Palestinian village faces demolition by Israel
summertime_girl
Posts: 3,945 Member
SUSIYA, West Bank—Palestinians in this hamlet have clung to their arid acres for decades, living without proper electricity or water while Israel provides both to Jewish settlers on nearby hills. But the end now seems near for Susiya: Demolition orders distributed last week by the Israelis aim to destroy virtually the entire village.
Before it does, Israel could encounter an international complication: Several European countries, with traditional Israel ally Germany in the lead, have funded solar panels, wind turbines and wells to make life in area villages more bearable. A diplomatic incident may loom.
"They are turning us into refugees on our own land," said resident Mohammed Nawaja, principal of a 35-student elementary school that consists of four tents slated for removal.
Susiya is one of more than a dozen "unrecognized" Palestinian herding communities in the southern West Bank, a desert-like area close to the Green Line, Israel's pre-1967 war frontier with the West Bank, when it was ruled by Jordan. Its 160-odd residents live in shacks, caves and tents with cement-reinforced walls.
Israeli authorities say the structures are unlicensed. Residents and their supporters say Israel refuses to grant permits as part of a plan to clear the area for future territorial claims -- a charge Israel denies.
Activists say Israeli authorities have issued demolition orders in most of the hamlets over the years, but Susiya faces the most immediate risk of wholesale razing.
At the heart of the matter is the struggle over the 62 percent of the West Bank that remains under full Israeli control -- known as Area C. This area is home to more than 300,000 Jewish settlers, more than double the number of Palestinians living there. More than 90 percent of the West Bank's Palestinians live in the parts of territory adding up to 38 percent of the land, administered by the Palestinian Authority.
The division results from the 1990s autonomy agreements between Israel and the Palestine Liberation Organization. They were meant to be temporary and lead to a final deal on drawing the borders of a Palestinian state more than a decade ago. Negotiations repeatedly broke down, while the patchwork of jurisdictions in the West Bank remained.
Critics say Israel has blocked virtually all Palestinian development in Area C, while expanding the Jewish settlements there. Only 5 percent of Palestinian requests for building permits in Area C have been granted in recent years, said Alon Cohen-Lif****z of the Israeli group Bimkom, which calls for fair planning practices.
Planning restrictions and demolition orders are part of a wider Israeli land grab, said Michael Sfard, an attorney for Israeli activists who have installed solar panels and wind turbines with German funding in 18 small communities in the southern West Bank.
"The federal government and its EU partners are watching the situation ... very carefully," said a German Foreign Ministry spokesman Wednesday, on customary condition of anonymity. "They are calling for safeguarding the German and international projects ... and are in close contact with the Israeli authorities."
Israel's Civil Administration, the branch of the military dealing with Palestinians in Area C, said it is working on more than a dozen master plans in the southern West Bank to regularize what it considers Palestinian squatters.
Maj. Guy Inbar, an Israeli spokesman, said some of the work is being held up because Palestinians are not cooperating. He said some of the Palestinians in the southern West Bank would be asked to move as part of such plans, but he declined to give details.
Qamar Assad, an attorney for Susiya, said the villagers have not been offered an alternate site.
Israeli government spokesman Mark Regev said Israel is ready to tackle the core issue of drawing the borders of a Palestinian state, which would also resolve the problems of Susiya and the entire settlement issue.
The Palestinians, who want a state in the West Bank, Gaza and east Jerusalem -- territories Israel captured in the 1967 war -- refuse to resume talks until Israel freezes settlement construction on occupied lands.
Susiya's defenders say it's more vulnerable to displacement than some of the other villages in the area. The village is flanked by a Jewish settlement and the ruins of a centuries-old Jewish town of the same name.
Susiya residents lived in the area of the ruins until it was declared an archaeological site and they were forced to leave in the mid-1980s. Some left for other Palestinian communities, while others settled a few hundred yards away, on land Nawaja says is privately owned by him and his relatives.
Since Israel did not recognize the community, it was not hooked up to electricity or water grids, while the settlement of Susiya and several unauthorized Jewish outposts in the area receive such services, said Sfard.
