Why do nerds, bully nerds?
Ro0kins_Wedding
Posts: 295
Here is an article from 'Den of Geek' that I thought you guys would also find interesting.
http://www.denofgeek.com/other/21427/why-do-nerds-bully-nerds
To save people from cutting and pasting the link I have post the article below, but please check out http://www.denofgeek.com as it is great website for all things geek...
Why do nerds bully nerds?
I don't usually do this on this site, but it seems to have become a growing problem, or at least one I've seen more evidence of. So I'm going to step onto my soapbox for a minute. There are lots of other things on the site to read if this isn't for you, so no hard feelings either way.
Everyone else? Let me step into my flame suit, while you grab yourself a coffee.
Basically, then, I read a Tweet last month. A simple Tweet that has been festering in my head ever since. I don't want to quote the source directly, lest I bring more scorn on the person who said it. But the key quote is this: "some of the nerds have turned into the bullies they used to despise".
Why is that?
Appreciating that the definition of nerd, or geek, has generally broadened over the years, there's always nonetheless been ridicule from a select few who don't share the passion of something. Certainly in my school playground, you were allowed to talk about Star Wars, but woe betide you if you enthused about Doctor Who or Star Trek, or anything of that ilk. If you were lucky, you were just laughed at. If you were unlucky? Worse.
The thing is, most people who are geeky about things have encountered some kind of resistance. A horrible number have been bullied for it. Just for having the temerity to like something, and care about it, and be able to go on about it in some depth. To have a passion for something that's just to the side of mainstream. Something that's entirely legal, but just not might be to the taste of most.
When did that become a bad thing? Why is that fuel for someone to make someone's life a misery?
Fortunately, geeks have always had geeks. We've been able to nerd out with people, to share our enthusiasms and passions, and to be unified by subjects that we actually cared about. I've always loved that. I'm no Star Trek addict, but I've always loved that conventions have brought people together, to share in their love of the show. I love that the culture is such that these gatherings are far more commonplace and accessible than ever before. That people can actually celebrate and enthuse in public about what they like, without fear of taking **** for it.
But in recent times, there's an edge of nastiness creeping into geekdom. It might always have been there, to be fair. Fortunately, it's still very much on the fringes, but I suspect that the Internet, and perhaps sites like this, haven't really helped.
We're lucky at Den Of Geek that the people who comment on our articles are a mix of constructive, funny, interesting or supportive people. That accounts for 99.99% of the feedback we get, whether you love what we do, or think we're blathering incompetents.
Yet there's still the odd person here, as there are on pretty much every other site, who go personal. At times, really personal. Who sneer at one person liking a show that they don't. Who go beyond a gentle pulling of a leg over someone's love of Twilight, and turn it into a nasty crusade. They try and lessen someone as a human being for daring to like something they don't.
To be clear: I'm not advocating a molly-coddled world. If you want to give someone **** for liking Doctor Who, Twilight, Star Trek or whatever, do it. Of course you should do it. But do it with a sense of fun, rather than turning it into a personal crusade against someone who likes something that doesn't do it for you. Heck, I don't like soap operas (used to, just got bored), but that doesn't mean I think everyone who does deserves abuse.
What's more, I'd hate for comments sections of websites like this to not have sparks, debate and wild disagreements. Isn't that part of the fun? If there's a flaw in an argument, or you think someone has lost their mind, then join in. But again, there's a clear, common sense line: when people are picked on, on a personal level, that's really something else. Saying "I think you haven't got a clue what you're talking about?" and giving your opinion, that's fine and dandy. Hurling nasty abuse because you disagree with an article? Please. Come on. Enough now.
The worst recent example, of course, was the first reviewer on Rotten Tomatoes who happened to not love The Avengers (again, I'm not putting a direct link in by choice, for the same reason as above). She liked it, but didn't go head over heels for it.
And what happened? The vitriol aimed at her was shameful. Just shameful. The amount of debate about her review? Minimal. The personal, nasty, bullying comments, for daring not to like a film as much as anyone else? Plentiful, sadly. A disgrace. A hateful, nasty disgrace.
This isn't, for me, what geekdom should be about. Heck, it's not what human beings should be about, but that's a fight well out of our hands. But I'd wager that the vast bulk of nerds and geeks, particularly of an older vintage before, have been on the receiving end of nastiness for their views about films, TV shows, comics and such like. That some of them should then be dishing it out, having gone through it, should make them hang their heads in shame.
I spent too many of my years being bullied, and convincing myself that I was a lesser person, just because I didn't listen to the same music as everyone else, watch the same films, and had to wear glasses. And it's taken a long, long time to get myself to a point where I can brush most of it off. Nobody ever gets perfect at that, I've learned.
