Brunner26_2

I think you guys are actually in agreement. What he calls "choosing to believe," you call "turning on." And what he calls "logic," you call "coming to believe by study and reflection."

I agree with m_a_b. Rejecting God is different from rejecting the idea that any gods exist. And saying you're an atheist as an act of rebellion or defiance would be the same as converting to Islam or Paganism as an act of defiance, that is, not really based on belief.

Measure how much is left in the pan, subtract that amount from the total.

I must have missed that.

I propose we stop debating with wineplease. The arguments keep going in circles and she keeps demanding scholarly sources while providing none herself.

But circumcision is in the old testament as a command from god to Abraham. Is this something that's not supposed to be taken literally? It was not a command from god and they developed it on their own as a symbol? Genesis 17:10-14 10 This is My covenant, which ye shall keep, between Me and you and thy seed after thee:…

Who are these scholars? Please provide references.

Member for 9 months and this is your first post. I approve.

wineplease, please address the part in bold. It sounds like you're implying that the bible is a scientific account.

It's not serious research, it's a starting point for understanding, and the source of the points I wanted you to refute. What I'm asking is: why do you need scientific evidence to believe bahet's example story when you haven't provided scientific evidence of Jesus' resurrection? Eye witness testimony is not scientific…

Nor is the bible compelling as a scientific account. Additionally, you haven't provided any references either, except the bible, which doesn't count as evidence that the bible is true. You can make this about faith and what feels right to you, and I can't argue with that. But your beliefs don't have any scientific…

You're right lour, there isn't definitive proof that any deity exists or not, but you can explain away many of their myths. To me, that's enough.

You're a bit mistaken there. Being pulled back down when you jump doesn't prove gravity, it just shows that for some reason things spontaneously move toward the ground, among other things. The theory of gravity explains WHY objects move toward the ground. It involves masses, constants, and all sorts of other complicated…

I've been nothing but respectful. I know I won't change her mind, and I wasn't trying to. I'm trying to understand.

wineplease, you've clearly put a lot of thought into your faith, and I respect that (especially since you don't reject current science, that infuriates me). If it gives you comfort to believe, then that's great. You're also not pushy. I just don't think it's necessary to invoke the supernatural, ever. I disagree with the…

How do you know it wasn't meant to be taken literally?

So in your studies, you've accepted some stories as more factual than others? Isn't that just picking and choosing what you want? I'm really asking. I'm trying to understand.

I don't need to actually read them. We can dismiss Genesis based on what we know about life and the universe. We can dismiss the story of Noah and the flood, as it's not supported by geological evidence. As far as Moses goes, it's debatable that there were even any Jews in Egypt at that time, and as far as I know (correct…

I haven't read either. But as they are both thousand-year-old religious texts that deal with magic, so to me they hold the same credibility.

We actually don't know that anybody died for their beliefs. We have stories about people who died for their beliefs, that as you say, had been passed down from generation to generation before they were ever written down. Stories change over time. Why is the description of Jesus in the Christian bible more accurate than the…

To wineplease: Your ideas about science are way off. 1. Astronomy does not deal with the origins of the universe. That's cosmology. 2. The universe as we know it had a finite beginning, the big bang. That doesn't mean there was nothing before that. We just don't know, and people are trying to figure it out. 3. The idea of…

Can you please elaborate on why you believe what you believe? You said you've done a lot of studying. What are some of the major points?

The two events are completely different. We have artifacts from the civil war, photographs, and historical documents (which the bible is not). They're also from completely different eras of human intelligence. Isn't it a little strange that the miracles stopped when people started becoming more educated and writing things…

For alpha2omega: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Evolution_of_the_eye We'll never know with 100% certainty exactly how it happened because we weren't there to observe it, but we can make reasonable hypotheses based on available evidence. Evolution is probably the most well studied and well supported scientific theories we…

I have no problem with people who want to have some sort of religion. Fortunately I don't live in an area where religion saturates all aspects of daily life and every interaction you have with people. My major problem is when it starts to negatively affect the population. I'm specifically referring to the rejection of…

I only eat Taco Bell, so I only use sporks.

Why don't you just join one of the numerous other christian groups on MFP?

The work hasn't even been published yet. He talked about his about his ongoing work on a student radio show, and it got blown out of proportion. http://www.reuters.com/article/2013/04/12/us-france-bras-idUSBRE93B0Y020130412 Even if it were published, he can't simply publish it himself. It would have to go through the peer…

I don't think you're wearing appropriate shoes. You want something with a hard sole, but those look like running shoes.

"Sushi" actually refers to the way the rice is prepared. Sushi doesn't have to have raw fish in it.