In 2010, Israel's government designated the Susiya excavation area as a Jewish heritage site and promised funding to turn it into a major tourist attraction. Susiya residents say they've been barred from visiting the site, even though some were born there.
Among the finds are the remains of a synagogue with elaborate floor mosaics, and explanations offered to visitors include many links between the apparent practices of town residents and those described in Jewish scriptures.
Israeli archaeologist Yonathan Mizrahi, who was not involved in the dig, said excavations also yielded remnants of a mosque built atop the synagogue in later years, but that this is not mentioned to visitors. "There is a clear political agenda, to legitimize the settlement (of Susiya) as continuing the Jewish presence of the past," he said.
Last week, Civil Administration inspectors distributed demolition orders for several dozen structures in the village, including the school, a makeshift clinic, residential tents, animal shelters and German-funded solar panels, Assad said.
Some of the orders were initially issued in the 1990s but not implemented, while others are new.
Inbar said Israel is in touch with German officials, and one proposal is to take the solar panels to another area if Susiya residents agree to move there. The German Foreign Ministry official did not address the issue publicly.
The Israeli group that installed the panels, Comet-ME, said demolition orders or their precursors, stop-work orders, have been issued against nine of their 18 sites, including Susiya. The group is providing electricity to 1,300 Palestinians in the area.
Comet-ME said it had hoped to set up six more installations this year but will have to stop work until the legal problems are solved.
By Karin Laub
Associated Press / June 20, 2012
Before it does, Israel could encounter an international complication: Several European countries, with traditional Israel ally Germany in the lead, have funded solar panels, wind turbines and wells to make life in area villages more bearable. A diplomatic incident may loom.
"They are turning us into refugees on our own land," said resident Mohammed Nawaja, principal of a 35-student elementary school that consists of four tents slated for removal.
Susiya is one of more than a dozen "unrecognized" Palestinian herding communities in the southern West Bank, a desert-like area close to the Green Line, Israel's pre-1967 war frontier with the West Bank, when it was ruled by Jordan. Its 160-odd residents live in shacks, caves and tents with cement-reinforced walls.
Israeli authorities say the structures are unlicensed. Residents and their supporters say Israel refuses to grant permits as part of a plan to clear the area for future territorial claims -- a charge Israel denies.
Activists say Israeli authorities have issued demolition orders in most of the hamlets over the years, but Susiya faces the most immediate risk of wholesale razing.
At the heart of the matter is the struggle over the 62 percent of the West Bank that remains under full Israeli control -- known as Area C. This area is home to more than 300,000 Jewish settlers, more than double the number of Palestinians living there. More than 90 percent of the West Bank's Palestinians live in the parts of territory adding up to 38 percent of the land, administered by the Palestinian Authority.
The division results from the 1990s autonomy agreements between Israel and the Palestine Liberation Organization. They were meant to be temporary and lead to a final deal on drawing the borders of a Palestinian state more than a decade ago. Negotiations repeatedly broke down, while the patchwork of jurisdictions in the West Bank remained.
Critics say Israel has blocked virtually all Palestinian development in Area C, while expanding the Jewish settlements there. Only 5 percent of Palestinian requests for building permits in Area C have been granted in recent years, said Alon Cohen-Lif****z of the Israeli group Bimkom, which calls for fair planning practices.
Planning restrictions and demolition orders are part of a wider Israeli land grab, said Michael Sfard, an attorney for Israeli activists who have installed solar panels and wind turbines with German funding in 18 small communities in the southern West Bank.
"The federal government and its EU partners are watching the situation ... very carefully," said a German Foreign Ministry spokesman Wednesday, on customary condition of anonymity. "They are calling for safeguarding the German and international projects ... and are in close contact with the Israeli authorities."
Israel's Civil Administration, the branch of the military dealing with Palestinians in Area C, said it is working on more than a dozen master plans in the southern West Bank to regularize what it considers Palestinian squatters.
