You CAN gain muscle on a deficit....
Rae6503
Posts: 6,294 Member
This is for Taso. Sorry ladies. :flowerforyou:
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Now I feel bad about soiling our lovely bored, so if your ARE interested in this subject, read this:
http://www.bodyrecomposition.com/fat-loss/adding-muscle-while-losing-fat-qa.html0 -
I'm still working on resetting my husband's thinking about this. A couple times now, when I lament about the scale, he says, "but you're building muscle." I'm a LOT nicer to him than anyone else, so I correct him sweetly. But this last time, I may have been a bit snarkier than intended. It's OK...he's used to my snark.0
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My husband thinks skittles are healthy because they are fat free...0
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Pardon- is this some sort of MFP joke/contention/meme? I'm a bit lost as to the topic, sorry!0
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Pardon- is this some sort of MFP joke/contention/meme? I'm a bit lost as to the topic, sorry!
It is. Sorry. A friend of a lot of us posted that this board was the only one with non-idiotic threads, so I posted an idiotic thread here in an attempt to be funny. Most people cannot gain muscle while on a diet (a calorie deficit) but people claim that they can ALL the time. The article I posted has more information (and in general that website is an excellent source of information).0 -
It is. Sorry. A friend of a lot of us posted that this board was the only one with non-idiotic threads, so I posted an idiotic thread here in an attempt to be funny. Most people cannot gain muscle while on a diet (a calorie deficit) but people claim that they can ALL the time. The article I posted has more information (and in general that website is an excellent source of information).
Ahh- ok I get it. Yes, this board is one of the best of MFP- I agree
I'm familiar with the website but guess never thought people really expected to gain muscle in large quantities while losing fat. More they thought they were building some muscle and can now actually see it. I'm in his 'overfat' category so currently enjoy a nice double bonus- which I am enjoying greatly!0 -
I actually posted a question related to this on the general board, but I only got one response. I think I will now try you ladies, while we are on the subject. My question was about strength training while in maintenance. I do not wish to lose any more weight, but I would like to have a lower bf%. Will strength training alone help me accomplish this, or do I need to be doing bulking and cutting cycles? I knew about only being able to gain muscle if you are eating at a surplus, except for a few limited circumstances. Also, I am aware that strength training is great while you are losing weight because it can help you retain the muscle you have as you lose, so you can end up with a lower bf%. How exactly does strength training change your physique if you are eating at maintenance calories? Does it just make the muscles you do have more defined causing you to look better? Does it turn the fat you currently have into muscle, which seems physiologically impossible? I wonder if I need to doing bulking and cutting cycles as well to get the results I want. Another alternative I have read about is cycling calories (eating a surplus on the days you lift and a deficit when you are not lifting). Are any of you on maintenance calories and what do you do?0
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I actually posted a question related to this on the general board, but I only got one response. I think I will now try you ladies, while we are on the subject. My question was about strength training while in maintenance. I do not wish to lose any more weight, but I would like to have a lower bf%. Will strength training alone help me accomplish this, or do I need to be doing bulking and cutting cycles? I knew about only being able to gain muscle if you are eating at a surplus, except for a few limited circumstances. Also, I am aware that strength training is great while you are losing weight because it can help you retain the muscle you have as you lose, so you can end up with a lower bf%. How exactly does strength training change your physique if you are eating at maintenance calories? Does it just make the muscles you do have more defined causing you to look better? Does it turn the fat you currently have into muscle, which seems physiologically impossible? I wonder if I need to doing bulking and cutting cycles as well to get the results I want. Another alternative I have read about is cycling calories (eating a surplus on the days you lift and a deficit when you are not lifting). Are any of you on maintenance calories and what do you do?
I think what you are wanting to do is referred to as a "body recomp". I think if you eat at maintenance you can burn a little bit of fat, build a little bit of muscle all at the same time. I don't think it's very efficient (takes a long time) which is why people chose to do bulk/cut cycles. What I'd recommend is trying that over the summer and see how it goes. If come fall you aren't progressing as you'd like you could try a bulk. Winter is bulking season. Sweaters are a little more forgiving than swim suits :happy: .0 -
I agree with Rae on the maintenance thing. Plus if your goal is to get stronger and not necessarily ADD muscle you can certainly do that in maintenance. You can gain a lot of strength as a beginner without bulking. I wouldn't worry about a bulk until you hit a wall on your weights, then you can decide what you want to do.
