Kidney Stones
Options
wabmester
Posts: 2,748 Member
You guys may know that I am fascinated by diet-induced physiological changes. One of those associated with ketogenic diets is kidney stone formation. They are reported frequently in studies, but I don't remember anybody reporting an incidence in this forum.
Until now!
I was feeling GREAT on Friday. Wasn't hungry at all. Went for a 3-mile run in the morning, and I still wasn't hungry until noon. Did a bunch of declined push ups as a show of strength and vigor.
Scarfed down some chicken wings for lunch, followed by some chocolate-covered almonds for an afternoon snack.
Bathroom break at around 5:45pm. Called 911 at 5:50. Stayed in the ER for about 8 hours, but some of the pain meds were pretty good, so only a few hours with some of the WORST PAIN I've ever felt.
Got a CT scan, which other than the cost and the high radiation dose, I was pretty excited about. I asked for and got copies of the digital scans. I now have some cool before and after low-carb/exercise pictures I may share later.
Gained 7 lbs on a dextrose IV drip. Probably overhydrated in an attempt to flush the stone.
The stone is still there. Small, but not small enough apparently. It lodged in the ureter, caused back-pressure, and my kidney ruptured.
They inserted a stent to bypass the stone and give my kidney a chance to heal. Hopefully within a couple weeks.
This is one N=1 experiment I didn't want to perform and wouldn't wish upon anyone.
Did diet cause it? Probably. Did constant dehydration after my runs cause it? Probably. Did the fact that my Dad had one make it more likely for me? Probably.
It turns out to be a fascinating subject, with not a lot of agreement on risk mitigation. The docs and nurses I asked about causative factors were mostly silent, but one did offer that he saw a bunch of athletes with kidney stones, many of them weightlifters taking lots of supplements. Interesting. More later.
Until now!
I was feeling GREAT on Friday. Wasn't hungry at all. Went for a 3-mile run in the morning, and I still wasn't hungry until noon. Did a bunch of declined push ups as a show of strength and vigor.
Scarfed down some chicken wings for lunch, followed by some chocolate-covered almonds for an afternoon snack.
Bathroom break at around 5:45pm. Called 911 at 5:50. Stayed in the ER for about 8 hours, but some of the pain meds were pretty good, so only a few hours with some of the WORST PAIN I've ever felt.
Got a CT scan, which other than the cost and the high radiation dose, I was pretty excited about. I asked for and got copies of the digital scans. I now have some cool before and after low-carb/exercise pictures I may share later.
Gained 7 lbs on a dextrose IV drip. Probably overhydrated in an attempt to flush the stone.
The stone is still there. Small, but not small enough apparently. It lodged in the ureter, caused back-pressure, and my kidney ruptured.
They inserted a stent to bypass the stone and give my kidney a chance to heal. Hopefully within a couple weeks.
This is one N=1 experiment I didn't want to perform and wouldn't wish upon anyone.
Did diet cause it? Probably. Did constant dehydration after my runs cause it? Probably. Did the fact that my Dad had one make it more likely for me? Probably.
It turns out to be a fascinating subject, with not a lot of agreement on risk mitigation. The docs and nurses I asked about causative factors were mostly silent, but one did offer that he saw a bunch of athletes with kidney stones, many of them weightlifters taking lots of supplements. Interesting. More later.
0
Replies
-
Ow, I'm sorry to hear about this. I didn't even know kidneys could rupture. That sounds extremely unpleasant.
Hopefully things heal up. I've mostly come to associate kidney stones with dehydration and possibly really, really overdoing it with the green vegetables (oxalate stones). Who knows if those associations are true for you. It could be any number of factors.
Rest up.0 -
Yikes! my sympathies. I had a stone before starting LCHF, it was one of the most unpleasant experiences ever. My dr suggested 100 oz. of water (2.9 L)per day . My new hobby is peeing. But no further problems1
-
Calcium-oxalate are the most common, and I eat a ton of almonds, so it could have been that. I'm learning that a specific gut bacterium is needed to help regulate oxalate, so it may be the lack of bacteria rather than the high oxalate that causes it. That could also explain the familial connection.
But another type of stone -- uric acid stones -- are more of a concern for low-carbers and other consumers of high protein (like weightlifters).0 -
Just got some blood test results. Most are in the normal range except for a couple specific to the stone and pain meds.
Ketones in the urine.
Random glucose was 125, which is "normal" but I consider it high and probably due to mild insulin resistance and the dextrose IV.
They didn't test Vit D levels, which can be causative.
Sodium and other electrolytes were normal.
Interesting to me was that uric acid was normal and urine pH was normal, but on the high-alkaline side of normal (8.0).