Maj. Guy Inbar, an Israeli spokesman, said some of the work is being held up because Palestinians are not cooperating. He said some of the Palestinians in the southern West Bank would be asked to move as part of such plans, but he declined to give details.
Qamar Assad, an attorney for Susiya, said the villagers have not been offered an alternate site.
Israeli government spokesman Mark Regev said Israel is ready to tackle the core issue of drawing the borders of a Palestinian state, which would also resolve the problems of Susiya and the entire settlement issue.
The Palestinians, who want a state in the West Bank, Gaza and east Jerusalem -- territories Israel captured in the 1967 war -- refuse to resume talks until Israel freezes settlement construction on occupied lands.
Susiya's defenders say it's more vulnerable to displacement than some of the other villages in the area. The village is flanked by a Jewish settlement and the ruins of a centuries-old Jewish town of the same name.
Susiya residents lived in the area of the ruins until it was declared an archaeological site and they were forced to leave in the mid-1980s. Some left for other Palestinian communities, while others settled a few hundred yards away, on land Nawaja says is privately owned by him and his relatives.
Since Israel did not recognize the community, it was not hooked up to electricity or water grids, while the settlement of Susiya and several unauthorized Jewish outposts in the area receive such services, said Sfard.
In 2010, Israel's government designated the Susiya excavation area as a Jewish heritage site and promised funding to turn it into a major tourist attraction. Susiya residents say they've been barred from visiting the site, even though some were born there.
Among the finds are the remains of a synagogue with elaborate floor mosaics, and explanations offered to visitors include many links between the apparent practices of town residents and those described in Jewish scriptures.
Israeli archaeologist Yonathan Mizrahi, who was not involved in the dig, said excavations also yielded remnants of a mosque built atop the synagogue in later years, but that this is not mentioned to visitors. "There is a clear political agenda, to legitimize the settlement (of Susiya) as continuing the Jewish presence of the past," he said.
Last week, Civil Administration inspectors distributed demolition orders for several dozen structures in the village, including the school, a makeshift clinic, residential tents, animal shelters and German-funded solar panels, Assad said.
Some of the orders were initially issued in the 1990s but not implemented, while others are new.
Inbar said Israel is in touch with German officials, and one proposal is to take the solar panels to another area if Susiya residents agree to move there. The German Foreign Ministry official did not address the issue publicly.
The Israeli group that installed the panels, Comet-ME, said demolition orders or their precursors, stop-work orders, have been issued against nine of their 18 sites, including Susiya. The group is providing electricity to 1,300 Palestinians in the area.
Comet-ME said it had hoped to set up six more installations this year but will have to stop work until the legal problems are solved.
By Karin Laub
Associated Press / June 20, 2012
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A few years ago I began doing research into the Palestinian/Israeli conflicts, the history of it, the current events, and reading up on personal stories told by people on both sides. I'm continuously horrified by atrocities on both sides. But while I never condone violence of any sort, after all the reading I've done, it seems to me that so much of the fault of the conflict lies with Israel, (and the dogged support from the US).
I don't have time tonight to get into it much, just saw the article and wanted to put it out there, but do want to delve in tomorrow.0 -
They've been fighting over that hard scrabble piece of real estate for centuries. There will never be a compromise that will placate both sides. As far as I am concerned, the US should back out of there and mind their own business.0
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They've been fighting over that hard scrabble piece of real estate for centuries. There will never be a compromise that will placate both sides. As far as I am concerned, the US should back out of there and mind their own business.
My husband feels and says the same thing - there will never be resolution to the conflict. My reply is the same when he tells me that war is inevitable: HOGWASH (only I may use slightly stronger words than that which might get me censored on this forum).
At the same time, I don't agree that the US should just turn their backs because, hell, we've made the situation worse and we owe all of those people there the respect to try and clean up a bit before we just leave! Also, every single western country but mostly Britain owes the same to them. Britain really screwed with the situation in the late 1800 and 1900 and started the whole mess.