It's a horrible place to be, not thinking that you fit in, and feeling that you can't honestly talk about the things you like, because you'll get sneered at for them. It's lonely, and it hurts. I don't want to go back there, and the emergence of geek culture into the mainstream has meant things really have moved on. Thank goodness for that.
But still: human beings have a horrible habit of being able to physically and verbally kick the **** out of each other, and the usually welcoming world of geekdom has some people who, it seems, take pleasure in that.
I say shame on them.
I appreciate nobody's perfect - I'm certainly not - and I appreciate that some things come across in unintended ways (I'm certain I've pissed people off in the past, but I can at least say I never went out of my way to be hurtful). There are grey areas. But those who deliberately go out of their way to attack people based on their entirely legal likes? They make me sick to my stomach. And I don't think any of us should tolerate it, geeks or not.
I'll go back to writing about Batman now, if it's all the same. Thanks for indulging me. Feel free to tear me to bits in the comments. It's a good flame suit I'm wearing.
Simon Brew - May 23, 2012
http://www.denofgeek.com
http://www.denofgeek.com/other/21427/why-do-nerds-bully-nerds
To save people from cutting and pasting the link I have post the article below, but please check out http://www.denofgeek.com as it is great website for all things geek...
Why do nerds bully nerds?
I don't usually do this on this site, but it seems to have become a growing problem, or at least one I've seen more evidence of. So I'm going to step onto my soapbox for a minute. There are lots of other things on the site to read if this isn't for you, so no hard feelings either way.
Everyone else? Let me step into my flame suit, while you grab yourself a coffee.
Basically, then, I read a Tweet last month. A simple Tweet that has been festering in my head ever since. I don't want to quote the source directly, lest I bring more scorn on the person who said it. But the key quote is this: "some of the nerds have turned into the bullies they used to despise".
Why is that?
Appreciating that the definition of nerd, or geek, has generally broadened over the years, there's always nonetheless been ridicule from a select few who don't share the passion of something. Certainly in my school playground, you were allowed to talk about Star Wars, but woe betide you if you enthused about Doctor Who or Star Trek, or anything of that ilk. If you were lucky, you were just laughed at. If you were unlucky? Worse.
The thing is, most people who are geeky about things have encountered some kind of resistance. A horrible number have been bullied for it. Just for having the temerity to like something, and care about it, and be able to go on about it in some depth. To have a passion for something that's just to the side of mainstream. Something that's entirely legal, but just not might be to the taste of most.
When did that become a bad thing? Why is that fuel for someone to make someone's life a misery?
Fortunately, geeks have always had geeks. We've been able to nerd out with people, to share our enthusiasms and passions, and to be unified by subjects that we actually cared about. I've always loved that. I'm no Star Trek addict, but I've always loved that conventions have brought people together, to share in their love of the show. I love that the culture is such that these gatherings are far more commonplace and accessible than ever before. That people can actually celebrate and enthuse in public about what they like, without fear of taking **** for it.
But in recent times, there's an edge of nastiness creeping into geekdom. It might always have been there, to be fair. Fortunately, it's still very much on the fringes, but I suspect that the Internet, and perhaps sites like this, haven't really helped.
We're lucky at Den Of Geek that the people who comment on our articles are a mix of constructive, funny, interesting or supportive people. That accounts for 99.99% of the feedback we get, whether you love what we do, or think we're blathering incompetents.
Yet there's still the odd person here, as there are on pretty much every other site, who go personal. At times, really personal. Who sneer at one person liking a show that they don't. Who go beyond a gentle pulling of a leg over someone's love of Twilight, and turn it into a nasty crusade. They try and lessen someone as a human being for daring to like something they don't.
To be clear: I'm not advocating a molly-coddled world. If you want to give someone **** for liking Doctor Who, Twilight, Star Trek or whatever, do it. Of course you should do it. But do it with a sense of fun, rather than turning it into a personal crusade against someone who likes something that doesn't do it for you. Heck, I don't like soap operas (used to, just got bored), but that doesn't mean I think everyone who does deserves abuse.
What's more, I'd hate for comments sections of websites like this to not have sparks, debate and wild disagreements. Isn't that part of the fun? If there's a flaw in an argument, or you think someone has lost their mind, then join in. But again, there's a clear, common sense line: when people are picked on, on a personal level, that's really something else. Saying "I think you haven't got a clue what you're talking about?" and giving your opinion, that's fine and dandy. Hurling nasty abuse because you disagree with an article? Please. Come on. Enough now.
The worst recent example, of course, was the first reviewer on Rotten Tomatoes who happened to not love The Avengers (again, I'm not putting a direct link in by choice, for the same reason as above). She liked it, but didn't go head over heels for it.