So I'd be surprised if it was a uric acid stone. The alkaline urine suggests calcium or phosphate:
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/211708750 -
I was advised that a yogurt daily is good for bacteria and to research anti inflammatory diet to keep my fatty liver from ever coming back
Kale is very AI, and I get one Greek yogurt daily
Fingers crossed but no fatty liver pain for 2 years
I am cautious about taking many mineral suppliants for this reason. It is a caution in ignorance since I have no solid research evidence
Best wishes.0 -
Omg, ouch! Sounds very painful. Did they say anything about recurrence or preventative measures at the hospital? You're such a trooper, I bet you're gonna research this more thoroughly than most doctors. Which gut bacteria is needed for handling the calcium-oxolate ?
Gotta tell ya, I have newfound respect for the field of nutrition. So much to learn!0 -
Oxalobacter formigenes -- apparently not found in fermented foods or probiotics.
I think most of the confusion around stones is that there are multiple causes, so docs can't give very good general advice. The kidney is like a chemistry set. The right mix of compounds, right dilution, and right pH are needed to make the stones. And whether they cause you problems or not is probably the genetic component -- things like ureter diameter.
Incidence is like 12% for men, 7% for women. More likely to happen again since I apparently have the right stuff. 0 -
Yikes! If you ever have had a kidney stone or been in the company of anyone passing one, EXTREMELY painful.
Not life threatening but bad luck your kidney ruptured.
Did they send out the stone to get it analyzed, so there is no guessing as to its composition.
Vitamin D as causation? High or low? I will have to research.
Just a thought about circulating dietary trends. HighFatLC, Intermittent Fasting, supplementing with vitamin D, lots of greens (high oxalate content), vitamin k2 supplementation (keep calcium where it belongs...), 1500 mg calcium daily calcium RDA, magnesium supplementation.
What effect positive or negative do these components have on someone who may be prone to kidney or gall stones.
Not trying to hijack the thread. I had a physical where there was a very small cyst found on my liver. They monitored it @ 6 months and a year and it turned out to be "nothing." At the yearly they made comment that I had some gall stones which they had not mentioned prior. Doesn't rule out they were not existent before. I had implemented or experimented with every one of the dietary trends I listed above in the prior two years. Whether they had any effect on the formation of my gall stones isn't clear to me. One trend that I don't follow is supplementing with calcium. I personally don't believe the high RDA or taking mega doses of calcium is beneficial.0 -
Did a quick search: kidney stones vitamin D
Interesting, first 10 articles seem to be split. For every reference I found linking Vitamin D supplementation to kidney stones, I found a contrary reference. Like everything else you research.
Here is a pretty good reference about kidney stones.
http://orthomolecular.org/resources/omns/v09n05.shtml
0 -
I saw one reference that suggested high levels of vitamin C supplementation (over 500mg/day) were linked to it. I think, if you look hard enough, you'll find a way to link just about everything to them.0
-
Yup, that article was great. Drink orange juice, but don't eat sugar. And don't eat meat. That's the problem -- different stones are formed from different compounds. The best advice is to drink a lot of water. I drink a lot of water -- that's all I drink, so probably not my problem.
My stone is still there, so no idea what it's made of, but my alkaline urine is the only thing I can go on. I need more fruit juice. 0 -
Sorry to hear about the stone but you're right they gave me great drugs!
Dilaudid I didn't care about anything after they put that in my IV. Mine was 5mm and
I had a heck of a time getting it to my bladder, still good pills for that too, Oxycodone.
They also gave me Flomax I could pee like a young man again. 
I was supposed to screen my urine to retrieve the stone. After 2 weeks and no stone
I had to have another cat scan to see where it was, no stone! Somehow I missed it.
The only recommendation was the usual "You should lose weight!"
So take it slow & get better soon.
BTW: I'm sure this is just a coincidence but I was doing physical therapy shortly
before I went to the ER.0 -
The stones supposedly take a while to form, but yeah, the dehydration from exercise may have caused it to be a problem. I think the only argument for drinking a lot of water is to increase the odds of eliminating stones before they get too big.
I'm going to try to acidify my urine -- lemon and lime mixed with water seems pretty harmless to try.
Edit:
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/17721827
Lemon juice was also found to inhibit the rate of crystal nucleation and aggregation. But orange juice did not have any effect on the calcium oxalate crystallization.0 -
Sorry, totally missed that you haven't passed the stone and totally agree sugary juices are a poor idea.
Must be an effect of the 7 screwdrivers I've had today. Hope you are able to pass and retrieve the stone without too much pain.0 -
-
For your amusement, here's a gallery of removed kidney stones:
http://www.kidneystoners.org/information/stone-gallery/
That last one was described to me by a nurse. A "staghorn" stone. In the case described by the nurse, the patient had been eating baking soda as a stomach acid home remedy and that caused the kidney stone.0 -
Your findings inspire me to squirt some lemon juice in my water bottles I take on my bike rides
0 -
If you need acid, could vinegar be of help ? I try make french vinegraitte with olive oil. My dad used that almost every day, so I prefer it. After reading dr. Fung, my vinegar consumption has gone up as well.0
-
This entire thread hurts just reading it! *hugs* to you @wabmester0