Now today, we STILL have a people who have no country, no land to call their own. This doesn't have to be a lose-lose situation. Israel doesn't have to be destroyed although they sure as hell don't make themselves easy to live with. But, the Palestians need their own sovereignty too. Also, any bully needs punished and Israel acts like a bully to the nth degree. They are the smallest kid on the block so of course they are going to be uber-sensitive (and lets face it, Iran is a real threat to them); however, they have to start restraining themselves especially towards the Palestinians. Seems they want to do more to the Palestinians than we did to the American Indians. What makes that situation humanely different than the one the Israelites faced 150 yrs ago? I support the sovereignty of each Middle Eastern country, including Israel and the Palestinian people. I do NOT, however, support Zionism in any shape or form and that is why I'm angry at western countries because they have supported Zionism for their own self-interests (oil - Israel is far richer than the Palestines - this is an alignment based on wealth, again!). If you are really brave, answer this question:
CAN WE POSSIBLY SAY ANYTHING GOOD ABOUT THE PALESTINIANS WITHOUT ALSO IMPLYING BAD ABOUT ISRAEL? IF NOT, WHY NOT?
-Debra0 -
If it were about turf, it would have been resolved long ago.
It's about religion. Most conflict around the world are.0 -
If it were about turf, it would have been resolved long ago.
It's about religion. Most conflict around the world are.
Religion. . .in this case used to justify racism. And "used" is the operative word here because I agree with you that between the Middle Eastern countries religiion is the dividing force. BUT, western countries took their issues and played it one against the other, so that for Western involvement the issue is not religion but oil. Do you think Britain or the US would be there except for the oil? We are NOT there for the Holy Land, that's for sure, but the All-Holy Oil.
We always like to break down things into one cause. Believe me, this conflict is way more than about religion. Religion is just convenient to cover the real reasons and fits nicely into Sunday School curricula nationwide. Lift up the cover of religioin and what will you see hiding underneath?
The British reneged on their promise of land to the Palestines (http://www.historylearningsite.co.uk/mcmahon.htm) and that is something very few Westerners know about. Kinda like the Armenian genocide in Turkey. No one speaks about it so by golly I'll keep bringing it up! In an effort to appease everyone, Britain just inflamed the situation because, like with all the treaties the US gvt made with the American Indians, it was broken. Why? Israel was richer, and more compliant to be used as a voice to interpret the Middle East to the West - another strategic Western blunder.
-Debra0 -
Wow, so much ignorance here, I don't even know where to start.
When the Arabs (the term Palestinian referred *exclusively* to Jews before 1948) refused to consider a negotiated solution in 1937? When they walked away from the negotiating table in 2000 for reasons that everyone involved admits were their own internal power struggles?
What Palestinian government is there that Israel can even negotiate with when Hamas and the PLO are constantly trying to get the upper hand over each other? And even if there was any change of reconciliation and the creation of a Palestinian national unity government, how can Israel negotiate with a government that includes Hamas, whose very charter says that it is the religious duty of Muslims to wipe out every single Jew on the planet?
If Israel were to withdraw from the West Bank tomorrow, would it turn into another Gaza Strip - and area of lawlessness where armed militias can shoot rockets into Israeli territory at whim?
So, Israel militarily has the upper hand. Does that mean that it is not allowed to respond to the deliberate targeting of children on their way to school (this isn't rhetoric; a public bus in Haifa was targeted specifically because it's route served a middle school, and a rocket was shot from Gaza at a school bus)?
If Israel is so much more racist then the Palestinians, then why has the percentage of Israeli citizens who are Arabs grown steadily to reach about 20% of the population while the number of Jews living in Arab countries has declined from 1 million to only a few thousand, mostly in Tunisia?
If you can answer those questions, THEN maybe I'll listen to what you think Israel is supposed to do.
By the way, the PLO has gotten thousands of Palestinian civilians killed in *Arab* countries, especially Jordan (where the PLO was expelled from after Black September, when Jordan killed between 3,400 and 5,000 Palestinians) and Lebanon (where the PLO played a huge role in the Lebanese civil war, resulting frequently the automatic execution of anyone found to speak Palestinian Arabic, and the eventual expulsion of the PLO). Not to mention that the PLO also got all of the Palestinian expelled from Kuwait by supporting the invasion by Saddam Hussein.