And what happened? The vitriol aimed at her was shameful. Just shameful. The amount of debate about her review? Minimal. The personal, nasty, bullying comments, for daring not to like a film as much as anyone else? Plentiful, sadly. A disgrace. A hateful, nasty disgrace.
This isn't, for me, what geekdom should be about. Heck, it's not what human beings should be about, but that's a fight well out of our hands. But I'd wager that the vast bulk of nerds and geeks, particularly of an older vintage before, have been on the receiving end of nastiness for their views about films, TV shows, comics and such like. That some of them should then be dishing it out, having gone through it, should make them hang their heads in shame.
I spent too many of my years being bullied, and convincing myself that I was a lesser person, just because I didn't listen to the same music as everyone else, watch the same films, and had to wear glasses. And it's taken a long, long time to get myself to a point where I can brush most of it off. Nobody ever gets perfect at that, I've learned.
It's a horrible place to be, not thinking that you fit in, and feeling that you can't honestly talk about the things you like, because you'll get sneered at for them. It's lonely, and it hurts. I don't want to go back there, and the emergence of geek culture into the mainstream has meant things really have moved on. Thank goodness for that.
But still: human beings have a horrible habit of being able to physically and verbally kick the **** out of each other, and the usually welcoming world of geekdom has some people who, it seems, take pleasure in that.
I say shame on them.
I appreciate nobody's perfect - I'm certainly not - and I appreciate that some things come across in unintended ways (I'm certain I've pissed people off in the past, but I can at least say I never went out of my way to be hurtful). There are grey areas. But those who deliberately go out of their way to attack people based on their entirely legal likes? They make me sick to my stomach. And I don't think any of us should tolerate it, geeks or not.
I'll go back to writing about Batman now, if it's all the same. Thanks for indulging me. Feel free to tear me to bits in the comments. It's a good flame suit I'm wearing.
Simon Brew - May 23, 2012
http://www.denofgeek.com
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Replies
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Sometimes they bully them for using unnecessary commas.
Just joshin' you. Great article. Thanks for posting.0 -
Great article... To be fair, it's a completely valid point, but I'm sure there are a lot of people that grew up in such a negative light, that they carry a grudge with them later in life, and first chance they have to feel superior or to talk down to someone, they do.
Right or wrong, it's very natural to fall into. The case about the rotten tomatoes backlash, this is specifically a case of a bunch of nerds in a community where suddenly they're the majority, they get a huge sense of empowerment from doing exactly what was done to them. Do they think of it in terms of "it used to happen to me"? Probably not, it's so very easy to talk down to someone, especially as part of a crowd or "mob" if you will.
Either way, it sucks... But unless someone specifically steps in, it's generally not going to change.. You don't change a mob of nerds by standing by yourself in the middle of the road... Unless you're a hot girl in a slave leia outfit... but that's neither her nor there.0 -
I hated Dollhouse and really didn't like Firefly ( although FOX is to blame for that ). I really don't understand the Whedon-love out there. LET THE BASHING BEGIN!!!!!0
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I hated Dollhouse and really didn't like Firefly ( although FOX is to blame for that ). I really don't understand the Whedon-love out there. LET THE BASHING BEGIN!!!!!
Meh, dollhouse was mediocre at best, it had a fun premise though, albeit disturbing.. and the ending went a little zonko.
Firefly was pretty awesome from what little I'd seen, but you're welcome to your opinion obviously :drinker:0 -
I hated Dollhouse and really didn't like Firefly ( although FOX is to blame for that ). I really don't understand the Whedon-love out there. LET THE BASHING BEGIN!!!!!
I really wanted to like Dollhouse but couldn't. Dr Horrible's Sing-Along Blog more than makes up for it though.0 -
Dude, that comma is killing me.0
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Dude, that comma is killing me.
Just think of it as a dramatic, pause.0 -
I didn' like Dollhouse either. It was purely because Eliza Dushku, as easy on the eye as she is, couldn't carry that character at all. She's way too weak of an actress for that.
If they'd had reversed the casting and given the role of Echo to Dichen Lachman instead, I think it might have worked.0 -
Have to add my 2 cents... Firefly ROCKED!0
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I think this is really good, it is a sad fact that people turn on one another no matter what. Whether the first few points are due to an ironic rise in it being cool to be seen as geeky and therefore the new cool kids being just as *****y as ever or just a sad fact of post modern society (that's right i said post modern check me out).