I'm never gonna bulk. I'm either plenty muscular already or I have lead bones.
<--- 165 in that pic, sucking in but still.0 -
Thanks! I think I will just go with slow and steady and skip the bulk/cut then. There is something unsettling about purposefully putting on weight after you've worked so hard to get it off!0
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Thanks! I think I will just go with slow and steady and skip the bulk/cut then. There is something unsettling about purposefully putting on weight after you've worked so hard to get it off!
It's very scary. I almost gave up on it several times.0 -
Thanks! I think I will just go with slow and steady and skip the bulk/cut then. There is something unsettling about purposefully putting on weight after you've worked so hard to get it off!
It's very scary. I almost gave up on it several times.
scary...but so delicious. every time I see a guy eating 4k calories on his bulk I want to cry. I could TOTALLY do that. Not entirely sre I could cut though. I've lost the desire to diet.0 -
I plan on bulking this Fall/Winter and it scares the heck out of me but at the same time I am excited about trying it. Going to try to figure out my maintenance magic number this summer, getting tired of eating at a deficit and think I need a break from it. Maybe we should start a bulk group, and all take the plunge together.
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Thanks! I think I will just go with slow and steady and skip the bulk/cut then. There is something unsettling about purposefully putting on weight after you've worked so hard to get it off!
It's very scary. I almost gave up on it several times.
scary...but so delicious. every time I see a guy eating 4k calories on his bulk I want to cry. I could TOTALLY do that. Not entirely sre I could cut though. I've lost the desire to diet.
This is my problem. Been trying for 2 months and can't make myself eat less.0 -
I plan on bulking this Fall/Winter and it scares the heck out of me but at the same time I am excited about trying it. Going to try to figure out my maintenance magic number this summer, getting tired of eating at a deficit and think I need a break from it. Maybe we should start a bulk group, and all take the plunge together.
I definitely support starting a bulk group. I've been thinking about doing that this fall too, but I'm not entirely sure how to go about it. For now though, I'll stick to a small deficit and try to get as strong as I can until then.0 -
I plan on bulking this Fall/Winter and it scares the heck out of me but at the same time I am excited about trying it. Going to try to figure out my maintenance magic number this summer, getting tired of eating at a deficit and think I need a break from it. Maybe we should start a bulk group, and all take the plunge together.
I definitely support starting a bulk group. I've been thinking about doing that this fall too, but I'm not entirely sure how to go about it. For now though, I'll stick to a small deficit and try to get as strong as I can until then.
You do it exactly the same as dieting, but instead of a deficit you eat a slight surplus. I think this is a fine group to talk about bulking in if you want - Its not like it isn't relevant.0 -
...................waittttttttt WHAT?! You CANT gain muscle while on a defficit?! Ive read so many frigging threads on here saying you can so thats what I thought please enlighten me loves
say Ive got 130 lbs to loose if I weight lift during my weight loss journey Im not going to gain any muscles?! What the hell is the point of weight lifting then!?0 -
...................waittttttttt WHAT?! You CANT gain muscle while on a defficit?! Ive read so many frigging threads on here saying you can so thats what I thought please enlighten me loves
say Ive got 130 lbs to loose if I weight lift during my weight loss journey Im not going to gain any muscles?! What the hell is the point of weight lifting then!?
Check out that article I posted. You probably do fall into one of the categories of people who can.0 -
...................waittttttttt WHAT?! You CANT gain muscle while on a defficit?! Ive read so many frigging threads on here saying you can so thats what I thought please enlighten me loves
say Ive got 130 lbs to loose if I weight lift during my weight loss journey Im not going to gain any muscles?! What the hell is the point of weight lifting then!?
Ah well - if you read the article Rae posted, you're actually theoretically one of the lucky few who can. you've got a lot of extra fat and you're new to strength training. you'll put on some muscle. But keep in mind as someone who is very overweight you're also already carrying a LOT of extra muscle to begin with -- meaning like, lets say you're 50% bf at 300 lbs. That means you're 150 lbs of lean and 150 lbs of fat (I dont' know how much bf you actually are so just take these numbers as an example).
Now you want to weigh 140 at your "goal" -- so in addition to losing about 120lbs of fat, you'll end up losing about 30 lbs of lean in my example to end up at about 21% BF or so (which is quite lean). Because as you gain weight, you ALSO put on muscle purely because you end up carrying more weight around and you need some extra muscle to support it.