Lastly, Zionism is nothing more than the desire of an indigenous people to return to its ancient homeland. Anti-Zionism is really just anti-Semitism, and if you don't believe me, then tell me why everything people say about Zionists, pro-Israel activist, and Israelis are old anti-Semitic tropes with the word "Jew" replaced ("Israelis love murdering non-Jewish children," "The Israel lobby controls US foreign policy," "We only went to war because of the Israel lobby," etc.).0 -
Lol - anti-zionism is anti-semitism....Classic.
Just because I think the actions of the Jewish government are disgraceful it doesn't mean I harbour ill regards to Jewish people, or that I'm a racist.
Any nation which refuses to sign the none-proliferation treaty is backwards - EVEN IRAN signed the treaty.0 -
Wow, so much ignorance here, I don't even know where to start.
If you can answer those questions, THEN maybe I'll listen to what you think Israel is supposed to do.
Maybe you should just lay it out for us.0 -
Wow, so much ignorance here, I don't even know where to start.
When the Arabs (the term Palestinian referred *exclusively* to Jews before 1948) refused to consider a negotiated solution in 1937? When they walked away from the negotiating table in 2000 for reasons that everyone involved admits were their own internal power struggles?
What Palestinian government is there that Israel can even negotiate with when Hamas and the PLO are constantly trying to get the upper hand over each other? And even if there was any change of reconciliation and the creation of a Palestinian national unity government, how can Israel negotiate with a government that includes Hamas, whose very charter says that it is the religious duty of Muslims to wipe out every single Jew on the planet?
If Israel were to withdraw from the West Bank tomorrow, would it turn into another Gaza Strip - and area of lawlessness where armed militias can shoot rockets into Israeli territory at whim?
So, Israel militarily has the upper hand. Does that mean that it is not allowed to respond to the deliberate targeting of children on their way to school (this isn't rhetoric; a public bus in Haifa was targeted specifically because it's route served a middle school, and a rocket was shot from Gaza at a school bus)?
If Israel is so much more racist then the Palestinians, then why has the percentage of Israeli citizens who are Arabs grown steadily to reach about 20% of the population while the number of Jews living in Arab countries has declined from 1 million to only a few thousand, mostly in Tunisia?
If you can answer those questions, THEN maybe I'll listen to what you think Israel is supposed to do.
By the way, the PLO has gotten thousands of Palestinian civilians killed in *Arab* countries, especially Jordan (where the PLO was expelled from after Black September, when Jordan killed between 3,400 and 5,000 Palestinians) and Lebanon (where the PLO played a huge role in the Lebanese civil war, resulting frequently the automatic execution of anyone found to speak Palestinian Arabic, and the eventual expulsion of the PLO). Not to mention that the PLO also got all of the Palestinian expelled from Kuwait by supporting the invasion by Saddam Hussein.
Lastly, Zionism is nothing more than the desire of an indigenous people to return to its ancient homeland. Anti-Zionism is really just anti-Semitism, and if you don't believe me, then tell me why everything people say about Zionists, pro-Israel activist, and Israelis are old anti-Semitic tropes with the word "Jew" replaced ("Israelis love murdering non-Jewish children," "The Israel lobby controls US foreign policy," "We only went to war because of the Israel lobby," etc.).
Bathsheba: You answered my question blatantly, though probably unawares. I'm sorry this is an emotional topic and the questions you posed, you clearly already have an answer. Again, I will state my thesis: I believe that there can be peace in the Middle East but it will take reason not emotion and ideology to accomplish. I will never give up the hope or the fight for peace in the world, in the Middle East, and the end to all war. If I came off sounding anti-Israel, I'm sorry. I tend to support the underdog in most fights and clearly, in my view, Israel has the upper hand. Let me try and be more clear without emotion or commentary. Just the facts.