Things seem very turned on their head offline as well, my friend was more fearful of a bunch of nerdy kids than the hooded gangs not long ago because they were 'more likely' to hurl abuse for no reason. I suppose staying on point with Ro0kin's post, being a nerd or geeky has shifted from a singular or coupling in the playground n in general to a wider mob like group which loses its individuality and acts with a more basic instinct of pick on the weakest or vulnerable in the group.
I've lost my thread now but thanks for making me think, it's been a while!0 -
you already know my feelings on firefly but did you all really not like dollhouse? (Also how did this turn into a conversation about whedon instead of bullying?). I liked it better than firefly from a premise perspective but Eliza Dushku was distractingly terrible. (it went wonko at the end because he tried to shove the rest of the story into the last few episodes since he knew it was getting cancelled - same as with the serenity movie).
But anyway. I think this is a nice tie in with our conversation about 'real' geeks vs 'fake' geeks but that got a bit heated so I will merely summarize by saying that its mean to be mean to other people so if you don't think of yourself as a mean person, don't be mean.
Its not really geek-on-geek violence though, in my opinion, its just the regular mean-ness that people get into because they're online and they forget that its still being mean even if its not right to someone's face.0 -
Dude, that comma is killing me.
Is it bad that I keep going to the top of this thread and re-reading the topic line simply because it's driving me absolutely, insane? (nonsensical comma intended
)
I come across this stuff time and time again, mostly in MMOs. Guys whipping it out to one-up some other dude because they just can't "get" that we're all just a bunch of geeks having fun in a super geeky way. If you're a good MMO player, you've gotta be pretty geeky, y'know? So why be all hatin' on your fellow geeks for not being geeky enough? Where's the love, man?0 -
tl;dr0
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tl;dr
tl; dr version - People leave mean comments on websites and that isn't cool. Don't tase each other, bros.
Something like that. I admit I skimmed it.0 -
tl;dr
tl; dr version - People leave mean comments on websites and that isn't cool. Don't tase each other, bros.
Something like that. I admit I skimmed it.
yo there are meanies in every social niche.
nerds still not spesh.
its ok though.
You are loved.0 -
I hated Dollhouse and really didn't like Firefly ( although FOX is to blame for that ). I really don't understand the Whedon-love out there. LET THE BASHING BEGIN!!!!!
I'm a latecomer to the Whedon fanclub. I never really got into Buffy or Angel, but Firefly was awesome. Nathan Filion was really perfect for the role. Would love to see a reboot when he gets done with Castle.
Dollhouse was average at best, but the eye-candy more than made up for any deficiencies. 0 -
Geek girls can be particularly mean...
But on to more important things, Tahmon Penikett was not naked nearly enough in Dollhouse (though they did make a good effort), I liked it better second time round. Firefly was aces, but was it so good 'cause it was so short? I adored Buffy, it was my first real nerd love beyond comics). Angel is underrated, it had some stellar episodes.0 -
Dude, that comma is killing me.
Sorry. Shall I change it to
Why do nerds.... bully nerds?
or
Why do nerds *captain kirk pause* bully nerds?0 -
The meanest crowd I ever ran with was also the most unpopular one.
That being said, unpopular =/= nerdy or geeky.
I think crowds can have bad vibes or friendly vibes, regardless of whether they are "cool" or "nerdy". And really, those two definitions are so broad. What makes a person cool? Some of the coolest people I know are also the nerdiest, they love books and games and space and time travel and whatever.
Can't we all just like what we like and be proud of it?0 -
What makes a person cool?
It's all relative. just like likes and dislikes.
When it comes out that I'm a gamer, some people say AWESOME others look at me like I'm a freak :laugh:0 -
I hated Dollhouse and really didn't like Firefly ( although FOX is to blame for that ). I really don't understand the Whedon-love out there. LET THE BASHING BEGIN!!!!!
You're wrong and if I ever see you in person I'm going to totally kick your *kitten*. I can find you despite your 7 proxies.
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I hated Dollhouse and really didn't like Firefly ( although FOX is to blame for that ). I really don't understand the Whedon-love out there. LET THE BASHING BEGIN!!!!!
I'm a Whedon junkie. I didn't like Dollhouse at all. Blech... The only good part was Alan as Alpha. He totally rocked it.
I think the whole thing of bashing anyone is just generally bad. But Americans, over all, have become all about the slander, the scandal. No one cares about the truth. No one wants to support the underdog. It's far to much fun to plow him or her down.
I hate it. I just won't participate in it.0 -
Ego.
The age old desire to prove I am superior. If I can bully you, or embarrass you, or belittle you--I must be smarter than you.
Humans are humans. Sometimes all that changes is the context or the rationalization.
On the plus side, the nerd-turned-bully may listen to reason and recognize behavior when confronted.
Or we would hope. The Good nerd: values knowledge without ego.0
This discussion has been closed.