Everyone loses muscle when they diet - the more total weight you have to lose, the more of that will be muscle. Someone who only has to lose 5-10lbs could potentially lose only a fraction of a pound of muscle. Someone who has to lose 100 lbs will end up losing several pounds of muscle even in an IDEAL scenario (Ideal meaning adequate protein intake + strength training). You don't NEED to gain muscle though, because you've already most likely got EXTRA muscle for your goal weight, see?
Don't even worry about any of this stuff. Lift weights, eat enough protein, have a caloric deficit, and you will be losing fat and minimizing your muscle loss and that is EXACTLY what you want to do. You are doing EVERYTHING wright if you do that stuff - don't sweat the small stuff right now and besides a deficit, strength training, and protein, its ALL small stuff.0 -
PS: I just looked at your diary. It looks great. You're probably going to see good results on your measurements tomorrow.0
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Rae- Thanks for the article I think I 100% qualify as overfat beginner! WOHOO! Good to know that my muscle growth will slow but fat demolition will continue!
Tameko- LOL thanks for the diary comment I am trying every bit of motivation helps!
Maybe I will not even need to get down to 140/160 to look good if I have all the muscle that you guys have? I am trying to keep it all simple at first I was over thinking everything. In no way weight training is going to impeede my getting fit goal so I am going to progress with the program to the best of my ability, eat deficit and see what happens!
At what point do you stop eating at defficit to tone? When you reach your goal weight?0 -
Stop eating at a deficit when 1) you need to do a refeed/take a diet break (doooon't worry about this yet) 2) when your body looks how you want.
But you do want to reduce your deficit as you get closer to goal - so if you currently are eating to lose 2lbs/week you won't want to continue to use that setting later on, because it will mean you'd be eating too little to fuel your body (for most people - some people are freaks and can eat big *kitten* deficits forever and get good body composition out of it but plan to act like you aren't one of them).
When you get to 180-190 I'd drop to 1lb/week, 1.5 lb/week at 220 maybe0 -
See? In spite of me trying to post an idiotic post as a joke, we turn it into something awesome and helpful and containing good information and good motivation. We really do rock.0
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See? In spite of me trying to post an idiotic post as a joke, we turn it into something awesome and helpful and containing good information and good motivation. We really do rock.
Take THAT taso!0 -
See? In spite of me trying to post an idiotic post as a joke, we turn it into something awesome and helpful and containing good information and good motivation. We really do rock.
You ladies really are awesome and helpful. Thank you!0 -
See? In spite of me trying to post an idiotic post as a joke, we turn it into something awesome and helpful and containing good information and good motivation. We really do rock.
You ladies really are awesome and helpful. Thank you!
Yes I agree!
Tamko t.y. so much for the help!!
& is Taso a person!?0 -
& is Taso a person!?
Yeah, but he's a stinky boy so he can't join our cool group.....
Okay, he probably could.0 -
bumping0
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I can tell you that when I started at 230lbs I definately put on muscle and dropped fat at the same time in a deficiet. I did however, stop that down around 193, then I coasted faar too long on my improved bmr and gained fat back (not all of it), but the muscle is still there (mostly) so I think I need to focus more at this point on gaining strength and maintaining muscle mass and cutting fat. Though I may wait to really start focusing on macros and deficiet till may.
Important for doing both simultaneously is not only watching your calories, but watching your macros too. Make certain you get enough protein esp on workout day and liquid protien (whey shake) post workout is a really good way to do this. 100g/day was my goal and I had a hard time making it. Keep carbs down (worry more about grains and some about fruits). Have your carbs (pasta, cooke, icecream, whatever) for the meal closest to your lift time. For water drink half your current weight in oz. + more for exercise and any meds that require extra water.
The closer you get to your goal the less muscle you will be able to build in a deficiet.
I forgot to mention that building strength is not building muscle fiber (though it does improve strength) it's more about increasing the muscle memory. I.e. building the neuro muscular connections that help you contract.0 -
yeah, basically the article said that you can if you are "overfat" but the more lean will have more difficulty. It is interesting, though.
So, I know some women on here who are fitness competitors and seem to be adding muscle and losing fat, and I think Mehdi suggests that it is possible.
you ladies are awesome and helpful! and no stinky boys, love that!0
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