My answer to your first question is yes AND no. You asked [How can there ever be peace] when the Arabs refused to consider a negotiated solution in 1977? The British made several attempts to negotiate a settlement between the Zionists and Arabs. At the end of WWI the Arab leaders were cautiously favorable to the plan because the Brits sold it to them as a small number (hundreds) of European Jews settling in Palestine and in whatever you - the Arabs - decide the government will be. Additionally, Arabs were told, these Jews will bring advanced technical skills to the region which will benefit the entire population. Then, as the persecution of the Jews increased in Europe, the influx of Jews changed from hundreds to thousands to tens of thousands, which is where the conflict over limited amounts of land and water resources began.
Complicating the hostilities during this time further is that the Zionist emigrant leaders began to aggressively maneuver for an autonomous Jewish state over and above the Arabs that were already living there. Britain was okay with the Zionist agenda. The Arabs, however, were promised a mixed state with 1/3 Arab control, 1/3 Jewish control, and 1/3 British colonial control. That's what the British offered in 1937 and when they did, the Zionists said no way, we want 100% control. The Arabs responded as intractably, and the British just threw up their hands. Britain tried to play one group against the other and then, in the end, as the American government did with the Native Americans, the British broke promise with the Arabs and gave support and control to the Zionists. (That is one of many examples from history as to why I personally hold the Brits more responsible for the conflict than anyone else.) By sharing power and resources, there can be peace in that region.
As for your second question, everyone walked away from the negotiating table in 2000! President Clinton blamed Arafat for the impasse when in fact Clinton and Barak took an all or nothing approach to the negotiations when Arafat was willing to talk further. As Palestinian chief negotiator Saeb Erakat acknowledged at the time, the negotiations came THE CLOSEST Israelis and Palestinians had been to a final settlement of their differences! The Israelis insisted they had offered more than ever before. In fact, five years earlier, prior to PM Rabin's death, Palestinian negotiators were ready to accept far less, including a Palestinian capital outside the borders of Jerusalem.
Israeli Prime Minister Y. Ravin, a military hero in 1967, started dismantling settlements and normalizing relations with Palestine in the 1990s but he was assassinated by a religious right-wing Zionist in 1995 because he realized and admitted publically that he and other Israeli's had been duped. He said, "We did not come to an empty land." When I read that, I immediately thought of this country and how it was settled by Europeans. Can you imagine our forefathers not being aware that there were others here (Native Americans) before them? But that's how Israeli children were brought up, in ignorance, and PM Rabin as soon as he realized what the truth was took immediate steps to make things right. It behooves us to maintain the facts of the situation and not get caught up in the street fights and name-calling, in order to honor Rabin's support of the peace initiative for which he gave his life.
In answer to your third question, no one can negotiate with Hamas because Hamas won't let anyone negotiate with them. End of story there. As for the PLO - there is in essence no PLO anymore. . .the largest faction is called Fatah and that is what is referenced today. The fact is that most Israelis and Palestinians want a two-state solution according to a recent June 2012 poll published by the Institute of Irish Studies at the University of Liverpool (see: http://www.haaretz.com/news/poll-most-palestinians-israelis-want-two-state-solution-1.274607).
So why don't the leaders work for and want a two-state solution? I believe it is because the refugee displacement of the Palestinian population (at around 4 million!) suits the leaders of Israel and all of the Arabs state leaders. The leaders benefits because then none of them have to provide sewage, plumbing, roads, and other services to Palestinians. If there is a two-state solution, Israel, being one of the most populous states in the region doesn't have enough room for nearly half a billion Palestinian refugees and the other Arab states in Jordan, Syria, etc. would have to merge those already living there as refugees for 60-plus years as citizens. Sixty years without a country, can you imagine? Also, is there any other refugee group other than the Palestinians that are not offered a right of return to their homes?
