murder, more theft, and so on per capita. But just because they are more disorganized than white people shouldn't be seen as derogatory.

Who is more likely to gather an army, whip the nation into a frenzey and go to war. Who is more likely to start throwing people into detention camps. Who is more likely to own a bank and royally **** millions of citizens and all the tax payers.

Sure, a black man will jack your car and sell it. But white people will attack your whole country and take over your entire auto industry.

Of course I am being a little facetious here, but I do have faith that the black community in this nation will organize, rise up, and really raise their game. Maybe even take over the CIA and kill a bunch of brown people in Central America so we can depose their democracy and have cheaper cola products. Gotta start small.

Good one!