It is deplorable not only when an Israeli schoolchild is killed by a Palestinian terrorist but also when a Palestinian child is killed by an Israeli bomb dropped by an Israeli fighter. Are either any less dead or mourned? Keeping the argument in the intractable trenches of Israel versus the entire Arab world or us against them serves no one but the god of war and hate and destruction. We need to detach ourselves from this defeatist stance and move to higher ground. We need to advocate for fairness and humanity. We need to start calling Israel out when she throws her weight around and reward her when she acts maturely and cooperatively. We already do this with the other Arab countries, but we continue to give Israel special treatment and she has quite frankly turned into a spoiled child.
-Debra0 -
All excellent points - bravo.Wow, so much ignorance here, I don't even know where to start.
When the Arabs (the term Palestinian referred *exclusively* to Jews before 1948) refused to consider a negotiated solution in 1937? When they walked away from the negotiating table in 2000 for reasons that everyone involved admits were their own internal power struggles?
What Palestinian government is there that Israel can even negotiate with when Hamas and the PLO are constantly trying to get the upper hand over each other? And even if there was any change of reconciliation and the creation of a Palestinian national unity government, how can Israel negotiate with a government that includes Hamas, whose very charter says that it is the religious duty of Muslims to wipe out every single Jew on the planet?
If Israel were to withdraw from the West Bank tomorrow, would it turn into another Gaza Strip - and area of lawlessness where armed militias can shoot rockets into Israeli territory at whim?
So, Israel militarily has the upper hand. Does that mean that it is not allowed to respond to the deliberate targeting of children on their way to school (this isn't rhetoric; a public bus in Haifa was targeted specifically because it's route served a middle school, and a rocket was shot from Gaza at a school bus)?
If Israel is so much more racist then the Palestinians, then why has the percentage of Israeli citizens who are Arabs grown steadily to reach about 20% of the population while the number of Jews living in Arab countries has declined from 1 million to only a few thousand, mostly in Tunisia?
If you can answer those questions, THEN maybe I'll listen to what you think Israel is supposed to do.
By the way, the PLO has gotten thousands of Palestinian civilians killed in *Arab* countries, especially Jordan (where the PLO was expelled from after Black September, when Jordan killed between 3,400 and 5,000 Palestinians) and Lebanon (where the PLO played a huge role in the Lebanese civil war, resulting frequently the automatic execution of anyone found to speak Palestinian Arabic, and the eventual expulsion of the PLO). Not to mention that the PLO also got all of the Palestinian expelled from Kuwait by supporting the invasion by Saddam Hussein.
Lastly, Zionism is nothing more than the desire of an indigenous people to return to its ancient homeland. Anti-Zionism is really just anti-Semitism, and if you don't believe me, then tell me why everything people say about Zionists, pro-Israel activist, and Israelis are old anti-Semitic tropes with the word "Jew" replaced ("Israelis love murdering non-Jewish children," "The Israel lobby controls US foreign policy," "We only went to war because of the Israel lobby," etc.).
Bathsheba: You answered my question blatantly, though probably unawares. I'm sorry this is an emotional topic and the questions you posed, you clearly already have an answer. Again, I will state my thesis: I believe that there can be peace in the Middle East but it will take reason not emotion and ideology to accomplish. I will never give up the hope or the fight for peace in the world, in the Middle East, and the end to all war. If I came off sounding anti-Israel, I'm sorry. I tend to support the underdog in most fights and clearly, in my view, Israel has the upper hand. Let me try and be more clear without emotion or commentary. Just the facts.
My answer to your first question is yes AND no. You asked [How can there ever be peace] when the Arabs refused to consider a negotiated solution in 1977? The British made several attempts to negotiate a settlement between the Zionists and Arabs. At the end of WWI the Arab leaders were cautiously favorable to the plan because the Brits sold it to them as a small number (hundreds) of European Jews settling in Palestine and in whatever you - the Arabs - decide the government will be. Additionally, Arabs were told, these Jews will bring advanced technical skills to the region which will benefit the entire population. Then, as the persecution of the Jews increased in Europe, the influx of Jews changed from hundreds to thousands to tens of thousands, which is where the conflict over limited amounts of land and water resources began.
Complicating the hostilities during this time further is that the Zionist emigrant leaders began to aggressively maneuver for an autonomous Jewish state over and above the Arabs that were already living there. Britain was okay with the Zionist agenda. The Arabs, however, were promised a mixed state with 1/3 Arab control, 1/3 Jewish control, and 1/3 British colonial control. That's what the British offered in 1937 and when they did, the Zionists said no way, we want 100% control. The Arabs responded as intractably, and the British just threw up their hands. Britain tried to play one group against the other and then, in the end, as the American government did with the Native Americans, the British broke promise with the Arabs and gave support and control to the Zionists. (That is one of many examples from history as to why I personally hold the Brits more responsible for the conflict than anyone else.) By sharing power and resources, there can be peace in that region.
As for your second question, everyone walked away from the negotiating table in 2000! President Clinton blamed Arafat for the impasse when in fact Clinton and Barak took an all or nothing approach to the negotiations when Arafat was willing to talk further. As Palestinian chief negotiator Saeb Erakat acknowledged at the time, the negotiations came THE CLOSEST Israelis and Palestinians had been to a final settlement of their differences! The Israelis insisted they had offered more than ever before. In fact, five years earlier, prior to PM Rabin's death, Palestinian negotiators were ready to accept far less, including a Palestinian capital outside the borders of Jerusalem.
Israeli Prime Minister Y. Ravin, a military hero in 1967, started dismantling settlements and normalizing relations with Palestine in the 1990s but he was assassinated by a religious right-wing Zionist in 1995 because he realized and admitted publically that he and other Israeli's had been duped. He said, "We did not come to an empty land." When I read that, I immediately thought of this country and how it was settled by Europeans. Can you imagine our forefathers not being aware that there were others here (Native Americans) before them? But that's how Israeli children were brought up, in ignorance, and PM Rabin as soon as he realized what the truth was took immediate steps to make things right. It behooves us to maintain the facts of the situation and not get caught up in the street fights and name-calling, in order to honor Rabin's support of the peace initiative for which he gave his life.
In answer to your third question, no one can negotiate with Hamas because Hamas won't let anyone negotiate with them. End of story there. As for the PLO - there is in essence no PLO anymore. . .the largest faction is called Fatah and that is what is referenced today. The fact is that most Israelis and Palestinians want a two-state solution according to a recent June 2012 poll published by the Institute of Irish Studies at the University of Liverpool (see: http://www.haaretz.com/news/poll-most-palestinians-israelis-want-two-state-solution-1.274607).
So why don't the leaders work for and want a two-state solution? I believe it is because the refugee displacement of the Palestinian population (at around 4 million!) suits the leaders of Israel and all of the Arabs state leaders. The leaders benefits because then none of them have to provide sewage, plumbing, roads, and other services to Palestinians. If there is a two-state solution, Israel, being one of the most populous states in the region doesn't have enough room for nearly half a billion Palestinian refugees and the other Arab states in Jordan, Syria, etc. would have to merge those already living there as refugees for 60-plus years as citizens. Sixty years without a country, can you imagine? Also, is there any other refugee group other than the Palestinians that are not offered a right of return to their homes?
It is deplorable not only when an Israeli schoolchild is killed by a Palestinian terrorist but also when a Palestinian child is killed by an Israeli bomb dropped by an Israeli fighter. Are either any less dead or mourned? Keeping the argument in the intractable trenches of Israel versus the entire Arab world or us against them serves no one but the god of war and hate and destruction. We need to detach ourselves from this defeatist stance and move to higher ground. We need to advocate for fairness and humanity. We need to start calling Israel out when she throws her weight around and reward her when she acts maturely and cooperatively. We already do this with the other Arab countries, but we continue to give Israel special treatment and she has quite frankly turned into a spoiled child.
-Debra
I'm not afraid to admit that my county has played a part in this conflict, the west is hugely responsible, more-so when Arab's are being expected to pay for the crimes of European Nazism.0 -
There is no such thing as Palestine0
